All fees included now?

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, richwmn said:

I understand that, but the law wouldn't have been passed unless either a substantial number of people, or the right people, complained about the pricing structure.

 

 

Just a side FYI: The law wasn't directed at the cruise line pricing structure. The law is directed at eliminating all hidden fees which have been on the uptick lately. Cruise lines just have to abide.

 

There are two new hidden fees that have cropped up in my world post covid, the first is a 4% "behind the scenes' charge in restaurants. Touted as going to kitchen staff, dish washers, etc... Unfortunately, the staff I have spoken with stated that this fee is not being passed along and is kept by the establishment. Many people don't even notice it's there. I'd just like to see more transparency on the fee itself, and accountability on where it goes.

 

Another fee I would like to see made very visible are credit card fees when dining out. Maybe they have been around in other places longer, but it seems that credit card usage fees at restaurants popped up over night here, and most restaurants we visit have zero notice listed anywhere on the menu.

 

 

Edited June 21 by BermudaBound2014

[Cruise Junky]

25 minutes ago, sunviking90 said:

Size of the ship affects this too, particularly for Alaska. We noticed Zaandam fees were higher than the Noordam, etc.

Yes, I saw that when we were making a ship selection.  Maybe a flat fee somewhere that is spread across all passengers.  Glacier bay maybe?  

[Boatdrill]

10 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

Depends where it leaves from. I only paid $354 Cdn on Koningsdam from Vancouver.  That’s $258 USD$

Yes, the fees are sensitive to the itinerary. However a 7 day round trip from Seattle started at $340 pp, and approx. 6-7 months before departure date,  increased to $370, with no change in itinerary.     

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, richwmn said:

I understand that, but the law wouldn't have been passed unless either a substantial number of people, or the right people, complained about the pricing structure.

 

Yes, but to change back to hiding taxes and fees when one first sees the price would take a change in the California law, not a negative reaction from cruise passengers looking to book.

 

And as pointed out in post #26, this law did not come about because of complaints by those booking cruises.

Edited June 21 by ontheweb
added 2nd paragraph

[Tampa Girl]

17 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

It’s true. Sprouted from California’s transparency bill (SB478). Lots of articles have been published. 

 

When did California get the jurisdiction to pass a nationwide law?

[BermudaBound2014]

12 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

When did California get the jurisdiction to pass a nationwide law?

 

I'm sure you are aware that California can not pass a nationwide law. Here's a little bit more information on California new hidden fee law and it's relationship to federal law if you are interested: 

https://www.gtlaw.com/en/insights/2023/10/california-bans-hidden-fees-effective-july-1-2024

 

 

I said  California's new law 'sprouted' changes to the way cruise ships price, meaning it was a catalyst for change to the cruise industry.

 

"....thanks to California’s new “Honest Pricing Law,” major cruise lines will have to include all additional costs in their prices come July 1st.

Celebrity Cruises, Princess Cruises, Royal Caribbean International, and Carnival Cruise Line are among the major operators that will soon be affected by the law. Once the law goes into effect, these operators will be legally required to include the cost of taxes, port expenses, and any other additional fees passengers may be subjected to while on board."

https://www.timeout.com/usa/news/this-new-law-is-changing-cruise-line-pricing-as-we-know-it-052024

 

 

Edited June 21 by BermudaBound2014

[RedIguana]

9 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

When did California get the jurisdiction to pass a nationwide law?

It is not that California is passing a nationwide law, but that the cruise lines are voluntarily adjusting their pricing nationwide to avoid having a separate pricing structure just for California. 

[VMax1700]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

credit card fees when dining out

That has also been outlawed in EU, since 2018.  It is not permitted to charge more for credit card transactions than for cash transaction.

[Torquer]

One very big negative about this that no one mentioned, if a cruise misses a port due to weather/schedule/whatever, the cruise line is under no obligation to refund the port fees.  Since you are not paying extra for these fees, you cannot claim they should be refunded.  Our other favorite cruise line, Oceania, has included port fees/taxes in the base fare since I can remember, and when you miss a port, they do not give you a refund.  I am certainly guessing that HAL will follow suit and no longer give these refunds.

