Is tipping mandatory

[time4u2go]

40 minutes ago, Tatka said:

How long ago you started cruising?

Mid 1990's. 

[Tatka]

23 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Mid 1990's. 

 

 So I guess you missed it? Cruise lines paid for their flights to initial port, but then they were getting very low pay in comparison to other positions  even though they worked just as much or more.

[time4u2go]

24 minutes ago, Tatka said:

 

 So I guess you missed it? Cruise lines paid for their flights to initial port, but then they were getting very low pay in comparison to other positions  even though they worked just as much or more.

I think you entirely missed the point of my original question. You asked a question that was worded very confusingly and I was just asking for clarification. I am fully aware of everything you are saying. Reread post number 45.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by time4u2go

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

They know which staff serve which guest. No, unless you complain about a specific staff member, they don't know which staff member triggered you to take off tips. But generally speaking, if you take off the wait staff tips, its reasonable to assume you were unhappy with your wait staff team. If you take off the room stewards tips, its reasonable to assume you were unhappy with your room steward team. 

 

It's either all or nothing I was told. 

[Merion_Mom]

15 hours ago, Biker19 said:

There should have been a comma after "switch" and I think they meant 20+ years ago before the switch to auto-grats and inclusion of downstream staff in that pool of money.

 

Biker, who assumes that kind of sloppy grammar really grates @Merion_Mom

 

Tatka gets a pass.  English is not her first language/native tongue.

[uvadover]

Literally speaking, tipping is not mandatory.  But it is customary.  Folks who remove the auto-gratuities justify it by saying "oh I definitely tip more...but in cash," or "I am only giving it to the folks who directly provide me service," or "I am going to teach the cruise line a lesson," etc.  But ultimately, they are just screwing a lot of hard working folks who make cruising so darn desirable that a bunch of people spend countless hours on this message board arguing about it, after having an amazing time on their vacation.

[crazyank]

6 hours ago, uvadover said:

But ultimately, they are just screwing a lot of hard working folks who make cruising so darn desirable

Nope

[livingonthebeach]

It is customary in the U.S. to give tips directly to the people that service you.  It is not customary in the U.S. to give tips to a multi-billion foreign corporation for them to distribute as they see fit. Whether the corporation uses it to supplement a shortfall in crew pay or gives it to their CEO as a Christmas bonus, is none of my concern. My concern is getting my tip money directly to those who offered me good service and are deserving of it. 

 

The only truly American cruise line that I can think of (there may be more smaller ones), is American Cruise Line which is an American company and operates ships which are built and registered in the United States. Crew members and employees are Americans. The so called "gratuities" are not added on to the fare and distributed by the cruise line. American Cruise Line is bound by U.S. labor laws and they pay their crew decent wages. 

 

As an American, I will continue to tip the American way, and no, I am not stiffing, ripping off, nor depriving any crew member who serves me, my hard earned dollars as I tip them well without the aid of an added conglomerate. 

[BecciBoo]

I once asked a Sous Chef on our tour if it was lucrative to work ships, his answer: "If it wasn't I wouldn't be here away from family!"  He said it was more than what he'd get at home in Australia.  Of course, he was probably on the upper echelon of contract pay but then again, I once had a maintenance guy tell us he only got $50 a month regular pay.  I didn't believe him for a second.  I think he told us that expecting we'd reach into our pocket right there.

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

It is customary in the U.S. to give tips directly to the people that service you.  It is not customary in the U.S. to give tips to a multi-billion foreign corporation for them to distribute as they see fit. Whether the corporation uses it to supplement a shortfall in crew pay or gives it to their CEO as a Christmas bonus, is none of my concern. My concern is getting my tip money directly to those who offered me good service and are deserving of it. 

 

 

It's customary to give tips to people who serve you directly. And it's also customary for them to tip out people who serve you indirectly. The fact that you don't see that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

[livingonthebeach]

17 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

It's customary to give tips to people who serve you directly. And it's also customary for them to tip out people who serve you indirectly. The fact that you don't see that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

What those that I tip directly do with the tips I give them is none of my or anyone’s concern. 

[gmerick]

4 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

I once had a maintenance guy tell us he only got $50 a month regular pay.

From two old lawsuit filings (probably a decade or so ago), this may be very accurate.  In this lawsuit, the crew member's base pay was in fact $50 per month, and the guaranteed gratuities portion was ~$700.  This was lawsuits from Cabin Stewards.  This same crewmember's claim was that an additional $2000+ of take-home pay was from passengers direct tips.

[gmerick]

Example lawsuit:  "caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-9th-circuit/1030149.html"

[HappyTexan44]

9 minutes ago, gmerick said:

Example lawsuit:  "caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-9th-circuit/1030149.html"

There is something to the special status of the crew.   When I was a waiter, if I'd been asked to clean the toilet, I could have walked away.   The crew can't do that.   I did change jobs when I felt that the required prep work had gone too far.  

