fire onboard Insignia

YoHoHo · December 25, 2014

Actually, what we insure is the possibility of having to cancel a cruise from the time of final payment until the time of the cruise. For example, in 2010 I suffered a small stroke 2 days before we were to begin 24 day back-to-back cruise. We were well into the full penalty period for a refund from the cruise line; trip insurance reimbursed us every cent.

In this case, final payment was 6 months before the cruise. The total was near $100,000; we could not afford to lose that if something happened before the cruise. Yes, the penalties are prorated, so if something happened early in that period we would not have lost the entire amount, but trip insurance requires you to pay the full premium at the time of final payment. We did actually purchase the insurance in July, 2013, insuring the amount we were at risk of losing on the deposit, just to obtain the waiver for pre-existing conditions. We increased the amount to the full price at final payment and paid the premium.

Mark, there are a limited number of companies that will offer insurance for a trip lasting 180 days. Our choice devolved to one, John Hancock, with their Gold policy. We paid over $14K for our category; we have friends who booked a higher category and paid $18K. In both cases we had health concerns that makes trip insurance necessary. Our concern about getting it grandfathered to the 2016 cruise is that John Hancock has changed their policy and no longer insures a trip longer than 100 days. Our agency, InsureMyTrip.com, is holding out hope they will continue to grandfather the coverage, but we won't know until we finalize our 2016 booking, submit the new information and send an email describing the circumstances to be forwarded to John Hancock. If they refuse, we'll be out the $14K and will be looking for new insurance. If it's any solace, we were insured for nearly a year and a half, and the only thing left they could cover would be delay or interruption of the trip.

Argh, what a catch.

I was thing more along the lines of a change in pre-existing condition when getting the new policy vs. the already in place could be problem for some but did not think of no longer getting coverage for such a long period.

Hmmm. P&O Arcadia leaves San Francisco Jan 31. Arrives Mar 25th in Singapore, 3 days after Insignia departs. Maybe they'll wait for you. Or a disembark 3 days early and take a short flight

Just thinking out loud for a work-around. I sure there are many things to consider I have not thought of that went into the planning of your WC. Hope this works out with your insurance at least

iamtrustworthy · December 25, 2014

I always thought you could cancel your trip insurance anytime up until the trip started with no problem. No trip, no insurance needed.

Hi kimanjo,

When you buy trip insurance (or any other insurance policy issued in the USA) you have what's called a "Free Look Period". In most cases, a trip insurance policy will have from 10 to 15 days (depending on the policy) where you can examine to policy and cancel it for a full refund. The only exception is if you bought it at the last minute - then you have to cancel the policy before the trip starts.

Once you are past the Free Look Period, then whether you can cancel it or not varies from company to company. Some companies will refund the premium if you can prove you received a full refund on all your prepaid travel arrangements. Other companies will allow you to change the dates to a new trip where the starting date on the trip is within a certain period of time from the issue date of the policy. Another company will give you a credit to use within months of the date you cancel the policy. Other companies do not give you a refund.

In addition to what I just wrote, who cancels the trip determines if you can change or get a refund on some policies. I know some companies that if the Travel Supplier cancels the travel arrangements they will pay the reissue fee on an airline ticket, or the re-banking fee if you used a FF ticket for airfare you arranged on your own. Other ones will not pay the change fee or re-banking fee for airfare you arranged on your own.

What about the perceived ethics of an insurance company not refunding the price of the insurance? The justification for not giving a refund is this:

For all the months the insured has their trip cancellation policy, had something tragic happened, like the insured getting hit by a cement truck and being forced to cancel their trip, the insurance company would have paid the full claim. That's because the insurance company assumed the risk of a trip cancellation. I've never hear from any person making a claim that it's not fair that the insurance company has to pay such a large amount of money.

If a trip insurance company had to refund the premium because an insured wanted to cancel their policy with the reasoning that they didn't use their policy, then shouldn't an auto insurance company be required to refund all premiums paid over 5, 10, 20, 30 or 40 years if the insured never had a claim? Of course not.

Something similar to cancelling a policy is changing the dates on the policy to cover a shorter trip as is happening with the Oceania Insignia WC. If someone elects to start the WC in Singapore on March 22, 2015, with the ship scheduled to sail the remainder of the original itinerary, then they should keep their same policy but shorten the coverage dates. Whether they get refunds, credit or not varies from company to company.

I hope this makes sense. If not, ask me here.

