Is it now "rude" to be five-ten minutes late to dinner in the MDR?

[capriccio]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:37 PM, screwsmcernst said:

We always eat at set dining times, whether early or late, so I am going to pose a question because I genuinely do not know the answer.   

 

If you make a reservation for anytime dining, how late can you be before they give up your table?

On a Princess cruise last spring with 6 family members having our own table I specifically asked that question and the answer was 10 minutes.  It was never a problem.  We all met for cocktails before dinner and went to the MDR together at our chosen time.  I did make sure to inform our wait staff and the host the few nights (it was a 28 day cruise) that we had alternate arrangements and not to hold the table for us if they needed it.  The waiters told us the next night no one was seated there. 

[ldubs]

18 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

If you are cruising on a Walmart of the Seas mass market ships, where they feed you on a factory production line schedule, it makes good sense to show up on time.

 

If you choose to travel on a more civilized cruise line, where people get to choose what time they want to start eating, there is really no such thing as being late - unless you promised to meet someone for dinner.

 

Not sure which quality in your mind as Walmarts of the seas, but the four mass market lines I'm familiar with all have flexible dining options. Having only set dining times disappeared years ago.   I take it your cruise line does not have a set dining time option.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

In college, I had one professor who had a rule:  if he was not there by 5 minutes after start time, we could leave.  If he was there and you were not there by 5 minutes after start time, he'd shut he door.

 

I follow that lead.  Once I'll be OK, but after that one, you are just plain rude.  

 

There is always the chance that due to a particular circumstance a person might unavoidably show up late, and in that case I wouldn't count that as rude.  In the case of the OP, however, it was planned lateness, and that is always rude.

 

I'll also throw into the rudeness pot the times people aren't going to come to the MDR and don't inform their tablemates or staff.

 

I'll pass over the rudeness of people putting down other people because they shop at or cruise on Walmart.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

There is always the chance that due to a particular circumstance a person might unavoidably show up late, and in that case I wouldn't count that as rude.  In the case of the OP, however, it was planned lateness, and that is always rude.

 

I'll also throw into the rudeness pot the times people aren't going to come to the MDR and don't inform their tablemates or staff.

 

I'll pass over the rudeness of people putting down other people because they shop at or cruise on Walmart.

I have not noticed anyone being put down simply “…because they shop at or cruise on Walmart.”   Of course there are rude people who happen to do both- but without causality claimed. Sailing on mass market lines does not cause bad behavior.  The one possible link which you seem to seek might be related to the lack of dress codes on mass market lines. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[hancock]

Did a transatlantic a few years ago.  We were at a table for 8. One couple came to dinner 30 minutes or more late every night.  We has to wait for them to catch up.  That was definitely rude.

[Hlitner]

10 hours ago, hancock said:

Did a transatlantic a few years ago.  We were at a table for 8. One couple came to dinner 30 minutes or more late every night.  We has to wait for them to catch up.  That was definitely rude.

The solution, for us, is quite simple.  We no longer do Fixed Dining (on any ship) but simply take advantage of Open Dining, Anytime Dining, Dining My Way, etc.  Depending on the cruise line (we cruise on many different lines) we make a reservation (usually around 7:30) or don't.  When we get to the host table we simply indicate that we are happy to share a larger table.  On most nights, we find ourselves with other like-minded cruisers and have decent dinner conversation.  After a few nights we generally make new friends among the diners and will sometimes agree to meet (outside the MDR or for cocktails) before dinner.  It often happens that we eventually form our own group with which we dine on some nights.

 

Even with fixed dining, if you get a bad table (or tablemates) you can simply go to the Maitre'd and asked to be changed.

 

Hank

[Joebucks]

Not only is the hack "rude," but it is completely wrong. We nearly always arrive on time, and if anything, it speeds up our service. When we are there before the staff's other tables, they can take our order before the masses arrive.

 

If I had to guess, the people that show up late, are the same ones that complain dinner service took too long. 

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I have not noticed anyone being put down simply “…because they shop at or cruise on Walmart.”   Of course there are rude people who happen to do both- but without causality claimed. Sailing on mass market lines does not cause bad behavior.  The one possible link which you seem to seek might be related to the lack of dress codes on mass market lines. 

 

A small handful of posters seem to enjoy making haughty posts dripping disdain for mass market lines.   No matter the topic.  The intent is clear and the wording, if not rude, is certainly intended to be provoking.    Makes one wonder what underlying issues they might have that causes this need.    

[klfrodo]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

A small handful of posters seem to enjoy making haughty posts dripping disdain for mass market lines.   No matter the topic.  The intent is clear and the wording, if not rude, is certainly intended to be provoking.    Makes one wonder what underlying issues they might have that causes this need.    

Thank you for putting this into words. I do sail on the mass market lines. I could afford to sail on the higher end lines but choose not to. Mostly due to being uncomfortable in a higher end setting. Even when we cruise with Royal, we do sail in a GS or higher. I enjoy the extra room and a few of the amenities. I even feel uncomfortable in the Concierge/Suite lounge. For some reason I feel as though I don't belong. So, I asked ChatGPT to help me put into words why I don't feel comfortable.

