If I wanted to visit Coco Cay, I'd cruise Royal.

[RichYak]

1 minute ago, phoenix_dream said:

As one of those who does not like the change, I can tell you my reasoning.  Not everyone will agree of course and that's fine.  I don't intend to debate it; just want to share my view.

 

First of all, every cruise line has a different vibe to it.  Celebrity has always been a bit more classy and laid back than Royal Caribbean, which in my opinion doesn't track with a stop at an island amusement park (which is how I view it).  Celebrity has also been more of an adult cruise line - don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with having some kids onboard - I sailed X with my son as a child.  But it is not designed with a whole bundle of activities like Royal ships.  I am concerned this change will bring a lot more families with young children onboard and overall the ship is not designed for large groups of kids.  It just isn't, nor was it meant to be.  And finally and probably most important, this is yet another move that seems to follow/mimic Royal - the latest before this being the attempt at menu deterioration and up-pricing for the better food options.  I liked the idea of having a choice - a certain vibe on Royal and a different vibe on Celebrity.  My favorite was obviously Celebrity.  I don't want it to turn into Royal 2.0 but it seems to be trending in that direction.  Makes me concerned about what's next.  For the first time in literally 30 years I am considering other options (for these and other reasons, like pricing).

I was surfing CC on my phone earlier and just grabbed my laptop because I wanted to type my in depth feelings on the whole CocoCay subject. Lo and behold, you literally wrote it for me. You echoed everything I wanted to write, and have done so far more eloquently than I could have. I agree with and share all of your concerns. All of Celebrity's recent tests and implemented changes are indicative of a shift in the overall brand towards a very basic mass market cruise line.

[hcat]

5 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

coco cay = a lovely day on board😀

Same for Labadee..been to both more than once. Awesome Cabana on Labadee.

 

But beach days are not the best ports or us. We would rather go to a real port where there is history,  art,  local flavor, & restaurants in addition to the`sea! The beach islands are pure profit for the Cruiseline.

 

Truth is that since Lisa was in charge and maybe before X is  being Royalized. Tis a shame...soon we will all dine at he food court!

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, D. B. said:

 

I looked it up.

 Could be that RCCL/X like having control of the dates and all the Extra fees charged for things at CoCo Cay go to them?

 We are on a Beyond cruise Jan. 2-8,2024 that has a stop scheduled at Bimini, Bahamas on Jan. 7th. I would rather go there than Nassau.   .

 

1 hour ago, bikerunner said:

Doesn’t matter the extra fees those are put onto the passenger.  A good portion of the revenue from the private islands goes directly to Royal Caribbean group.  So it’s a win for them. Personally how this whole thing was handled or better mishandled that I am much more looking at other cruise lines.

 

50 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Someone pointed out later in that thread that RCG controls operations at CocoCay. They probably pay more government taxes and fees, but it's their operation, so they're probably not paying prevailing rates for docking operations, and likely aren't paying harbor fees or pilot fees. No idea what those are, but that probably offsets a lot of the difference.

 

And, obviously, the drink and recreation revenue is theirs...

 

 

The overall point is its not necessarily cheaper for X or passengers to visit a private island vs a regular port.  When visiting a RCG owned island, RCG needs to pay insurance, island workers, various island/attraction maintenance, "free" drinks from those who have the drink package, complimentary food, etc.  Another dynamic is the weather, if its raining most of the day a ship visits, odds are passengers would spend even less.  You then have a higher % older X passengers who do not have non-adult children who probably won't spend a dime during their visit

 

Edit to add one more thing...What is possibly one of the biggest cash cows for the cruise line islands is the rate of appreciation of the island's value

Edited June 28, 2023 by NutsAboutGolf

[bikerunner]

29 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

 

 

The overall point is its not necessarily cheaper for X or passengers to visit a private island vs a regular port.  When visiting a RCG owned island, RCG needs to pay insurance, island workers, various island/attraction maintenance, "free" drinks from those who have the drink package, complimentary food, etc.  Another dynamic is the weather, if its raining most of the day a ship visits, odds are passengers would spend even less.  You then have a higher % older X passengers who do not have non-adult children who probably won't spend a dime during their visit

 

Edit to add one more thing...What is possibly one of the biggest cash cows for the cruise line islands is the rate of appreciation of the island's value

Ahh I see your point, my point was many of those costs are passed onto celebrity guests without them knowing from the higher taxes and fees added to the cruise cost.  Ohh I know this is not cheaper for cheaper option for guest but much more money maker for royal group.  

[SusieAV8R]

2 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

As one of those who does not like the change, I can tell you my reasoning.  Not everyone will agree of course and that's fine.  I don't intend to debate it; just want to share my view.