 

On the other hand, one of the travel agents we use bases the percentage rebate they give back to us on just the cruise fare and exclude port fees and taxes.  Now, I guess they will not be able to do that and the rebate will be a percentage of the full fare including taxes.  But of course, HAL might reduce their commissions by a similar amount so we won't really get any more money back on future cruises we book.

[C 2 C]

I recently read an article about port charges/berthing fees in Australia.  It seems port fees there are 10 times higher than in Florida.  $250,000 per day.

 

[sunviking90]

3 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

Yes, I saw that when we were making a ship selection.  Maybe a flat fee somewhere that is spread across all passengers.  Glacier bay maybe?  

Yes, I think you’re right. I’ve noticed cruises not entering Glacier Bay have slightly lower taxes/fees.

[VMax1700]

1 hour ago, Torquer said:

One very big negative about this that no one mentioned, if a cruise misses a port due to weather/schedule/whatever, the cruise line is under no obligation to refund the port fees

Always had port fees refunded if a port was missed.  Even with the port fees included in the price.

 

edited to say:  Ofcourse if the ship accounting dept was refunding port fees after a missed port, it was probably easier just to refund everyone onboard, so port fees being included probably made no difference. 

Further edit:  Who would know what amount was to be refunded for a particular port anyway?  Even with the additional fees system no one knew the actual fee for a specific port.

Edited June 21 by VMax1700

[Tampa Girl]

30 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I'm sure you are aware that California can not pass a nationwide law. Here's a little bit more information on California new hidden fee law and it's relationship to federal law if you are interested: 

https://www.gtlaw.com/en/insights/2023/10/california-bans-hidden-fees-effective-july-1-2024

 

 

I said  California's new law 'sprouted' changes to the way cruise ships price, meaning it was a catalyst for change to the cruise industry.

 

"....thanks to California’s new “Honest Pricing Law,” major cruise lines will have to include all additional costs in their prices come July 1st.

Celebrity Cruises, Princess Cruises, Royal Caribbean International, and Carnival Cruise Line are among the major operators that will soon be affected by the law. Once the law goes into effect, these operators will be legally required to include the cost of taxes, port expenses, and any other additional fees passengers may be subjected to while on board."

https://www.timeout.com/usa/news/this-new-law-is-changing-cruise-line-pricing-as-we-know-it-052024

 

 

 

Thank you for providing FTC information.  In reading the following proposed FTC rule information, I question whether this rule and California's new law are the gamechangers that several posters hope that it will be.  For instance, the FTC rule refers to "hidden fees and taxes", and the analysis of the California law requires that "all costs, fees and taxes" be clearly and readily available to the consumer.  HAL clearly reveals what the estimated fees and port taxes are if one takes the time to do a mock booking. This information is not hidden.  Whether a deposit is refundable is also clearly stated during the booking process.  If it is refundable, the clause will reflect when cancellation penalties commence.  If it is non-refundable, I have always found that such is clearly stated when the cruise is published. 

 

The daily gratuity, however, is another matter, and it is dependent on the cabin class that is being booked.  Still, HAL needs to include that cost in a mock booking.  OTOH, that puts HAL in the position of unintentionally encouraging passengers to opt out of paying the gratuity once they are told that the gratuity is not mandatory.  Hmm, perhaps it is time for fresh look at the not-so-mandatory gratuity.

 

In short, I am happy with HAL's transparency re fees, costs (except for the gratuities), taxes, refundability or non-refundability, there are probably other costs which I have overlooked.

 

 

 

[Niagarawine]

22 hours ago, CNSJ said:

Port fees and taxes can be a shocker.  Panama Canal may be one of the worst ones.  This is good.  As @SilvertoGold mentioned it would be nice to see the breakout.

Yep Panama

[Elkins45]

I doubt if the cruise industry was what prompted this. My guess is that it’s a result of the outrageous hidden cleaning fees for AirBNB listings and/or hotel “resort fees” that aren’t included in search listings when sorted by price.