This is how AI explained it.

"I often reflect on my journey from a very humble, if not impoverished, background to where I am today, having achieved financial success. While I'm incredibly proud of my accomplishments, I sometimes find it challenging to connect with those who lead lavish lifestyles. It's as if I'm straddling two worlds, one of hardship and resilience and the other of opulence and excess, and navigating the contrast can be quite unsettling. It's not that I'm ungrateful for my success, but rather, I'm still grounded in the values and experiences of my past. This contrast between my roots and my present reality sometimes leaves me feeling like I'm on the outside looking in when I'm surrounded by extravagant displays of wealth."

 

Yes, in my mind, even the Concierge lounge counts for lavish lifestyle. If I'm uncomfortable there, can you imagine if I were to sail on Seabourn or Cunard?

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

A small handful of posters seem to enjoy making haughty posts dripping disdain for mass market lines.   No matter the topic.  The intent is clear and the wording, if not rude, is certainly intended to be provoking.    Makes one wonder what underlying issues they might have that causes this need.    

While I occasionally sail on mass market lines, I generally prefer the smaller ships operated by what I suppose are called upscale.  They can call any ports not accessible by larger ships, they generally  provide better food and service (which is, of course, available on mass market ships if you pay for the upscale accommodations and alternative dining  - which winds up costing you as much, or even possibly more, than the smaller upscale ships) and then you still have to deal with the crowds.  If I liked lavish production shows, water slides, skating rinks, I might feel differently - I just don’t. Aesthetically, I prefer smaller ships - which look like ships rather than huge floating apartment buildings.  I think the painted hulls of NCL ships are ugly.  I prefer listening to a string quartet to attending a garish production with a thousand or so others.  I like being treated as an adult by a line which allows unlimited bottles of wine for consumption in my cabin.  I admit to liking being recognized as an individual by staff who provide good service.
 

Of course you will find boorish blowhards on ships of all sizes and lines - but it is not unlikely that I will have more in common with people who have similar tastes.   I cannot help feeling that there is an occasional display of reverse snobbishness (perhaps just envy) by mega-ship afficianados on these threads.

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

While I occasionally sail on mass market lines, I generally prefer the smaller ships operated by what I suppose are called upscale.  They can call any ports not accessible by larger ships, they generally  provide better food and service (which is, of course, available on mass market ships if you pay for the upscale accommodations and alternative dining  - which winds up costing you as much, or even possibly more, than the smaller upscale ships) and then you still have to deal with the crowds.  If I liked lavish production shows, water slides, skating rinks, I might feel differently - I just don’t. Aesthetically, I prefer smaller ships - which look like ships rather than huge floating apartment buildings.  I think the painted hulls of NCL ships are ugly.  I prefer listening to a string quartet to attending a garish production with a thousand or so others.  I like being treated as an adult by a line which allows unlimited bottles of wine for consumption in my cabin.  I admit to liking being recognized as an individual by staff who provide good service.
 

Of course you will find boorish blowhards on ships of all sizes and lines - but it is not unlikely that I will have more in common with people who have similar tastes.   I cannot help feeling that there is an occasional display of reverse snobbishness (perhaps just envy) by mega-ship afficianados on these threads.

 

Saying what one enjoys and why is useful and perhaps even enlightening.  It could help someone make a decision.  That is entirely different than constant, post-after-post derisive quips about what others prefer.   

   

 

[Kristelle]

^^ I agree.

 

 vast difference between saying what you prefer or can afford  or see as advantages of something vs disdainful sort of comments about alternatives

 

I have observed quite a bit of what ldubs described in my relatively short time here.

 

and I say that with no horse in the race of ocean cruisers therefore no bias either way - being a river cruiser person myself

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Saying what one enjoys and why is useful and perhaps even enlightening.  It could help someone make a decision.  That is entirely different than constant, post-after-post derisive quips about what others prefer.   

   

 

I do not recall seeing, or (if you are referring to me) making “…constant, post-after-post derisive quips about what others prefer.”  

I hope you are not obsessing about objective comments about the quality of the experience on some lines.

[Kristelle]

No the comments were not objective ones about perceived quality of experience but snooty put downs about alternatives.

 

I can't recall who said them all so I am not referring to anyone in particular. 

 

[K32682]

The line doesn't matter to me. Big boat, small boat, low cost, high cost are secondary to where the boat is going. Cruises to desirable destinations on a "mass market" line are more appealing than rubbing shoulders with the elites and upper crust going to places in which I have no interest.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by K32682

[sparks1093]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:11 PM, navybankerteacher said:

I do not recall seeing, or (if you are referring to me) making “…constant, post-after-post derisive quips about what others prefer.”  

I hope you are not obsessing about objective comments about the quality of the experience on some lines.

It is entirely possible that you have the poster in question blocked, which means that you wouldn't see any of his posts but when he (and others) uses the term "Walmart of the Seas" it likely isn't meant as a complimentary term. He does seem to use that term frequently. He is quoted in post 52.