 

First of all, every cruise line has a different vibe to it.  Celebrity has always been a bit more classy and laid back than Royal Caribbean, which in my opinion doesn't track with a stop at an island amusement park (which is how I view it).  Celebrity has also been more of an adult cruise line - don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with having some kids onboard - I sailed X with my son as a child.  But it is not designed with a whole bundle of activities like Royal ships.  I am concerned this change will bring a lot more families with young children onboard and overall the ship is not designed for large groups of kids.  It just isn't, nor was it meant to be.  And finally and probably most important, this is yet another move that seems to follow/mimic Royal - the latest before this being the attempt at menu deterioration and up-pricing for the better food options.  I liked the idea of having a choice - a certain vibe on Royal and a different vibe on Celebrity.  My favorite was obviously Celebrity.  I don't want it to turn into Royal 2.0 but it seems to be trending in that direction.  Makes me concerned about what's next.  For the first time in literally 30 years I am considering other options (for these and other reasons, like pricing).

phoenix_dream, I think you pretty much hit every point I have been making to DH lately.  We like X to have a different vibe from RC.  I want to sail on X, not RC 2.0 . (Incidentally friends of mine prefer the vibe on RC and thus only cruise on that line.)

[zitsky]

I don’t mean to offend anyone but if I want RC I can go book it in 15 minutes.  We came from NCL 5 years ago and Viking.  No water slides or that kind of ship.  We like Celebrity for the staff, the food and the overall onboard experience.

[georgiaguy]

I really don’t understand the concern that Celebrity is just going to become Royal because they have private beach island day. Here is the truth, and I know because I used to work in Celebrity’s kids program. They are not going to become Royal as long as the ships are not being dramatically overhauled. Celebrity does fine with the kids counts it has and the facilities it has, but lets be honest there is not enough family entertainment, teen entertainment, small kids entertainment, to dramatically change the demographics. Plus I love Celebrity and it sounds like for many of the same reasons you do. But I also like the idea that when my kids are a little bit older (both under 5 still) having the option of booking a cruise that goes to Cococay without having to book Royal. Sure they are are trying to attract some new folks to the brand but that is what brand survival with a long view (15-20 years) requires. How can they attract new butts in the seats and expanding the brand so that the brand you love can continue to exist? 

No one has to agree with me either. Just sharing my two cents. 

[georgiaguy]

3 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I’m sure in 15 minutes he’ll be off his phone and in the pool.

Also I am a millennial and I turned 40 this year and by Celebrity standards I am the next generation and some of gen z are moving into their late 20’s. Not exactly children anymore.

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, georgiaguy said:

I really don’t understand the concern that Celebrity is just going to become Royal because they have private beach island day. Here is the truth, and I know because I used to work in Celebrity’s kids program. They are not going to become Royal as long as the ships are not being dramatically overhauled. Celebrity does fine with the kids counts it has and the facilities it has, but lets be honest there is not enough family entertainment, teen entertainment, small kids entertainment, to dramatically change the demographics. Plus I love Celebrity and it sounds like for many of the same reasons you do. But I also like the idea that when my kids are a little bit older (both under 5 still) having the option of booking a cruise that goes to Cococay without having to book Royal. Sure they are are trying to attract some new folks to the brand but that is what brand survival with a long view (15-20 years) requires. How can they attract new butts in the seats and expanding the brand so that the brand you love can continue to exist? 

No one has to agree with me either. Just sharing my two cents. 

You worked for Celebrity.  Do you know their plans for the next 5 years?

 

Take one example.  Suppose Celebrity made the Solarium kid friendly.  Is that a positive?

 

Lots of posters say “we need younger pax”.  Well what do younger pax have?  Children.  Therefore they need facilities for those children.

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

Also I am a millennial and I turned 40 this year and by Celebrity standards I am the next generation and some of gen z are moving into their late 20’s. Not exactly children anymore.

Sorry.  Was that supposed to be a picture of a 40 year old man????

 

Do 40 year olds have children that want to be on cruise ships?  I would guess so.

Edited June 29, 2023 by zitsky

[georgiaguy]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

You worked for Celebrity.  Do you know their plans for the next 5 years?

 

I left the company about a decade ago so cant say I do know the plans, but I also see the only major change to the kids program since I left is to rebrand from “Fun Factory” to “Camp at Sea” They seem to be tweaking around the edge not doing a major overhaul. But again just my two cents. Maybe I am wrong.

Also probably a little sensitive about the age thing. I get tired of hearing folks talk about “millennials” like we are children still. Like I said I am 40 now have a masters degree and 11 years in my career field.

[Moochi]

Just treat it like a Nassau day. The only downside is that Luminae is not open for lunch.

[markeb]

59 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

 

I left the company about a decade ago so cant say I do know the plans, but I also see the only major change to the kids program since I left is to rebrand from “Fun Factory” to “Camp at Sea” They seem to be tweaking around the edge not doing a major overhaul. But again just my two cents. Maybe I am wrong.