Steve Dasseos

iamtrustworthy · December 25, 2014

Mark, there are a limited number of companies that will offer insurance for a trip lasting 180 days. Our choice devolved to one, John Hancock, with their Gold policy. We paid over $14K for our category; we have friends who booked a higher category and paid $18K. In both cases we had health concerns that makes trip insurance necessary. Our concern about getting it grandfathered to the 2016 cruise is that John Hancock has changed their policy and no longer insures a trip longer than 100 days. Our agency, InsureMyTrip.com, is holding out hope they will continue to grandfather the coverage, but we won't know until we finalize our 2016 booking, submit the new information and send an email describing the circumstances to be forwarded to John Hancock. If they refuse, we'll be out the $14K and will be looking for new insurance. If it's any solace, we were insured for nearly a year and a half, and the only thing left they could cover would be delay or interruption of the trip.

Hi hondorner,

If you are keeping your same policy, but are just changing the dates, then all the original contract provisions will stay with the policy including the ability to cover a trip of over 100 days in length. That's because insurance is a unilateral contract.

However, there's another policy provision that needs to be ascertained. That is if your John Hancock plan had a time limit (x number of months) in which the policy had to be used after purchase. Some companies require travel be completed within 24 months after purchase, while other companies have no time limit.

That answer will guide whether you can keep your original policy or have to get a new one. It's not an arbitrary decision by the insurance company because they also are governed by their contract language.

Steve Dasseos

iamtrustworthy · December 25, 2014

I was thing more along the lines of a change in pre-existing condition when getting the new policy vs. the already in place could be problem for some but did not think of no longer getting coverage for such a long period.

Hi YoHoHo,

Part of what determines how a pre-existing medical condition is covered (or not) in a Canadian-issued policy versus a USA-issued policy has to do with how the Lookback Period is defined.

In a Canadian-issued Travel Insurance policy, the Lookback Period is a specific number of days before your departure date. However, in a USA-issued policy, the Lookback Period is a specific number of days before your policy purchase date when you are insuring a trip cost.

Here's an example:

- You buy a Travel Insurance Plan on August 20th for a trip departing December 1st and coming home on December 20th. You meet all the other eligibilty other requirements, too.

- On August 29th, you have an angioplasty (never had this nor anything related before) and get a stent that same day. You have a normal recovery.

- On December 13th, something happens with your arteries and you need emergency treatment on your trip.

- Will your Travel Insurance pay your medical claim?

USA-issued plan:

Yes, because the angioplasty happened after you bought the policy

Canadian-issued plan

No, because the angioplasty happened before your departure date

Note: this is different from having a Waiver of the pre-existing medical condition exclusion. Waivers still use the Lookback Period but are governed by more detailed contract wording.

Steve Dasseos

kimanjo · December 25, 2014

Hi kimanjo,

When you buy trip insurance (or any other insurance policy issued in the USA) you have what's called a "Free Look Period". In most cases, a trip insurance policy will have from 10 to 15 days (depending on the policy) where you can examine to policy and cancel it for a full refund. The only exception is if you bought it at the last minute - then you have to cancel the policy before the trip starts.

Once you are past the Free Look Period, then whether you can cancel it or not varies from company to company. Some companies will refund the premium if you can prove you received a full refund on all your prepaid travel arrangements. Other companies will allow you to change the dates to a new trip where the starting date on the trip is within a certain period of time from the issue date of the policy. Another company will give you a credit to use within months of the date you cancel the policy. Other companies do not give you a refund.

In addition to what I just wrote, who cancels the trip determines if you can change or get a refund on some policies. I know some companies that if the Travel Supplier cancels the travel arrangements they will pay the reissue fee on an airline ticket, or the re-banking fee if you used a FF ticket for airfare you arranged on your own. Other ones will not pay the change fee or re-banking fee for airfare you arranged on your own.

What about the perceived ethics of an insurance company not refunding the price of the insurance? The justification for not giving a refund is this:

For all the months the insured has their trip cancellation policy, had something tragic happened, like the insured getting hit by a cement truck and being forced to cancel their trip, the insurance company would have paid the full claim. That's because the insurance company assumed the risk of a trip cancellation. I've never hear from any person making a claim that it's not fair that the insurance company has to pay such a large amount of money.

If a trip insurance company had to refund the premium because an insured wanted to cancel their policy with the reasoning that they didn't use their policy, then shouldn't an auto insurance company be required to refund all premiums paid over 5, 10, 20, 30 or 40 years if the insured never had a claim? Of course not.

