Price increase on Gratuities

[Abercrombie2019]

5 minutes ago, that said:

@memoak

can I ask the source of increase info? 

I know I'm not the person that you are questioning, but I was told about the impending increase by my CVP last week.  At the same time, the CVP also let me know that there would be a $10 fee for people that make reservations at Specialty Dining but fail to show, or cancel less than 24 hours before the reservation.  They also mentioned that there would be a 50% fee for people that do the same thing with 360.  

When I made my reservations for specialty dining on the app on Sunday, there was a warning that no-shows and late cancellations would be charged $10.  

I have no reason to think my CVP doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Cruzbw]

I'm the OP.  Honestly, I don't remember exactly where I heard about the reportedly $1 increase in CA. Probably read it in more than one CC forum comment. Maybe I should have written "the rumored $1 increase." I have not received any Princess notification of this change. And I am not a TA.

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

Excellent - now post exactly who is covered under the CA and what % goes to that department

 

This will be the defintive and final answer needed to determine future threads

If only we could get access to the contract level detail.

 

I have been able to identify most of the job positions in the pool, but not the specific allocations by position. 

Keep in mind that has changed over the years.  There are a few positions i have not been able to lock down as to pool status. 

 

[milolii]

1 hour ago, that said:

Do Not know source of info on any Crew Appreciation increase.  

 

 

I received notification from my CVP.   $1.00 per person per day, effective 08/31.  So before the end of the month.  

[upwarduk]

4 minutes ago, milolii said:

  $1.00 per person per day, effective 08/31.  So before the end of the month.

Hopefully no increase if you have already purchased the Plus Package.

[milolii]

25 minutes ago, upwarduk said:

Hopefully no increase if you have already purchased the Plus Package.

All I know is the CA.  Doesn’t appear to involve a package. 
But, I think the following are all independent of any package. Also effective 08/31. 

$10.00 per person “no show” fee for SD

50% cancellation fee for experiential dinning at 24 hours. 
$45.00 for SD.  

Edited August 22 by milolii

[memoak]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

If only we could get access to the contract level detail.

 

I have been able to identify most of the job positions in the pool, but not the specific allocations by position. 

Keep in mind that has changed over the years.  There are a few positions i have not been able to lock down as to pool status. 

 

When you tip in a restaurant you have no idea how that tip is going to be split up between waiter, bus person, bartender, bar back etc

[voljeep]

6 minutes ago, memoak said:

When you tip in a restaurant you have no idea how that tip is going to be split up between waiter, bus person, bartender, bar back etc

in Oregon, which of those 4 positions you mentioned are covered by the minimum wage, and which are covered by the tipped employee wage?

[memoak]

3 minutes ago, voljeep said:

in Oregon, which of those 4 positions you mentioned are covered by the minimum wage, and which are covered by the tipped employee wage?

Per the state of Oregon website tips are not considered wages. The minimum wage varies by location in Oregon not by type of work. Rural areas have a lower minimum wage than urban areas. They range from just under $14 an hour to just under $16 an hour I believe. 

[TRLD]

27 minutes ago, memoak said:

When you tip in a restaurant you have no idea how that tip is going to be split up between waiter, bus person, bartender, bar back etc

No certainly not. But we are not having reocurring debates about tipping at a restaurant, hotel, taxi, etc.  Only about CA. Consequently i have tried to be as informed as possible, when the usual comments come up.

[cruzsnooze]

It has been established that the pool is fleet wide. It is also established that gratuity is not put on Australia or New Zealand who are in the pool. So we here in the US who are big tippers compared to most countries are carrying the pool for the fleet. I also know from a friend in Corp. that Princess keeps 10% administration fees.

   Everyone is free to do as they see fit as long a the company allows one to decide how much they choose to add to their labor costs.

[TRLD]

14 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

It has been established that the pool is fleet wide. It is also established that gratuity is not put on Australia or New Zealand who are in the pool. So we here in the US who are big tippers compared to most countries are carrying the pool for the fleet. I also know from a friend in Corp. that Princess keeps 10% administration fees.

   Everyone is free to do as they see fit as long a the company allows one to decide how much they choose to add to their labor costs.

Kind of funny. The pool is fleet wide. Wondered when you would bring up that arguement.

 

It used to be pooled by ship by cruise. It was changed to fleetwide to balance out issues between ship itinerary and asignments. This was due to the make up of the passenger base. For example crew members did not like being assigned to ships based out of Southampton because the CA amounts for those cruises would be less than US based ships. This created dissatisfaction with some assignments. To solve that problem they moved to a fleetwide pool that did not have the variance between assignments.

 

As far as New Zealand and Australia passengers, for those ships home ported in Australia and the onboard currency is in Australian dollars, those that purchase under local T&Cs have it imbedded in their base fares, not paid seperately. The same amount goes into the pool, just they do not have the ability to remove it. Will have to check with a fried of mine who now works in the Princess finance department (used to work for me at a different company before i retired) to see if those are processed under Carnival Australia under their accounting rules).

 

As far as your 10% claim I find it rather inconsistent with your earlier position that only $10 actually goes to the crew. Lets see 10% would be $1.65 to $1.75  leaving $14.85 to $15.75 for the crew. You are getting closer but still claiming too high. Try the actual credit card fees. I would suggest that your friend is in error. 

 

Another point about keeping  10%. One of the benefits the cruise line gets by the treatment of the CA as tips is that the money does not go onto the companies books as revenue, and the payments are not expense. They are handled outside of the books in that reguard.  The money received is included as cash and there is a liability (pass through) account showing what is waiting to be paid out. Since this is paid out quickly it  would just show a few of days the flow at any point in time. Something not visible in the financial filings.