Also probably a little sensitive about the age thing. I get tired of hearing folks talk about “millennials” like we are children still. Like I said I am 40 now have a masters degree and 11 years in my career field.

 

Bingo. I just hit 60. I'm theoretically a Boomer, but in the transition from boomer to Gen X. I identify much more with X and bizarrely millennials than boomers. And boomers who don't remember how their parents felt about the Beatles are truly bizarre to me. I'm going to London next week, as much as anything to see Springsteen in Hyde Park. Three weeks ago I drug my wife to a Paramor show (which she was shocked to actually love!). I'm looking at YouTube tonight and wishing (although my back would be killing me) I could have been in Glastonbury last week to see the Foos. No interest in a piano bar. I'd much rather hear "All My Life" or even better "You Oughta Know" (uncensored version)!

 

40 year old millennials aren't kids. Many of them delayed starting a family, so they are older than people on this thread give them credit for, and may well have money to spend on cruises and are at a point where they likely have time to cruise. I'm retired Army and was a Lieutenant Colonel at 40! Millennials will age into Celebrity where boomers are going to age out. If you're a company with a long term view, you need to address your growing future market.

 

Anyway, this was a thread about an island stop...

[seeyouinthesun]

I’m pretty sure Coco cay can have two ships there at a time. I can’t imagine going on a Celebrity cruise and having to share the Private Island with 8,000+ other people. But I am glad this is an option that many will enjoy. I’ll be waving from ship. 

[Cap_D]

100% agree with @georgiaguy and @markeb!  We don't need or want Royal, but our family does want a nice beach stop, good food, service, decor, etc.  CocoCay may help, and can't be any worse. 

 

Also, not sure how skipping Cozumel, Costa Maya, Key West, or whichever stop gets nixed for CocoCay is a major loss to a cultural or exploratory epiphany.   Many have multiple ships, too.  No one expressing concern is saying anything about what is being lost here.  Because, it's hard to see anything not being improved upon or being the same.  Is anyone going to miss one more Effy, Senor Frogs and friends, Diamond International, souvenirs made anywhere but Caribbean, stray animals, a beach with beggars and peddlers, beach clubs that need a fresh coat of paint, excursions on old busses to multicolored signs with the name of the port, a rum tasting (when the rum is actually made in a factory), and so on...?   Those will all still be at the other ports (with several other shops), or other vacations. 

 

CocoCay adds what could be a very nice beach or pool option, may get the few kids on board off the ship (tired out and away from the precious Solarium), and many of the same water sports that exist at other ports without the downsides.   

 

Sure, there's a clean pool, lazy river, water slide or two, a burger (hopefully better than Mast Grill), and some bars, but that also exists at every higher end warm weather resort, including the Hyatts, Four Seasons and Ritz Carltons that have similar design asetheics and vibes as many Celebrity ships (Edge class, at least).  (If you don't want to see a slide or two from the ship, look the other way, or book on Eleuthera (great beaches, few kids, cheaper than Celebrity, and authentic), or one of the prized ports being dropped for CocoCay.). 

 

CocoCay doesn't magically mean cruisers who would be on Royal will instantly switch.  Btw, they also booked already.  And, that would not be good planning especially at the pace of new capacity  with more Oasis and Icon on the way, and Ascent and the 5th E class potential. 

 

As mentioned, Celebrity is not for every family with kids that want action activities 24/7, and the ships are not designed that way.  That message is not hard to get from marketing, influencers, or TAs.  It just wouldn't work well, but for families that have kids that want a more elevated experience ship wide (don't need an arcade, or Johnny Rockets, an aggressive cruise activities team, etc) it's a nice alternative to spending money and time at land based experiences. 

 

In fact, Celebrity (especially in Retreat, and when bfast is from Luminae) can be on par with some of the nicer Caribbean experiences available whether to families or not, except what has been missing was a half way decent beach and pool option.  One could contend some of the ports and options detracted from the Celebrity experience. 

 

So, for all the its turning into Royal concerns, one may also find some that are attracted to these itineraries may be more affluent and demanding higher quality than ever before, kids included, if any.  (Kids know what good food and service is too, btw). 

 

And, worse case, if there is a swarm of families or kids, it might even see the OVC have to improve at dinner with a greater number of users (It's already sometimes just sugar desserts, pasta and pizza, so is having a few protein items really a concern?), some of the music choices being brought forward (Sweet Caroline might fall by the wayside), and other upgrades where there are now valid concerns about downgrades.   

