Is tipping mandatory

[glentally]

When can I flat out tell them to not include or apply to my room/account..

[Debgra6057]

Being an Aussie, we don't usually tip. Mainly because our pay rates are quite decent, so it has never been customary to tip.  However, on our cruises, we do go to the service desk on the first day and ask for all gratuities to be removed.  We will always give a large sum to our room steward on our last day to thank them for looking after us so well. But please tell me, how would the steward know if you have or have not had gratuities removed?  

[Another_Critic]

10 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

But please tell me, how would the steward know if you have or have not had gratuities removed?  

They get a report.

[Debgra6057]

By whom and why, I wonder? And what purpose does prove. If the steward or waiter knows they are not getting a gratuity from me, and they do a crummy job, they then risk reprimand if I complain.  So no advantage to them.

Anyway, I've always done my cruise tipping this way, to reward the people I choose to.  

[PhillyFan33579]

12 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

By whom and why, I wonder? And what purpose does prove. If the steward or waiter knows they are not getting a gratuity from me, and they do a crummy job, they then risk reprimand if I complain.  So no advantage to them.

Anyway, I've always done my cruise tipping this way, to reward the people I choose to.  

You are screwing over crew members who depend on tips, but who work behind the scenes and never interact with passengers. However, under the current system you aren’t doing anything wrong, unless it bothers you that you are taking advantage of hard working crew members. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by PhillyFan33579

[Tatka]

32 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

Being an Aussie, we don't usually tip. Mainly because our pay rates are quite decent, so it has never been customary to tip.  However, on our cruises, we do go to the service desk on the first day and ask for all gratuities to be removed.  We will always give a large sum to our room steward on our last day to thank them for looking after us so well. But please tell me, how would the steward know if you have or have not had gratuities removed?  

 

So why are you doing this on cruises?

 

Royal and other lines are using autogratuities to compensate crew well just like in Australia.

 

The only reason it is not collected together with a fare ...collected money are not counted towards the profit and no taxes are paid on them.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Tatka

[Debgra6057]

Then why don't the cruise lines pay their staff a decent minimum wage? Why call it a tip anyway if it is not compulsory, only suggested.  Maybe they should just include the figures into the fares and be done with it, divide the percentage up for staff later after the cruise.  I'm not going on with this any  longer.  There are a lot of people who don't pay gratuities, they just don't want to be known.  I understand the reasoning behind it, but just have not known tipping as a usual part of everyday life.

Lets just agree to disagree, as is our right to. And sorry if I have offended anybody out there.

[Coralc]

33 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

By whom and why, I wonder? And what purpose does prove. If the steward or waiter knows they are not getting a gratuity from me, and they do a crummy job, they then risk reprimand if I complain.  So no advantage to them.

Anyway, I've always done my cruise tipping this way, to reward the people I choose to.  

I believe on our Transpacific, that the Australians told us that gratuities were included in their cruise fare, as sold. The price was all in. Nothing additional was taken out onboard. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Coralc

[Another_Critic]

7 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

... but just have not known tipping as a usual part of everyday life.

 

Americans [usually] drive on the right side of the road.  Is it okay if we drive on the right side of the road when visiting Australia?  😄

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Another_Critic

[Missusdubbya]

52 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

Being an Aussie, we don't usually tip. Mainly because our pay rates are quite decent, so it has never been customary to tip.  However, on our cruises, we do go to the service desk on the first day and ask for all gratuities to be removed. 

Just FYI in case you don’t realise, on RCI and Celebrity your gratuities are included in your cruise fare when booking on the Australian website. 
 

I must add here that I am Australian and I always tip where it is culturally expected - aligning with other cultures is part of responsible travel.

[Missusdubbya]

4 minutes ago, Coralc said:

I believe on our Transpacific, that the Australians told us that gratuities were included in their cruise fare, as sold. The price was all in. Nothing additional was taken out onboard. 

correct

[Debgra6057]

Well now, I did not realise this, so thank you for sharing.  I will still give my Steward an extra tip, as I always do.  Happy cruising people.

[gmerick]

A bit of research -- 

Source: RCCL Collective Bargaining Agreement (crew employment "contract").

Source: Several lawsuits filed by crew members in US courts over pay issues.

Crew pay is composed of:  A Guaranteed minimum salary.  A guaranteed minimum from guaranteed pooled gratuities - both prepaid gratuities and gratuities added to passenger charge accounts (both the 18%, and any additional added by passengers).

Additional payment based on crew member "points" from the same gratuities pool, if the pool amount overage (based on points) exceeds the contract guaranteed minimum.

 

The lawsuits focused on the addition tips the cabin stewards and waiters collected as cash tips directly from customers.  These tips did not go to the pool.  In several lawsuits, the crew member's claim indicated these cash tips exceeded the guaranteed/pool payment by 3 times or more.