Something similar to cancelling a policy is changing the dates on the policy to cover a shorter trip as is happening with the Oceania Insignia WC. If someone elects to start the WC in Singapore on March 22, 2015, with the ship scheduled to sail the remainder of the original itinerary, then they should keep their same policy but shorten the coverage dates. Whether they get refunds, credit or not varies from company to company.

I hope this makes sense. If not, ask me here.

Steve Dasseos

I've purchased Travel Insurance for my cruises in the past. I suppose I've always thought of them as useful for the actual trip. The flight delays, the baggage delays, and mostly for medical coverage, flight evacuation.

Maybe because I've never cancelled a trip and used the insurance BEFORE I left, I just don't think of it for that. I buy the insurance when I make final payment, 90 -100 days out, and nothing has ever happened in that time frame. Now I see it certainly does.

I know it does, but my brain was concentrated on the trip part, not the pre-trip part. We are young-ish 52 and 53 and have no pre-sisting conditions, so we don't think about it much.

This whole World Cruise issue has brought up issues we never really thought about.

Edited December 25, 2014 by kimanjo

LHT28 · December 25, 2014

I know it does, but my brain was concentrated on the trip part, not the pre-trip part. We are young-ish 52 and 53 and have no pre-sisting conditions, so we don't think about it much.

Bad things can happen at any age ;)

We had to cancel our trip the morning of the flight to Florida as DH had a gallbladder attack...no pre existing conditions either for him at the time

Ins paid the full amount covered

Lyn

nana541 · December 25, 2014

Thinking I need to give Steve a call!

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Mura · December 25, 2014

We didn't bother with trip insurance until we started cruising, about 15 years ago. We were still on the young side and didn't have any pre-existing conditions, but because the cruise fare was a big item IF we had to cancel late in the game, it could have been a problem.

Prior to cruising we generally traveled independently, so most things like hotel and airfare were cancellable, within reason.

But we also had parents and other relatives who could have had problems while we were away, so insurance seemed the best bet.

And when in our 40s and 50s, it wasn't that expensive! Now it's a different story.

Mura

RJB · December 25, 2014

Since the acquisition of Oceania by NCL Holdings Inc., Mr. Frank J. Del Rio is no longer in the loop. He is, at best, a figurehead - and not much of one. The real control of shipboard operations and customer relations rests with several "Share Services" vice presidents that manage services across the board for NCL, Oceania and Regent and report to the CEO of NCL Holdings. Check out the "shared services" tab at: http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm

To bad for O and all of us who love this cruise line. Will have to rethink future trips on O without Mr FDR. He has really been the heart and soul and head cheerleader of Oceania. :(:(:(

PaulMCO · December 25, 2014

Since the acquisition of Oceania by NCL Holdings Inc., Mr. Frank J. Del Rio is no longer in the loop. He is, at best, a figurehead - and not much of one. The real control of shipboard operations and customer relations rests with several "Share Services" vice presidents that manage services across the board for NCL, Oceania and Regent and report to the CEO of NCL Holdings. Check out the "shared services" tab at: http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm

Your comments have no basis in fact. What shared services is to centralize all operations for all three lines under a person so that there is economy of scale in purchasing and running the various departments of the three lines. That means F&B, airlines, Shore services and other areas that have been combined. I do not think the being CEO of Prestige which runs O and RSSC and responsible for P&L to the CEO of NCL is a figurehead position.

Some people on this board have wild imaginations.

Edited December 25, 2014 by PaulMCO

Jancruz · December 25, 2014

Originally Posted by dwgreenlee

Since the acquisition of Oceania by NCL Holdings Inc., Mr. Frank J. Del Rio is no longer in the loop. He is, at best, a figurehead - and not much of one. The real control of shipboard operations and customer relations rests with several "Share Services" vice presidents that manage services across the board for NCL, Oceania and Regent and report to the CEO of NCL Holdings. Check out the "shared services" tab at: http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm

I had breakfast with Frank Del Rio just before we boarded Regatta on 12/5 and we had a long conversation about Oceania, Regent and Jason Montague the new president..

Jason has been with FDR since day one of Oceania (as have I) and he told me he could not think of anyone better to lead Prestige..Frank retains the position as CEO and continues to make the decisions but will also help lead and guide Jason through the intricacies of running a cruise line..I can think of no better teacher than FDR..he is one of the most creative men I personally have ever met...I have no doubt there will be some changes BUT I dont think we will be able to tell as passengers..

