Do not sail list

[BIGBANG22]

Hello everyone i am at a lost. I last cruised with carnival about 7 years ago via  third party "travel agent". I remember attempting to pay for my cruise with my amex card and was told his agency did not accept amex. This agent was referred to me by another person who used him. I remember him having a webssite, active facebook and because the person who referred me to him used him; I had no red flags about zelling him the money. We cruised. Had a good time! Last year, i attempted to book another cruise (i tried to book through the same travel agent, but no response) so i booked on carnival cruise website. I rcvd a booking #. When i tried to go back in and start making payment, the booking was canceled. Never notified by carnival. I called them and after trying to reach the right team (Collections, apparently ) they finally told me it was canceled because of a chargeback in the amount of $2600 from 7 years ago. and I am on the do not sail list! Im like what the heck, why would you not notify me about this then! I had no idea, no emails, calls, mail! NOTHING was ever sent to me!  From my understanding, they rcvd a chargeback. and my name is associated with fraud! They are also refusing to give me my deposit back for my most recent booking they canceled last year ( I have two other rooms with my children in them and they will not cancel without charging a cancellation fee. I am at a lost here, does anyone know of a higher person i can talk too. I offered to show receipts i sent to the travel agent... and the collections agent said i need to take it up with the travel agent.. Which i can not reach or find on social media to find out what he did!

 

 

[shof515]

anytime you or someone else does a chargeback on your behalf is it normal for the company to block you in the future. this not only cruise lines, airlines will do the same thing

 

any kind of chargeback means you are now in a high risk category and a huge red flag 

[ARcruisin2]

So if I understand correctly - you paid travel agent, travel agent paid Carnival...but then did a charge back. I'm betting the agent did this with more than just you and then either got caught and banned, then skipped with everyone's money. And you and Carnival are paying the price for it. 

Maybe you can ask your credit card company to provide in writing that you paid travel agent and did not get charge back credit to your card.  

Then maybe reach out to John Heald with all the information and see if he can help. I bet they can see if there were multiple instances with that agent. Maybe if you offer to pay in full up front the first time you sail just to prove good faith, they'll be more open to working with you. good luck!

[BIGBANG22]

Yes, i zelled him the money FROM my bank because he said his agency did not accept Amercan express. Zelle is pretty much equal to cash, but i was comfortable with doing it because 1) he claimed to be a travel agent 2) he was referred to me from someone who used him previously.. 

 

Carnival wants me to pay off the past due balance from 7 years ago... 

[sparks1093]

I agree, it sounds like after your cruise the TA did a charge back in your name. Not sure what the remedy would be.

[tonit964]

It looks like you pretty much only have 3 options.

 

1) Pay the balance owed from 7 years ago.

2) Spend the time and resources to go after the "travel agent".

3) Find another cruise line.

 

Sorry this happened to you, I hope it works out in your favor.

[notscb]

Sounds like you were the victim of a scam here, sadly.

I doubt Carnival is going to change their mind until you pay whatever they feel is due. You could try a brief email to their customer service explaining the issue and asking for help, but every company handles folks who are involved in chargebacks this way (as others have commented).

 

I'd suggest following this guide and see where it gets you.

[LuckyStar]

OMG.  This is a nightmare.  I would be horrified if I were banned.  I have no answers, you have been given some great information.  So sorry this happened to you.  Best of luck in clearing it up. 

 

J

[StephPS79]

As unfortunate as this is, and it certainly is unfortunate, I, like the others, don't see a way around this.  I'd agree, possibly reach out to John Heald, but the company can't be held responsible for the agent scamming people.  I don't imagine they will say this will be resolved without the charge-back amount being accounted for.

[Travelling2Some]

I think it is telling that the travel agent would not accept Amex.  Amex does a VERY good job of standing with their customers and I'll bet he knew that.  When the pandemic first broke out we had to cancel a very extensive trip and TAP Airline was the only vendor (out of more than 10!) who would not give us a cash refund.  This in spite of the fact that it was they who cancelled our flight, not us.  Totally illegal, of course, and Amex promptly did a charge-back with only one phone call from us.  We fully expected to be banned from that airline going forward but have been able to book flights with them several times since to our surprise. I will always book travel arrangements on my Amex card and, if any vendor does not accept that then I will regard it as a red flag. 

[dabomb6608]

As unfortunate as this is you have to look at it from their POV.

 

What if a individual "paid" $2600 for product/services you as a business provided to them. This individuals payment method resulted in a chargeback that took the money away from you the business while they kept the product/service you provided. I can't imagine as a general policy you would want to let this individual conduct further business with you, regardless of their claim of innocence. 