 

The pooled tips were accounted for fleet wide, and divided up (by points) monthly.  The prepaid gratuities, and charge account gratuities were not allocated to the individual providing service, but pooled fleet wide.

 

I can get a close approximation of how many "points" cabin stewards and dining waiters have on their contracts by referring to the several tip breakdown sheets posted on other threads.  

 

Conclusion:  Barring widespread passenger action to remove prepaid gratuities, crew in positions not customarily given cash tips directly from passengers will see very little change in the pooled gratuity portion of their pay.  If 10% of passengers declined automatic gratuities, that portion of crew pay would be reduced by somewhat less than 10%, as RCCL provides a guaranteed minimum which is unaffected.  If passengers removing prepaid gratuities still give as tips the full value of what RCCL would have charged in addition to the customary bit extra to waiters, bartenders, cabin stewards, then tipping will revert to the good old days where tips were an expression of appreciation for good service and going the extra mile.

 

Meanwhile----  I'm going to leave prepaid gratuities as they are, and continue to hand out that bit extra when my cruise is made more pleasant.

 

[Tatka]

47 minutes ago, Debgra6057 said:

Then why don't the cruise lines pay their staff a decent minimum wage? Why call it a tip anyway if it is not compulsory, only suggested.  Maybe they should just include the figures into the fares and be done with it, divide the percentage up for staff later after the cruise.  I'm not going on with this any  longer.  There are a lot of people who don't pay gratuities, they just don't want to be known.  I understand the reasoning behind it, but just have not known tipping as a usual part of everyday life.

Lets just agree to disagree, as is our right to. And sorry if I have offended anybody out there.

 

Why do you think they do not pay decent wages?

 

I explained above. They collect auto-gratuity and pay decent wages. Maybe not your idea of decent wages, but they usually come from countries where they get 4-5 times less for identical work.

 

Autogratuities are collected separately to separate this amount from profit (which is declared to shareholders) and company does not pay taxes on them. This way they have MORE money to distribute.

[MommaBear55]

1 hour ago, Debgra6057 said:

Being an Aussie, we don't usually tip. Mainly because our pay rates are quite decent, so it has never been customary to tip.  However, on our cruises, we do go to the service desk on the first day and ask for all gratuities to be removed.  We will always give a large sum to our room steward on our last day to thank them for looking after us so well. But please tell me, how would the steward know if you have or have not had gratuities removed?  

I had understood that the gratuities were wrapped into your price when you booked in Australia. Is that not so?

The staff gets a list (or used to get a list) of who paid their gratuities automatically. I actually saw it posted on a bulletin board when I did a galley tour. 

[crazyank]

8 hours ago, glentally said:

When can I flat out tell them to not include or apply to my room/account..

Tipping is NOT mandatory except for the percentage added to drinks,  pay restaurants, etc.

You can tell Guest services to remove the daily auto-gratuities at any time during your cruise. Don't let anybody guilt trip you into paying the auto-grats if you don't want to.

[Mick B]

Hi,

I am from the UK and normally we do not do tips but pay in full.

Some places, such as restaurants are starting to impose tips when paying the bill and some of those restaurants do not really provide a good service that deserves one so in those circumstances I ask for it to be removed and never return as there is always plenty to choose from.

 

However, when it comes to us going on our cruise each year, we always cruise with RCI. Not just because of the loyalty program, or the ports of call, but because we like what they do for us in general.

We always pay our gratuities up front and that way we have done our bit for the crew.

 

We do not demand anything special when on board, and I have witnessed many people complaining about trivial things such as waiting in a queue for 5 minutes to be given a table at My Time Dinning - Yes they wasted a further 15 minutes of their holiday time at Guest Services to complain about waiting for 5 minutes in a queue at the restaurant - go figure!

 

Like it has been said, Gratuities are not mandatory and you do not have to pay them, but if you are not receiving the service that you think you should, then going to guest services as soon as possible is normally the best way to resolve it.

Removing gratuities means that other crew members who may have done a good or even better job for you may lose out.

Also, as for your cabin steward, remember if you remove your gratuities and he is informed, then he will most likely still do a good job - firstly because that's what he is employed to do and secondly, because he will be hoping that at the end of your cruise you will slip him some cash - unless its him you are not happy with, of course!

 

The problem for me when it comes to slipping crew some cash is where do you start?, and I mean who do you choose? Do you give it a bar tender who makes your favourite drink? What about the waiters in the MDR who sort out your dietary requirements - the list goes on and I have seen people throwing money around at just about everyone - which is great if you have it!

But if you don't then choosing who can be very difficult.

 

So, thats why I pay upfront - that way everyone who works onboard should get a equal amount of my money.

Obviously if someone really does go out of their way to assist us, then I am more than happy to give them a extra bit of cash.