Jancruz1

nana541 · December 25, 2014

Originally Posted by dwgreenlee

Since the acquisition of Oceania by NCL Holdings Inc., Mr. Frank J. Del Rio is no longer in the loop. He is, at best, a figurehead - and not much of one. The real control of shipboard operations and customer relations rests with several "Share Services" vice presidents that manage services across the board for NCL, Oceania and Regent and report to the CEO of NCL Holdings. Check out the "shared services" tab at: http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm

I had breakfast with Frank Del Rio just before we boarded Regatta on 12/5 and we had a long conversation about Oceania, Regent and Jason Montague the new president..

Jason has been with FDR since day one of Oceania (as have I) and he told me he could not think of anyone better to lead Prestige..Frank retains the position as CEO and continues to make the decisions but will also help lead and guide Jason through the intricacies of running a cruise line..I can think of no better teacher than FDR..he is one of the most creative men I personally have ever met...I have no doubt there will be some changes BUT I dont think we will be able to tell as passengers..

Jancruz1

Thank you for sharing and Merry Christmas!

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LHT28 · December 25, 2014

Jason has been with FDR since day one of Oceania (as have I) and he told me he could not think of anyone better to lead Prestige..Frank retains the position as CEO and continues to make the decisions but will also help lead and guide Jason through the intricacies of running a cruise line..I can think of no better teacher than FDR..he is one of the most creative men I personally have ever met...I have no doubt there will be some changes BUT I dont think we will be able to tell as passengers..

Jancruz1

Thank you Jan

His absence here is felt by many of us

Lyn

RetiredFL · December 25, 2014

Just saw on Seatrader Insider that Insignia will be out of service until March 22 and the world cruise will now begin in Singapore.

Mura · December 25, 2014

Apropos of Jan's comments, I find it hard to believe that NCL would be paying FDR all that money if he were "only" a figurehead.

I can't predict for myself if he will stay on, but if he does, all the better. If he doesn't, then I start to worry.

If NCL really wanted FDR to leave, they could have paid him off with the same package and be rid of him. So far, that doesn't appear to be the case.

That being said, I still don't understand the Kamali situation but he appears to have landed on his feet.

I am willing to continue with my "wait and see" policy.

Mura

hondorner · December 26, 2014

Hi hondorner,

If you are keeping your same policy, but are just changing the dates, then all the original contract provisions will stay with the policy including the ability to cover a trip of over 100 days in length. That's because insurance is a unilateral contract.

However, there's another policy provision that needs to be ascertained. That is if your John Hancock plan had a time limit (x number of months) in which the policy had to be used after purchase. Some companies require travel be completed within 24 months after purchase, while other companies have no time limit.

That answer will guide whether you can keep your original policy or have to get a new one. It's not an arbitrary decision by the insurance company because they also are governed by their contract language.

Steve Dasseos

Thank you Steve,

I've reviewed the detailed Evidence of Coverage and see no such limitation, but not being an expert, it's entirely possible I missed some wording. I'll find out when I next contact my supplier.

I want to explicitly express my thanks for the time you've taken to answer all the questions here, especially in my case when I made no secret of where I purchased it. I've always heard good things about tripinsurancestore.com, and will certainly consider using that service in future, especially since it was not solicited in any way.

iamtrustworthy · December 26, 2014

Thank you Steve,

I've reviewed the detailed Evidence of Coverage and see no such limitation, but not being an expert, it's entirely possible I missed some wording. I'll find out when I next contact my supplier.

I want to explicitly express my thanks for the time you've taken to answer all the questions here, especially in my case when I made no secret of where I purchased it.

Hi hondorner,

You're welcome. I'm happy to help.

Unfortunately, the Evidence of Coverage sometimes leaves out what I consider to be important information, which in this case is when the trip needs to be completed. I suppose not everything can be included.

I suggest you ask John Hancock directly about your policy. Not because insuremytrip would give you the wrong info, but since this is a relatively obscure bit of information, they may not have it readily available.

Steve Dasseos

dwgreenlee · December 26, 2014

Your comments have no basis in fact. What shared services is to centralize all operations for all three lines under a person so that there is economy of scale in purchasing and running the various departments of the three lines. That means F&B, airlines, Shore services and other areas that have been combined. I do not think the being CEO of Prestige which runs O and RSSC and responsible for P&L to the CEO of NCL is a figurehead position.

Some people on this board have wild imaginations.

The basis upon which I report is the NCL Holding Leadership team web site located at: http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm

They have created five vice president positions, under NCL Holdings, for the following functions for all three brands;

Michael Flesch

Executive Vice President, Shipboard Operations