Edited October 30, 2023 by sparks1093

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

It is entirely possible that you have the poster in question blocked, which means that you wouldn't see any of his posts but when he (and others) uses the term "Walmart of the Seas" it likely isn't meant as a complimentary term. He does seem to use that term frequently. He is quoted in post 52.

Of course, the term “Walmart of the Seas” is not complimentary - but it does effectively convey something of the image of a large scale operation providing something of a discount product for the mass market.  Perhaps for ships with 5,000 or more passengers “Costco of the Seas” might be more appropriate.

 

While I occasionally sail on some large (which I would define as 2,500 passengers) mass market ships, given the right itinerary, I do prefer the smaller somewhat more upscale ships sailed by Seaborne, Azamara  and Oceania —- just as when it comes to buying a suit (yes, some of us do wear suits on occasion) I am more inclined to find it at Jos. A. Banks or the like than at a Walmart.

[sparks1093]

34 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, the term “Walmart of the Seas” is not complimentary - but it does effectively convey something of the image of a large scale operation providing something of a discount product for the mass market.  Perhaps for ships with 5,000 or more passengers “Costco of the Seas” might be more appropriate.

 

While I occasionally sail on some large (which I would define as 2,500 passengers) mass market ships, given the right itinerary, I do prefer the smaller somewhat more upscale ships sailed by Seaborne, Azamara  and Oceania —- just as when it comes to buying a suit (yes, some of us do wear suits on occasion) I am more inclined to find it at Jos. A. Banks or the like than at a Walmart.

There is, of course, a difference between effectively conveying the image of a large scale operation and casting dispersions at the customers of said operation. The cruise industry has plenty of choices to offer and one should find the line that fits their needs. Surely we can do that without casting dispersions at anyone that makes a choice different from our own. For what it's worth I've never seen a suit being sold at a Walmart and while I have purchased some clothing from there over the years it has been a while. And some of us who do choose to sail on the main stream lines also own suits and wear them onboard (I've even been known to wear my tux🤣). 

[EatonDoolittle]

My initial thought was that this was a post made simply meant to stir things up, and I stick to that assessment. 

It's a week later, OP has not returned, but there are 3 pages of comments. 

 

S/he has succeeded. 

[cruisemom42]

12 minutes ago, EatonDoolittle said:

My initial thought was that this was a post made simply meant to stir things up, and I stick to that assessment. 

It's a week later, OP has not returned, but there are 3 pages of comments. 

 

S/he has succeeded. 

 

S/he responded -- see post #25

[Kristelle]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, the term “Walmart of the Seas” is not complimentary

 

 

why use it then?

 

surely we could all use neutral and respectful terms about alternative choices.

 

 

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, Kristelle said:

 

 

why use it then?

 

surely we could all use neutral and respectful terms about alternative choices.

 

 

 

 

Because the expression describes the impression one has of the line: a very large provider of discount product.

[sparks1093]

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Because the expression describes the impression one has of the line: a very large provider of discount product.

That would be fine, but the people that use the term are using it about the customers of the line, not the line itself. Let's face it, the main stream cruise lines are simply a mirror of our society today. Many people don't consider 5 to 10 minutes late being a big deal because they are focused completely on themselves and not others.

[Kristelle]

48 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Because the expression describes the impression one has of the line: a very large provider of discount product.

 

I don't think that is what the expression entails - seems more like a deliberate put down to me - or deliberately ' non complimentary'  if you want to justify it that way. 

 

Interestingly te post calling out the haughty  disdainful posting got 10 likes, more than I have seen for any other post on any thread.

 

Clearly this is something others have noticed even if you somehow have not. 

[Z'Loth]

17 hours ago, EatonDoolittle said:

My initial thought was that this was a post made simply meant to stir things up, and I stick to that assessment. 

It's a week later, OP has not returned, but there are 3 pages of comments. 

 

S/he has succeeded. 

 

This gentleman is around, just having to put out fires at work, so he is lurking at the moment. Is it January yet? My cruise is coming up in January. Also, I'm not exactly a new cruiser around here. 

 

Maybe I should have used a different word than "rude". There are a bunch of alternatives available. Barbaric? Uncultured? It's about the same as everyone milling around waiting for the MDR doors to open, with the visions of an old Mervyns store commercial dancing in my head... "OpenOpenOpen". And, for what? An extra minute or two to stare at the menu while the hard-working wait staff is scurrying around to fill everyone's water glass? 

 

Now, lets get something perfectly clear, especially to those who are on Lombardi time... what's the point when you are on vacation? For goodness sakes, relax, but be respectful. There are several points where timing is critical, such as boarding a plane, checking on board ship, or returning to the ship on time after a shore day. And, yes, entering the theater... any theater... when the show has already started isn't a good idea either, but usually the ship's theater opens up a few minutes prior to the show. And, being "fashionably late" to make that unwanted-yet-annoying "grand entrance" while your table mates have been wondering where you have been for the past fifteen minutes is bad manners.

 

Punctuality is a good thing in business. Even then, because people are booked in back-to-back meetings that tend to run over, meetings start a few minutes late. I try to be respectful of peoples time and end my meetings at 1 minute early.