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, Elkins45 said:

I doubt if the cruise industry was what prompted this. My guess is that it’s a result of the outrageous hidden cleaning fees for AirBNB listings and/or hotel “resort fees” that aren’t included in search listings when sorted by price.

I agree, and would add hotels with their resort fees and often several taxes from different jurisdictions. The final price is never close to what you first see quoted.

 

Nevertheless, it does seem to also apply to cruises, at least the cruise lines are reacting as if it does. 

[Btimmer]

BTW, I recently received a formal announcement from Princess announcing the all inclusive fare change discussed in this thread.  It's effective 7/1/24.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

4 hours ago, Btimmer said:

BTW, I recently received a formal announcement from Princess announcing the all inclusive fare change discussed in this thread.  It's effective 7/1/24.

Holland will be next ...

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Btimmer said:

BTW, I recently received a formal announcement from Princess announcing the all inclusive fare change discussed in this thread.  It's effective 7/1/24.

That is the date that the California law goes into effect.

[Moriah]

21 hours ago, sunviking90 said:

Size of the ship affects this too, particularly for Alaska. We noticed Zaandam fees were higher than the Noordam, etc.

 

This doesn't make intuitive sense to me.  A smaller ship having to pay less in port fees than a larger ship?  I wonder why...

[FlaMariner]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:44 PM, tatabea said:

In order to reduce confusion, cruise prices will be required to include government taxes and fees which heretofore have not been included in the price displayed for many lines. All cruise sellers must make this change by Monday, July 1. 

 

Thanks for sharing this.....

 

Just noticed that the large internet TA we use has this new info....this makes my math at getting to the daily fare when comparing cruises so much easier.....It also explains why I thought cruise prices had suddenly jumped in price.....

 

Here is their wording.....

 

NEW! Prices now include port charges and government taxes and fees (previously taxes and fees were charged but were not included in the displayed price).

[SeaMatesNYC]

19 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

That has also been outlawed in EU, since 2018.  It is not permitted to charge more for credit card transactions than for cash transaction.

Interesting. We had a dinner in Copenhagen on June 1, 2024 where the restaurant added a charge for use of a “foreign” credit card. I wonder if they were violating the law you refer to. 

[Haljo1935]

On 6/21/2024 at 6:07 AM, richwmn said:

It is interesting how attitudes change. Long ago cruises were all inclusive and were advertised as one price. The cruise lines did reserve the right to charge more if the port charges and taxes went up. People wanted to see those charges separately, so the cruise lines started selling them that way and started refunding when port charges went down.

 

Now people are complaining about not seeing the full price, and advertising will change again until people complain again.

 

Exactly 🤷‍♀️

I'm good either way it's displayed, but want to see the breakout somewhere in the fine print. It's the only way a consumer can truly compare prices and it keeps the vendors somewhat honest (can't inflate the port fees & taxes).

[VMax1700]

21 minutes ago, SeaMatesNYC said:

Interesting. We had a dinner in Copenhagen on June 1, 2024 where the restaurant added a charge for use of a “foreign” credit card. I wonder if they were violating the law you refer to. 

If it was a regular Personal credit card and you paid in Danish Kroner then it was a violation, if however you elected to pay in USD then it was only a violation if they did not advise you at the time of the cost involved!  If it was an AMEX, Diners or a corporate card, then you can be charged!

  

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/making-receiving-payments/electronic-cash-payments/index_en.htm#:~:text=You're not allowed to,online) made throughout the EU.

[SeaMatesNYC]

1 minute ago, VMax1700 said:

If it was a regular Personal credit card and you paid in Danish Kroner then it was a violation, if however you elected to pay in USD then it was only a violation if they did not advise you at the time of the cost involved!  If it was an AMEX, Diners or a corporate card, then you can be charged!

  

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/making-receiving-payments/electronic-cash-payments/index_en.htm#:~:text=You're not allowed to,online) made throughout the EU.

It was personal card and in Danish Kroner (I never choose USD as they will usually bust the conversion rate). Wow, it was a rather high-end place. I wonder how to go about getting a refund. I suppose contacting restaurant would be reasonable first step. Thank you for the information and reference!