 

I have spoken with loads of crew over the years and they have all told me roughly the same story. They get good pay from the cruise line compared to what they would have got if they did a similar job back in their own country. They have their own area on the ship where most things are free and even drinks are served at a reduced rate at their own bar area, but they normally choose to carry out additional work for several more hours most days to top up their pay in order to send money back home to their families and also because it passes the time too. They can also get off the ship at most ports to explore for a few hours when not asked to do other duties.

 

Mick.

 

[gavvy]

Another tipping thread yay!

 

Some will claim the moral high ground and demand you keep the tips in place and must tip extra as that's the only view that counts, others say keep the tips if you wish or remove them up to you - Royal actually do give you a choice so its actually up to you what you wish to do.  It's customary to reward good service, but its a personal thing that's down to the individual.

 

The tipping pool thing is a very murky grey area where nobody really knows what goes on, and I have asked various staff members if they get a list of those who have taken off the stateroom tips and they had no idea what I meant.

 

I would do what you feel comfortable with.

[livingonthebeach]

6 hours ago, Tatka said:

 

Why do you think they do not pay decent wages?

 

I explained above. They collect auto-gratuity and pay decent wages. Maybe not your idea of decent wages, but they usually come from countries where they get 4-5 times less for identical work.

 

Autogratuities are collected separately to separate this amount from profit (which is declared to shareholders) and company does not pay taxes on them. This way they have MORE money to distribute.

They don’t pay U.S. taxes on any monies they collect as they are incorporated in Liberia to avoid all U.S.taxes as well as labor laws. The ships are registered in the Bahamas.
 

Only the corporate office is based in Miami - the executives and other workers at headquarters I would assume pay U.S. taxes on their earned income and bonuses.

Other than that and port taxes they pay to ports of call, that’s about all the taxes they pay. If there’s a shortage for crew pay, the shortfall could be taken out of the savings they realize by not paying U.S. corporate taxes, rather than the pockets of passengers already paying lofty fares.

[glentally]

Being the OP I would like to thank Debgra6057 for jumping in the firepit for me. 

 

Someone said the whole thing is murky with mixed info from various people and assorted rules with how the cruise lines apply your tips.  Let me add to the murkiness. 

 

I was on a MSC cruise this year and another "tip expert" told me MSC uses the tips for their wages first and if the tips are not enough to meet the contracted wage MSC adds more.

 

I did the folded $20's in my hand and shook the hands of the appropriate people.  I travel internationally a lot and am amazed at the pleasure I see from the recipient receiving tips when not expected or larger than the normal.  Isn't that what tipping is?  I'm sorry but tipping the guy or girl running the dishwashing machine in the bowels of the ship doesn't make a lot of sense nor should I feel bad. When I was 12 and cleaning the bathroom and floors at the local restaurant no one shared their tips.  I worked hard, moved up to fry cook and eventually a waiter. That's Life.

 

[livingonthebeach]

I don't know what it is with tipping threads that get people so riled up and insist on imposing their righteous views of what is right and wrong. There are many different cultures in this world, and some don't allow tipping (e.g. Japan). RCG formerly RCCL is not a U.S. corporation so the "When in Rome do as the Romans" does not apply to U.S. tipping customs. Furthermore, tips in the U.S. are considered discretionary. You will not be ripping off the computer guy if you decide to tip those who serve you directly in cash or not at all. 

[time4u2go]

13 hours ago, glentally said:

When can I flat out tell them to not include or apply to my room/account..

At any time during the cruise.

[dunrobbin]

10 hours ago, Debgra6057 said:

Then why don't the cruise lines pay their staff a decent minimum wage? Why call it a tip anyway if it is not compulsory, only suggested.  Maybe they should just include the figures into the fares and be done with it, divide the percentage up for staff later after the cruise.  I'm not going on with this any  longer.  There are a lot of people who don't pay gratuities, they just don't want to be known.  I understand the reasoning behind it, but just have not known tipping as a usual part of everyday life.

Lets just agree to disagree, as is our right to. And sorry if I have offended anybody out there.

As an Aussie living in Canada, I believe the "Tipping" culture in North America is off the wall!  All companies are expecting us to pay their employees for them,  with our tips. Pay your staff a living wage and drop the whole painful tipping nightmare!

You buy a sub, and the machine asks for a 15% tip.   It's beyond crazy!

[A&L_Ont]

Perfect, OP has their answer.
 

We will see the “regulars” in 7 days when another thread is started.  Someone please start the countdown clock.

 

Anyone taking over/under bets? 

[HappyTexan44]

@gmerick Could you explain more your understanding of that lawsuit?    It sounds like it is about some positions getting much more than the minimum.   That doesn't make sense to me.  Or maybe it is some complaining that others are getting paid more than them?  

It also jumped out at me that extra tips added to the bill were added to the pool.  That would tick me off.