 

Now if the consumer has documentation that can prove payment to a third party who "paid" the business  on their behalf then maybe it might persuade you in to reconsidering your policy for them...but it would have to be GOOD documentation with clear cut evidence to innocence on the consumers part. 

 

So it is up to you in this situation as the consumer to provide them with actual documentation proving what you say happened actually happened. Otherwise it is just your word vs their bank account showing -$2600. Obviously at the end of the day it is a huge corporation and that is a drop in the bucket to their bank account. But still, you simply can't run a business and constantly allow yourself to get scammed (or potentially scammed again in this situation). 

 

The zelle payment should have been a huge red flag with fog horns blaring in the background. At a minimum this should've been done through Paypal as a Goods & Services payment. Zelle has little to no protections for payments sent. Zelle, Venmo and Paypal Friends & Family are online scam havens.  Fortunately this scammer didn't scam you directly out of the $2600. Unfortunately you still feel the consequences of his actions. 

Edited January 16 by dabomb6608

[realaud]

5 hours ago, BIGBANG22 said:

Hello everyone i am at a lost. I last cruised with carnival about 7 years ago via  third party "travel agent". I remember attempting to pay for my cruise with my amex card and was told his agency did not accept amex. This agent was referred to me by another person who used him. I remember him having a webssite, active facebook and because the person who referred me to him used him; I had no red flags about zelling him the money. We cruised. Had a good time! Last year, i attempted to book another cruise (i tried to book through the same travel agent, but no response) so i booked on carnival cruise website. I rcvd a booking #. When i tried to go back in and start making payment, the booking was canceled. Never notified by carnival. I called them and after trying to reach the right team (Collections, apparently ) they finally told me it was canceled because of a chargeback in the amount of $2600 from 7 years ago. and I am on the do not sail list! Im like what the heck, why would you not notify me about this then! I had no idea, no emails, calls, mail! NOTHING was ever sent to me!  From my understanding, they rcvd a chargeback. and my name is associated with fraud! They are also refusing to give me my deposit back for my most recent booking they canceled last year ( I have two other rooms with my children in them and they will not cancel without charging a cancellation fee. I am at a lost here, does anyone know of a higher person i can talk too. I offered to show receipts i sent to the travel agent... and the collections agent said i need to take it up with the travel agent.. Which i can not reach or find on social media to find out what he did!

 

 

I would suggest that you bypass customer service and go directly to the executive contacts listed here with any and all documentation https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/carnival-cruise-lines/ you can also look aroynd the wrbsite. The guy foes travel advocacy and I read in a revent column that he assisted somebidy with getting off a do nit sail list. Not sure, but it mught have also involved Carnival.

Edited January 16 by realaud

[Itchy&Scratchy]

what was the charge back to?

OP sent cash to the TA. TA paid Carnival with something - we don't know what. What was charged back? TA's credit card? Obviously, no

t OP's credit card, because he sent cash.

All OP has to show for it is the cash that left his bank account.

 

2 hours ago, StephPS79 said:

but the company can't be held responsible for the agent scamming people.

neither should be the customer who was thrown under the bus by the TA.

[BlerkOne]

I don't see how Carnival is responsible for anything the "travel agent" did. So what if you can prove fraud by a travel agent? It isn't Carnival's problem. Maybe somehow you can write it off.

 

How you chose the TA and the TA themselves all seems sketchy. But it really doesn't matter. You did it. I would never pay by Zelle. You have almost no protection.

 

I think the only thing to do is to ask Carnival if you reimburse them to get off of the list or what it might take. Whatever they say is likely the final answer.

[FTLCruiseGal]

Totally sucks that this happened.  There has to be some way to find the TA and go after him.  Google is your friend.  If you have his name, it isn’t too hard to find him.  Just because he may have deleted his social media doesn’t mean he still isn’t out there.

 

You could go after him by filing a lawsuit.  Just make sure you have your ducks in a row.  I don’t know if Zelle keeps track of all of your transactions, but the more you have the better.  
 

Unfortunately, the only way to get back in good graces with Carnival is to pay that money back to them.

[BIGBANG22]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't see how Carnival is responsible for anything the "travel agent" did. So what if you can prove fraud by a travel agent? It isn't Carnival's problem. Maybe somehow you can write it off.

 

How you chose the TA and the TA themselves all seems sketchy. But it really doesn't matter. You did it. I would never pay by Zelle. You have almost no protection.

 

I think the only thing to do is to ask Carnival if you reimburse them to get off of the list or what it might take. Whatever they say is likely the final answer.

How is it sketchy? He was a referral by my brother and my brother friend referred the  "agent" to him ! They both had experience with this guy! I had no reg flags. Even with Amex, i don't travel often! I know of multiple companies that don't accept amex so even that wasn't a red flag. Had this person not be referred, i would not have Zelled him. I paid for the trip back in 2019. I don't have another 2600 to pay. carnival should have informed me of this then

[ontheweb]

This is an unfortunate situation, and I don't know how you get out of it.

