Celebrity breach of contract.

[The_Big_M]

14 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I think you make excellent points here..I am the same way regarding a butler..

 

Why would those in Sky suites not be the same way regarding the butler?

 

My impression of who is more demanding and in which grade of suite they travel in is the most demanding ones are in the top suites - but of course just as with other grades it doesn't mean everyone in that grade is the same.

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP should look at the positive of this experience. Like so many other former Celebrity cruisers, this may just provide enough impetus to book his next cruise with Oceania. (Yes, disgruntled Celebrity regulars often end up becoming O regulars and never look back.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, Andy&Mary Reno said:

I am surprised by the Celebrity Cheer Squad.  So not to ruin your Day don't read  the rest of the post.

We filed today in Federal court, some of the main issue to be addressed  1)  False / misleading advertising. Failure to disclose required truth in lending disclosures.  and 4 other causes of action. The "contract" will be deemed Null & void.  You cant enforce a contract that was presented  after transaction initiated.  I will post when I get updates and as when case progresses. Other than that, Happy Cruising. stay safe.  

Not to ruin your day but…

 
I don’t even have to read the language of Celebrity’s “contract” (including the actual Ticket Contract and Terms & Conditions) which were available for your review in the Legal Section of the Cruiseline’s website or at your request (directly to Celebrity or via your TA) before making a deposit.
 

Among its tried and true responses to your suit, Celebrity will argue successfully that the “contract” documents which absolve them for future changes to pretty much everything not related to “MarOps” (deck and engineering maritime operations) responsibility to get you from the advertised port of embarkation to the advertised port of disembarkation), were available for your review in numerous ways both prior to and after you made an initial booking (which probably didn’t even require an immediate “cash” transaction to get an initial time limited “hold” invoice).

BTW, I’m neither a Celebrity cheerleader nor a Celebrity customer. But, I am an avid cruiser who, even after cruising almost 500 nights on our preferred line, still reviews the Ticket Contract and T&Cs before making a deposit. I may not like all that I read about the company’s liability/responsibility. But, whenever they do make a change to the original deal, I know what my options are and I know the best strategies to get what I reasonably need from any negotiations.

 

I wish you good fortune with your quest and do hope you’ll let us all know how it turns out.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Flatbush Flyer

[alexandria]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:51 AM, Andy&Mary Reno said:

We had paid off the cruise way before  the "penalty period had just begun. Regardless they offered  FCC.  There was other issues. We have decided to retain Counsel. It seems to me. Celebrity wants to hold you to a contract that they breeched. Very one sided. I believe in principles and ethical practices, Celebrity doesn't.    

3 hours ago, Andy&Mary Reno said:

I am surprised by the Celebrity Cheer Squad.  So not to ruin your Day don't read  the rest of the post.

We filed today in Federal court, some of the main issue to be addressed  1)  False / misleading advertising. Failure to disclose required truth in lending disclosures.  and 4 other causes of action. The "contract" will be deemed Null & void.  You cant enforce a contract that was presented  after transaction initiated.  I will post when I get updates and as when case progresses. Other than that, Happy Cruising. stay safe.  

 

So within a single business day during the week between Christmas and New Year's Day, you (a resident of Nevada according to your profile here):

1.  Found an attorney willing to take your case who is admitted to practice law in the Southern District of Florida,

2.  Retained said attorney,

3.  Paid said attorney to litigate your complaint against Celebrity,

4.  Provided said attorney with all of the evidence you possess,

5.  Discussed your complaint in detail with said attorney.

 

And then, all within that same single business day, this attorney you retained:

1.  Reviewed your complaints and evidence along with applicable statutes and caselaw (if necessary),

2.  Determined what cause of action(s) were supported by the facts and evidence you presented,

3.  Elected not to send a demand letter to Celebrity's general counsel,

4.  Elected not to otherwise engage Celebrity's general counsel in any settlement discussion,

5.  Decided to bear the financial and other risks of non-compliance with the applicable mandatory arbitration provision,

6.  Drafted and reviewed the lawsuit and any other pleadings, and

7.  Immediately filed the same in US District Court in the Southern District of Florida.

 

What will be found if a search of PACER is conducted to find any new civil actions against Celebrity or Royal Caribbean Group that were filed in US District Court yesterday?  Will a lawsuit such as you describe be found?  My sincere apologies if I am off-base, but this simply doesn't pass the smell test.