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, gmerick said:

From two old lawsuit filings (probably a decade or so ago), this may be very accurate.  In this lawsuit, the crew member's base pay was in fact $50 per month, and the guaranteed gratuities portion was ~$700.  This was lawsuits from Cabin Stewards.  This same crewmember's claim was that an additional $2000+ of take-home pay was from passengers direct tips.

Seafarer minimum wage for 2023 is $658 per month, it goes up to $666 on 1 January 2024.

[glentally]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:44 AM, Moltar said:

I don't think I've ever been more impressed with a post. You won the internet today in my book. I couldn't agree more.

Your Welcome.  I love how passionate people are on their opinion.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Yikes, if you cannot afford to tip please stay home. 

[uvadover]

15 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

As an American, I will continue to tip the American way, and no, I am not stiffing, ripping off, nor depriving any crew member who serves me, my hard earned dollars as I tip them well without the aid of an added conglomerate. 

 

I'll go out on a limb to say this saves you money on your trip.

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

Yikes, if you cannot afford to tip please stay home. 

Where do you get the idea people can’t afford to tip? I don’t recall seeing any place where someone said they couldn’t afford it. It’s their money to spend as they see fit, and it’s nobody’s business but theirs.

[scottie99]

My pet hate is I’ve always pre paid tips, but that doesn’t stop the cabin steward leaving envelopes for “extra “ tips

[time4u2go]

9 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

Yikes, if you cannot afford to tip please stay home. 

I'm pretty sure nobody here said they couldn't afford to tip. 

[HappyTexan44]

That is wild to think that only $50 of the pay for non-tipped positions comes from the cruise fare, with the rest from the prepaid gratuities.  Not sure how I think about that.  One thing with tipped positions is that you can have a direct and large impact on your own pay.   There are limits of course, if there aren't many customers, then your pay is limited.  But, a really good waiter can regularly earn double of an average waiter on the same shift/restaurant.  But with this pooled auto grat., the crew has the worst of both worlds.    They have zero impact on their pay, but they also have the uncertainty of fluctuating pay.   

On the other hand, I get why Royal would like it this way,  Any $ they can push off to 'optional' makes the cruise fare look better in comparison to other lines.  

 

 

 

[UNCFanatik]

10 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

Yikes, if you cannot afford to tip please stay home. 

 

try this thought experiment if you would. Say, if the people who removed auto gratuities and didnt tip at all did stop cruising and stayed home

 

What would happen to the cruise fares?

 

What would happen to crew staffing levels?

 

I pay my advertised cruise fare which enables the cruise line to hire and pay their staff. I remove my auto gratuities and yet the crew still gets paid. I am not robbing or stiffing anyone. Royal charges a 18% service charge on drink package purchases before service is even rendered. I thought gratuity was supposed be AFTER service and not before???!!!  Not my responsibility to pay crew a fair wage. Again, the cruise lines at any moment could make tipping mandatory and/or just putting in cruise fare and let the market sort it out. So, the anger should be directed at the cruise lines and not passengers who have paid the cruise fare that was advertised

[gmerick]

Time for some math:

Quantum class ship:

4000+ guests, $18.00 per day in prepaid grats, 30 days = ~2.25 million per month.

Divided equally between 1500 crew members = $1500 per month.

I've left out suites, and the 18% added on to everything.  Not all the crew gets money from the tip pool.

 

Each guest that cancels grats affects the total tip pool by 0.025%.

If grats were evenly distributed between all crew, canceling grats affects a crew salary by 1.2 cents per day.

 

Handing a crew member a $20 on a 7-day trip could be a hundred times more than they see from one guest's prepaid gratuities.

Edited December 21, 2023 by gmerick

[Spif Barwunkel]

Once again, as in many threads past, opposing views on tipping are untenable at best, and yet folks continue to seek common ground on the topic. There is none. As it states in some tour descriptions, continuous walking over uneven and rough surfaces may be encountered. In other words, watch where you step.

Folks, it’s simple. For those who exclaim, tipping is for services rendered not a prequel to services intended, I would ask. Do you not prepay for the cruise, the taxes, the fees and any ship’s tours you may desire? The additional pre-paid gratuities won’t break you.

For those who claim cultural norms I would say, in this case cultural norms be damned. There’s a lot more involved here than just driving on the other side of the road. Your little part of the world should not determine what is proper elsewhere.

For those who remove their pre-paid gratuities under the guise of not caring about services they do not personally experience, that’s a rather harsh way of saying that certain crew members really don’t matter. Additional self-serving requires you to say that the company is responsible for providing adequate pay. No additional income is necessary.

Now, it is certainly your right to include yourself in any or all of these activities. As for being a cheapskate, a miser, a skinflint, there are many cruisers of that same ilk with the same all-about-me attitude. They are entitled to play the cruising game just as much as anyone but I, for one, totally disagree with their desire not to include everyone.