 

If they violated the accounting rules they would nolonger have that accounting treatment. The money received would be considered to be income and the payments expense. That would be material to the financials and would be disclosed in the SEC filings.

 

Take a look at the CCL 10k or 10q filings. It is pretty obvious that the CA funds are neither in revenue or expense. If they were in expense they would be in the payroll category. In 2023 CCL had 92,000 ship board employees and 12,000 land based employees as well as 2,000 part time land based employees (especially in Alaska in the cruise season). Ignoring the part time slots, if one divides the money spent on payroll by 104,000 the average is $22,817. Clearly the CA funds are not making it into the payroll category because they are complying with the regulations and getting tip treatment for the CA. Now these are rough estimates but should be close enough.

 

In 2023 CCL lines had 91,400,000 passenger days. Now 22% are on lines outside of the US that do not have daily CA. That leaves 71,292,000 passenger days on lines with CA. Using $16 per day that would yield 1.141 billion per year. Pretty sure that would be material in anyones financial filings if they were not meeting the regulatory requirements for tips.  

 

Lets say that your source was correct 10% would be roughly $114 million. Again a material figure that they would need to explain in the filings

 

Sure you can do whatever you want. The accounting regulations gives you that right. What i take exception with is when you try to attack the system to justify what you are doing.

Edited August 23 by TRLD

[MacMadame]

 

On 8/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Need-a-vacation said:

 So will they increase the price of the plus or premium package to accommodate the  CA increase, and by how much?

Doubtful. It's a dollar.

 

7 hours ago, TRLD said:

Sure you can do whatever you want. The accounting regulations gives you that right. What i take exception with is when you try to attack the system to justify what you are doing.

I don't see this as attacking the system. I see it as spreading misinformation.

[NantahalaCruiser]

On 8/22/2024 at 12:33 PM, julia said:

That poor dead horse...   🐎😢

Now, who wants to debate dress codes? 😅

I have to get dressed???

[ldubs]

On 8/22/2024 at 3:28 PM, memoak said:

Per the state of Oregon website tips are not considered wages. The minimum wage varies by location in Oregon not by type of work. Rural areas have a lower minimum wage than urban areas. They range from just under $14 an hour to just under $16 an hour I believe. 

 

Oregon, like a handful of other states, does not allow tips to count towards the minimum hourly wage.  Tips however are considered taxable wages.  My state is the same.   

[memoak]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Oregon, like a handful of other states, does not allow tips to count towards the minimum hourly wage.  Tips however are considered taxable wages.  My state is the same.   

In other words you pay taxes in the tips but you still make minimum wage at a minimum. 

[ldubs]

Just now, memoak said:

In other words you pay taxes in the tips but you still make minimum wage at a minimum. 

 

 

Yes.  Currently income from hourly wages and tips is subject to income tax.  In our states and a handful of others, tips cannot be considered part of the required minimum wage.  

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

I have to get dressed???

Not on some nudist cruises. I think Celebrity might still do those as charters. 

Edited August 24 by TRLD

[seahorse001]

On 8/22/2024 at 4:32 AM, cruzsnooze said:

The suggestion might increase but it is still at the passengers discretion to adjust or eliminate them. I personally reduce mine to $10 PP PD which is what I believe actually goes to crew after Princess takes their admin fee and does employee of the month and employee incentives and employee party. Many report removing them and using cash to the crew that actually serves them. It is entirely up to you to do as YOU see fit.

   Now the cheerleaders will start posting.........................................................

Admiration for posting this . For the record that is exactly what I do. Not many people 'brave' enough to do it though 

[Cathygh]

14 hours ago, TRLD said:

 

In 2023 CCL lines had 91,400,000 passenger days. Now 22% are on lines outside of the US that do not have daily CA. 

 

 

One of the lines that constitute the 22% you mention is P&O who got rid of tipping quite a few years ago, because so many people were complaining about them removing them.The tips are now included in the fare although we still give a one off tip our cabin steward and any one else who has given us good service, at about £10 ($13 approx) each. 

 

Automatic tipping is not part of our culture, but restaurants and hairdressers do generally get tips of 10% and tax is included in the price so you know what you are paying beforehand.

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, Cathygh said:

One of the lines that constitute the 22% you mention is P&O who got rid of tipping quite a few years ago, because so many people were complaining about them removing them.The tips are now included in the fare although we still give a one off tip our cabin steward and any one else who has given us good service, at about £10 ($13 approx) each. 

 

Automatic tipping is not part of our culture, but restaurants and hairdressers do generally get tips of 10% and tax is included in the price so you know what you are paying beforehand.

I am very familiar with P&O UK. Was on the Iona last year and will be on her again in Sept. I think we were the only passengers from the US on board.

[Cathygh]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I am very familiar with P&O UK. Was on the Iona last year and will be on her again in Sept. I think we were the only passengers from the US on board.

Iona is one of the best P&O ships IMHO. The  obviously pleased you enough to come back! P&O don't really advertise in the US otherwise more of your compatriots would join you.

[wallyj]

On 8/22/2024 at 10:06 AM, Jadn13 said:

The price is currently $16 and it’s increasing  to $17, 

Is this correct? 
 

Per category, Inside/Oceanview’s are currently $16/day going to $17, likewise each higher category is increasing by $1/day.

[Jadn13]

1 minute ago, wallyj said:

Per category, Inside/Oceanview’s are currently $16/day going to $17, likewise each higher category is increasing by $1/day.

Thank You. 

[STLCARDS82]

Remember what the great one said "no tax on tips"