 

 

Of interesting note, if "the 'contract' will be deemed Null & void" as you claim, what is the basis for your complaint?  You knew the product you would be receiving before you cruised and yet you cruised anyway, thereby accepting the product then being offered.  After all, if the contract was "Null & void", you could have simply received a full refund.  One cannot, having foreknowledge that the product or service will not be as expected, decide to accept the product or service as is with that foreknowledge and then be heard to complain that it was "bait and switch" or they breached a contract (that you now claim was "Null & void").  You simply did not rely and act upon any alleged misrepresentations by Celebrity.  By the way...if your attorney actually told you that the contract WILL BE DEEMED NULL AND VOID, then your attorney is a fool (or worse).  Of course, any attorney who has so few clients that they have the free time to act in the manner I described above and treats the litigation as though it is a critical life and death matter is not an attorney I would entrust with even the most trivial of legal matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit to correct spelling and grammar.

Edited December 28, 2023 by alexandria

[Oceangoer2]

49 minutes ago, alexandria said:

 

So within a single business day during the week between Christmas and New Year's Day, you (a resident of Nevada according to your profile here):

1.  Found an attorney willing to take your case who is admitted to practice law in the Southern District of Florida,

2.  Retained said attorney,

3.  Paid said attorney to litigate your complaint against Celebrity,

4.  Provided said attorney with all of the evidence you possess,

5.  Discussed your complaint in detail with said attorney.

 

And then, all within that same single business day, this attorney you retained:

1.  Reviewed your complaints and evidence along with applicable statutes and caselaw (if necessary),

2.  Determined what cause of action(s) were supported by the facts and evidence you presented,

3.  Elected not to send a demand letter to Celebrity's general counsel,

4.  Elected not to otherwise engage Celebrity's general counsel in any settlement discussion,

5.  Decided to bear the financial and other risks of non-compliance with the applicable mandatory arbitration provision,

6.  Drafted and reviewed the lawsuit and any other pleadings, and

7.  Immediately filed the same in US District Court in the Southern District of Florida.

 

What will be found if a search of PACER is conducted to find any new civil actions against Celebrity or Royal Caribbean Group that were filed in US District Court yesterday?  Will a lawsuit such as you describe be found?  My sincere apologies if I am off-base, but this simply doesn't pass the smell test.

 

 

Of interesting note, if "the 'contract' will be deemed Null & void" as you claim, what is the basis for your complaint?  You knew the product you would be receiving before you cruised and yet you cruised anyway, thereby accepting the product then being offered.  After all, if the contract was "Null & void", you could have simply received a full refund.  One cannot, having foreknowledge that the product or service will not be as expected, decide to accept the product or service as is with that foreknowledge and then be heard to complain that it was "bait and switch" or they breached a contract (that you now claim was "Null & void").  You simply did not rely and act upon any alleged misrepresentations by Celebrity.  By the way...if your attorney actually told you that the contract WILL BE DEEMED NULL AND VOID, then your attorney is a fool (or worse).  Of course, any attorney who has so few clients that they have the free time to act in the manner I described above and treats the litigation as though it is a critical life and death matter is not an attorney I would entrust with even the most trivial of legal matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit to correct spelling and grammar.

The lawyers among us are having a great time with 'thrust and parry'!  Maybe the OP engaged himself in that one day? Does he/she have a fool for a client?😉

Edited December 28, 2023 by Oceangoer2

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, Andy&Mary Reno said:

I am surprised by the Celebrity Cheer Squad.  So not to ruin your Day don't read  the rest of the post.