 

Regardless, having been on two Edge class ships at peak Spring Break for Easter, there have not been a lot of kids, and those that are on the ship have been as well or better behaved than the adults.  That same load or less can be absorbed without issue.  Pools were near empty by 4 pm every day, and only  congestion observed were result of mobility needs or smokers by Mast Grill.   And, it has been evident the parents are aware of and could have selected Royal (which with 3k more passengers can support more food venues and activities, but is designed to appeal to a more mass market audience, even the suites aren't that fancy and most don't have a dedicated restaurant access for convenience).  

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Cap_D

[C4HCG]

I am at a loss why one ship out of the fleet stopping at Coco Cay turns Celebrity into a line on par with Royal.  Some of the conclusions some people here have drawn are plain silly. We have 2 sailings next year, one of which has been affected by this change as we will now be on Beyond rather than Reflection. Are we worried that we will experience a Celebrity different to what we have before, 100% not. Our only concern on any cruise is we have good weather, and polite and considerate fellow cruisers. 

[Guest]

I’m 29 and Celebrity are my cruise line of choice. I love the idea of a Coco Cay stop (especially if it’s instead of Nassau) 
 

For me it’s a better version of Costa Maya. A beach, bars and a waterpark you have to pay to use. However at Coco Cay, although you also have to pay to use the water slides,  the beach is nicer and the food and drinks are included (if you have the drinks package). 
 

No one is forcing you to go down the water slides… treat it as a beach port. 
 

And it’s not going to attract hoards of families. RCI, Carnival, MSC, Disney and Norwegian have that covered. 
 

It’s about appealing to all people on board. Do I want to attend guest lectures? No, but a lot of passengers do. Do I want to go to down water slides at Coco Cay? Yes, but lots of passengers won’t. 

 

 

 

[Gracie115]

Ah Princess..... you look better & better.

[Mark_K]

38 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

Ah Princess..... you look better & better.

Princess has way more cruises stopping at Princess Cays than Celebrity will have stopping at Coco Cay.

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, Glitterati said:

I’m 29 and Celebrity are my cruise line of choice. I love the idea of a Coco Cay stop (especially if it’s instead of Nassau) 
 

For me it’s a better version of Costa Maya. A beach, bars and a waterpark you have to pay to use. However at Coco Cay, although you also have to pay to use the water slides,  the beach is nicer and the food and drinks are included (if you have the drinks package). 
 

No one is forcing you to go down the water slides… treat it as a beach port. 
 

And it’s not going to attract hoards of families. RCI, Carnival, MSC, Disney and Norwegian have that covered. 
 

It’s about appealing to all people on board. Do I want to attend guest lectures? No, but a lot of passengers do. Do I want to go to down water slides at Coco Cay? Yes, but lots of passengers won’t. 

 

 I don’t cruise X for water slides.  Previous poster claimed an island with 8000 people is “affluent”?

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, Mark_K said:

Princess has way more cruises stopping at Princess Cays than Celebrity will have stopping at Coco Cay.

If we don’t like the idea we’re elitist.  If we like the idea we somehow know exactly what Celebrity will do.

[EatonDoolittle]

1 hour ago, Mark_K said:

Princess has way more cruises stopping at Princess Cays than Celebrity will have stopping at Coco Cay.

 

Indeed. Having been to both, CoCo Cay is as nice or nicer than Princess Cay. But with a dock.

For those who have never been, yes, you walk past the entrance to the water park when you arrive, but after that, it's a non issue. 

The rest of the island is beach options, restaurants, vendor kiosks, walking paths, just like any other private island. 

 

Much ado about nothing, but the pearl clutching here has been fun to read about. 

 

 

[prmssk]

2 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

Ah Princess..... you look better & better.

Have you seen what they recently revealed for the top deck of the Sun Princess (which probably will also be on the Star Princess)?  If I replaced the word Coco Cay with Sun Princess in this thread, I would be on a Princess board (just a week or two earlier).

[prmssk]

8 minutes ago, EatonDoolittle said:

 

Indeed. Having been to both, CoCo Cay is as nice or nicer than Princess Cay. But with a dock.

For those who have never been, yes, you walk past the entrance to the water park when you arrive, but after that, it's a non issue. 

The rest of the island is beach options, restaurants, vendor kiosks, walking paths, just like any other private island. 

 

Much ado about nothing, but the pearl clutching here has been fun to read about. 

 

 

 I don't mind Coco Cay.  I do enjoy a private island with a beach.  But having been at both Princess Cays and Coco Cay in the last year, I personally would choose Princess Cays because I didn't have any issues finding a quiet spot.  By lunch time on our last visit to Coco Cay, I couldn't find quiet anywhere. Hopefully Hideaway Beach will improve that. 

[NMTraveller]

Fake islands and fake balconies?  If I go to a real island I can sample the food,  go shopping, learn about the culture and stay away from the water slides and teens running around the halls at 2 AM.

Edited June 29, 2023 by NMTraveller