 

However, there should be a lesson here for others. Always pay by credit card and make sure it is directly to the cruise line. I know when we book a cruise through our travel agent, the charge always shows as directly to whatever cruise line we use. And since cruise lines take American Express, if a TA says no to charging the Amex card, that is a huge red flag. I realize this does not help you, but at least it should be a lesson for others.

[cyntil8ing]

The red flag was the payment to the agent instead of to the cruise line. The agent should use your card to pay the cruise line directly. Any other way, as you unfortunately found out, is ripe for trouble.

 

Sorry this happened. Hope you can get some sort of resolution.

[BIGBANG22]

39 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

what was the charge back to?

OP sent cash to the TA. TA paid Carnival with something - we don't know what. What was charged back? TA's credit card? Obviously, no

t OP's credit card, because he sent cash.

All OP has to show for it is the cash that left his bank account.

 

neither should be the customer who was thrown under the bus by the TA.

i don't know what card the TA used. After discussing this with multiple people today, including a TA i met last year, it sounds like he was not a legitimate agent... Now what he used to book, i don't know! I have been on hold with carnival today . This has not been easy and even more difficult since the booking # was archived with carnival 

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, BIGBANG22 said:

How is it sketchy? He was a referral by my brother and my brother friend referred the  "agent" to him ! They both had experience with this guy! I had no reg flags. Even with Amex, i don't travel often! I know of multiple companies that don't accept amex so even that wasn't a red flag. Had this person not be referred, i would not have Zelled him. I paid for the trip back in 2019. I don't have another 2600 to pay. carnival should have informed me of this then

You left those details out. All you posted was:

 

"This agent was referred to me by another person who used him."

 

Another person could be anyone, including a shill on the internet.

[jsglow]

So very sorry @BIGBANG22.

 

Here's the facts:

- you were almost certainly defrauded by the agent; this wasn't some bookkeeping error. 

- Carnival never actually got paid and their reaction is to 'lifetime ban' in all such cases. Please don't take it personal as there are no exceptions despite the unfortunate circumstances. Other companies have similar policies.

- legal pursuit of the unscrupulous agent likely will cost significantly more than the $2600. Even if you can get a judgment, you still have to be able to collect on it. It's a true uphill battle with an uncertain result.

- your only avenue with Carnival is to pay them the money they are still owed if you want to be in their good graces. If you choose to go that route, document any agreement with them directly.

 

I speak from professional experience here OP. I ran a large bank corporate workout group for decades. It stinks but those are the cards you have been dealt.  Best wishes on whatever you decide to do.

[TiredTrucker]

I guess you could blast them on social media until they finally listen to you.  Sadly that seems to be the only way to get the attention of most large companies these days. 

 

I don't expect it will actually resolve things to your satisfaction but it isn't like you have anything to lose. 

Edited January 16 by TiredTrucker

[staceyglow]

7 minutes ago, TiredTrucker said:

I guess you could blast them on social media until they finally listen to you.  Sadly that seems to be the only way to get the attention of most large companies these days. 

Blast who? Carnival?  

[Eli_6]

I don't agree with most of PPs. You are a victim of fraud just like Carnival and shouldn't be held responsible for someone else's obvious fraud.  I would do a signed and notorized affidavit stating the situation and that you were not involved with the fraud, get together everything you can from your cc company involving the charge back and specifically anything that shows the charge back didn't come from you and then present all the information to Carnival's customer service to either get your money back or go on the cruise.  If none of this works, contact John Heald with this info. You might also try finding out if there is any information on the fraudster agent in her local jurisdiction.  If there were any fraud charges against her, etc. You might also reach out to the friend referral and try to figure out if the agent did this to anyone else and then also present this information to Carnival.    

 

I feel your pain. It sucks being a victim. We had tens of thousands of dollars (and a rolex watch and tools) stolen from us by a fraudster construction guy who literally gave us fake insurance documents, had family members giving him fake referrals, etc. after a hurricane.  We went to authorities--both police and the Harris County DA's office.  I had over 100 pages of documents proving his fraud.  They did nothing. I was told since I lived in a large county, they didn't take action until he had ripped off multiple people. Guess what? He ultimately ripped off multiple people.  By the time they finally did something, the guy had ripped off over 20 families and left the state. 

 

[BlerkOne]

32 minutes ago, BIGBANG22 said:

 I paid for the trip back in 2019. I don't have another 2600 to pay. carnival should have informed me of this then

Anytime you use a travel agent, legitimate or not, all communication goes through the travel agent. Carnival doesn't deal directly with the cruiser at that point.