We filed today in Federal court, some of the main issue to be addressed  1)  False / misleading advertising. Failure to disclose required truth in lending disclosures.  and 4 other causes of action. The "contract" will be deemed Null & void.  You cant enforce a contract that was presented  after transaction initiated.  I will post when I get updates and as when case progresses. Other than that, Happy Cruising. stay safe.  

 

Good luck with that. Yes, please post updates. I'm no attorney, but have filed civil litigation in federal court and know just how time consuming and expensive that is. Our attorney took our case on contingency; but to file the suit in federal court she required us to pay close to $1,000 for the filing. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by sanger727

[cgolf1]

I am curious to see how this plays out. Perhaps the OP realizes that this is a monetary loser for them, but doing it on principle. In that case if they win, maybe some things could change in the future with the business practices. All it takes is one person to push it through to make changes, but the businesses usually know that nobody will spend the money to do so.

 

Lets just hope that if the change happens they don't use it as an excuse to really raise rates even further. 

[leaveitallbehind]

55 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Good luck with that. Yes, please post updates. 

Pardon the cynic in me, but of course if the OP posts any further updates it will be to acknowledge the overwhelming success of the lawsuit and the large awarded damages that were received as a result. Given the tenor of the overall thread do you really expect otherwise or any confirmation of a failed lawsuit attempt?

 

That all being said I do hope for the best with them in whatever form that takes, as if they wish to continue enjoying cruising, IMO they need to have this put behind them.  Life is too short otherwise. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[cgolf1]

3 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

That all being said I do hope for the best with them as if they wish to continue enjoying cruising, IMO they need to have this put behind them.  Life is too short otherwise. 

 

After reading the above, I wonder if the filing of this lawsuit puts them on some kind of no sail list? Which would really suck for them.

[leaveitallbehind]

4 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

After reading the above, I wonder if the filing of this lawsuit puts them on some kind of no sail list? Which would really suck for them.

I wouldn't expect so, as likely IMO, this will be seen as somewhat frivolous and likely not to result in any negative impact.  But I am not a cruise line executive nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so who knows?  LOL

Edited December 28, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[sanger727]

5 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

After reading the above, I wonder if the filing of this lawsuit puts them on some kind of no sail list? Which would really suck for them.

 

I would think that this is absolutely true. What business in their right mind wants to do business with a customer that sues them? Even if it gets dismissed as frivolous, it will cost the business time and money with their attorneys.

[leaveitallbehind]

2 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I would think that this is absolutely true. What business in their right mind wants to do business with a customer that sues them? Even if it gets dismissed as frivolous, it will cost the business time and money with their attorneys.

Good point, and you may well be correct. I would also think that the OP would not want to continue any business with them afterward either.  I also was interpreting @cgolf1's question on a more "global" scale to include a list with other cruise lines.

[cgolf1]

24 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Good point, and you may well be correct. I would also think that the OP would not want to continue any business with them afterward either.  I also was interpreting @cgolf1's question on a more "global" scale to include a list with other cruise lines.

 

I was definitely thinking all cruise lines. I was also thinking if they were successful and won the case.

Edited December 28, 2023 by cgolf1

[leaveitallbehind]

14 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

I was definitely thinking all cruise lines. I was also thinking if they were successful and won the case.

Certainly - if they were successful. (Big IF IMO).   But you may be correct in that other lines may not want to risk the same issues.

[TeeRick]

Just a thought here not being a lawyer.  As the OP laid out their legal steps, evidence and discussion here on CC in a public forum, it would seem to me that would jeopardize the case?

[WestLakeGirl]

So has anyone done a PACER search? Inquiring minds want to know!

[MagPie60]

This can't be real Who in this crazy, cruel, unequal world gets so upset - to the level of a law suit - about a butler? 

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Pardon the cynic in me, but of course if the OP posts any further updates it will be to acknowledge the overwhelming success of the lawsuit and the large awarded damages that were received as a result. Given the tenor of the overall thread do you really expect otherwise or any confirmation of a failed lawsuit attempt?

 

 

No. I'm looking more for the entertainment value of a creative writing assignment. 

[TeeRick]

23 minutes ago, MagPie60 said:

This can't be real Who in this crazy, cruel, unequal world gets so upset - to the level of a law suit - about a butler? 

Actually it is about a butler versus a butler team.  True first world problem.  

[leaveitallbehind]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Just a thought here not being a lawyer.  As the OP laid out their legal steps, evidence and discussion here on CC in a public forum, it would seem to me that would jeopardize the case?

Not likely as I doubt the corporate legal team would bother to research CC (if they even know what it is) in order to prepare for something that in their minds is likely trivial.  I am sure they are very well prepared and experienced in just this sort of thing as they would be the ones well versed in any legal ramifications of the policies - and changes of same - within the corporation. Especially since they were probably involved with authoring them.

Edited December 28, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[ldubs]

On 12/26/2023 at 10:59 PM, Andy&Mary Reno said:

No  the retreat already had a retreat concierge team  so no they didn't replace anything  They last time I checked Bait and switch is illegal.  

 

I don't know if it is illegal but think in general principle, any material change should result in the option of a refund.  

[leaveitallbehind]

15 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't know if it is illegal but think in general principle, any material change should result in the option of a refund.  

To that point Celebrity did offer an FCC to the OP when they wanted to cancel. As any funds paid prior to final payment are fully refundable with suites except the deposit, I would have to assume the FCC was for the deposit.  This offer would have kept the OP whole in terms of funds with the caveat that in order to get the value of their deposit they would have to book a future cruise with Celebrity. 

 

The offer of the FCC was not required and IMO falls under the general principal to which you refer as Celebrity was under no obligation to do so.  I understand if the OP did not want to cruise again with Celebrity that they would pass on the offer.  But at least it was made.

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

To that point Celebrity did offer an FCC to the OP when they wanted to cancel. As any funds paid prior to final payment are fully refundable with suites except the deposit, I would have to assume the FCC was for the deposit.  This offer would have kept the OP whole in terms of funds with the caveat that in order to get the value of their deposit they would have to book a future cruise with Celebrity. 

 

The offer of the FCC was not required and IMO falls under the general principal to which you refer as Celebrity was under no obligation to do so.  I understand if the OP did not want to cruise again with Celebrity that they would pass on the offer.  But at least it was made.

 

Yes, I was referring to refund, not FCC.  Thanks.   

 

All Celebrity need do to avoid this in the future is just call all staff on that deck "Butler".  Then, what's the problem! 😀

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by ldubs

[TeeRick]

7 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Yes, I was referring to refund, not FCC.  Thanks.   

 

All Celebrity need do to avoid this in the future is just call all staff on that deck "Butler".  Then, what's the problem! 😀

 

 

Not sure if you recall, but fairly recently Celebrity did away with the term Butler and replaced it with Retreat Host.  The butlers did not like the name change so it went back.  

[jelayne]

12 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't know if it is illegal but think in general principle, any material change should result in the option of a refund.  

What determines “material”?
The cruise sailed, they had the suite, they had access to Luminae and other dining venues,  they had access to the Retreat facilities as well as other bars and lounges, they could participate in activities and see the shows, the suite was cleaned regularly.  They had priority boarding and debarkation.

They had reserved seating available on EC nights in the theater.

 

The difference:

They had in room food ordered and deliver through Room Service rather than a butler.

Laundry is picked up and returned by the Retreat Host not a butler.

To make or change reservations, resolve account or internet access issues or similar problems they had to call the Retreat a Concierge vs calling a Butler.

They had to stock their mini bar vs a butler stocking/refilling it.

They had to unpack and pack their belonging ( rarely have I heard of this service being used a you have to be present when the butler was unpacking/packing)

Less personalize service but is that a material breach of the contract, I doubt it.  

To be clear we have sailed in Sky Suites frequently and are not pleased with the change but wouldn’t spend a dime on a court fight.