Four Mega Ships for CCL; Maybe one for Hal?

[rkacruiser]

No, I cannot imagine any of these mega ships being placed under either the Princess or the HAL flag. Certainly not Cunard!

 

When the Noordam was docked at Crown Bay in January, I had just retuned from downtown as the Allure of the Seas was finishing docking. I sat on a comfortable bench in the shopping area and did some people watching. After tying up and clearing formalities, 4--yes, 4 gangways were put into place from the Allure and people began streaming off the ship onto the pier. It looked like a bunch of ants departing their ant hill!

 

Mega ships? Not for me!

[Jay Sam]

Even the Koningsdam is pushing it size-wise for us. We're hoping HAL comes out with ships in the 1500 passenger range. Don't want to see any Godzilladam new builds from them. We like cruising for the simple pleasures of cruising. We don't need or want all this "who can ring the bell louder" with the excesses of these giants, no offense to those who love them but, to us, they aren't ships--just amusement parks that distract from those simple pleasures.

 

That would be news that would please a lot of us. A 1500 passenger ship or a few to replace a lot of the ships retiring from the main line fleets.

 

From what I understand, the larger ships have more profit potential, so I don't see this being a trend at least for the main lines. It will be interesting what HAL does next after Koningsdam.

 

Stay tuned. Happy cruising.

[Stakeout]

no more small ships for HAL.. they are not money makers according to some people I've spoken with.. big ships = big bucks and profit

 

as a guess the other 2 ships for CCL might be targeted at the Chinese market as some large ships from Royal already are planning to go and be based there

[Stakeout]

That would be news that would please a lot of us. A 1500 passenger ship or a few to replace a lot of the ships retiring from the main line fleets.

 

From what I understand, the larger ships have more profit potential, so I don't see this being a trend at least for the main lines. It will be interesting what HAL does next after Koningsdam.

 

Stay tuned. Happy cruising.

 

last I heard there is going to be another large ship built like the Koningsdam that will most likely replace at least two of the smaller ships Veendam..Maasdam..Prinsendam in the next few years just as the 'K' replaced the Statendam and Ryndam

[Jay Sam]

last I heard there is going to be another large ship built like the Koningsdam that will most likely replace at least two of the smaller ships Veendam..Maasdam..Prinsendam in the next few years just as the 'K' replaced the Statendam and Ryndam

 

Thanks for the info'. I didn't know Statendam and Ryndam were leaving the US market. Going to P&O Australia. Well the article says 2015 so they may already be there. Thanks again for the news.

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/11114-ryndam-and-statendam-to-pao-australia-as-au-growth-for-carnival-corp-continues.html

[cruisemom42]

 

as a guess the other 2 ships for CCL might be targeted at the Chinese market as some large ships from Royal already are planning to go and be based there

 

I was sort of wondering if that might not be the case.

[ken4556]

While you may not like the bigger ships like Royal Caribbean, but the passenger to space ratio is actually very close or better than the recent HAL ships. For example:

 

Nieuw Amsterdam, PSR of 40.8

Koningsdam, PSR of 37.2

 

Independence of the Seas, PSR of 44.0

Allure/Oasis, PSR of 41.7 (41.1 after rooms were added)

Quantum/Anthem, PSR of 40.1

 

PSR is passenger space ratio. All figures come from Cruise Travel Magazine.

 

If you want to use an example for "packing the passengers in", may I introduce you to the Koningsdam.

 

I am very disappointed that this is the road HAL has taken, I understand all cruise lines are reducing this figure, but the Carnival group seems to be leading the pack.

[Boytjie]

I am sure I read today that two ships are going to AIDA and two to Costa.

[sail7seas]

Those mega huge ships could not be more unappealing to me......

not to mention, I shiver at the thought of an emergency abandon ship. I cannot fathom how all that crew and guest count could safely be safely put into life boats/rafts in anything resembling an organized situation.

 

If this is true, Fincantieri is building Koningsdam and maybe no more HAL ships?

[POA1]

While you may not like the bigger ships like Royal Caribbean, but the passenger to space ratio is actually very close or better than the recent HAL ships. For example:

 

Nieuw Amsterdam, PSR of 40.8

Koningsdam, PSR of 37.2

 

Independence of the Seas, PSR of 44.0

Allure/Oasis, PSR of 41.7 (41.1 after rooms were added)

Quantum/Anthem, PSR of 40.1

 

PSR is passenger space ratio. All figures come from Cruise Travel Magazine.

 

If you want to use an example for "packing the passengers in", may I introduce you to the Koningsdam.

 

I am very disappointed that this is the road HAL has taken, I understand all cruise lines are reducing this figure, but the Carnival group seems to be leading the pack.

 

While I certainly respect your desire to connect with the low information cruise passenger, did you SERIOUSLY read what you wrote?

 

How can you go from discussing Royal Caribbean's space ratios to jumping to the conclusion that "this is the road that HAL has taken?"

 

Honestly!

[sppunk]

While you may not like the bigger ships like Royal Caribbean, but the passenger to space ratio is actually very close or better than the recent HAL ships. For example:

 

Nieuw Amsterdam, PSR of 40.8

Koningsdam, PSR of 37.2

 

Independence of the Seas, PSR of 44.0

Allure/Oasis, PSR of 41.7 (41.1 after rooms were added)

Quantum/Anthem, PSR of 40.1

 

PSR is passenger space ratio. All figures come from Cruise Travel Magazine.

 

If you want to use an example for "packing the passengers in", may I introduce you to the Koningsdam.

 

I am very disappointed that this is the road HAL has taken, I understand all cruise lines are reducing this figure, but the Carnival group seems to be leading the pack.

PSR is highly unreliable for judging space. I've sailed on Independence and it was one of the most crowded, claustrophobic ships I've ever been on. It is second only to Carnival Triumph.

 

But those wishing for a HAL new build smaller than a Signature class ship, it isn't happening. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[ken4556]

The point I was making is although HAL is still building new non-mega ships, the PSR is being reduced. Posters can make comments about no desire to go on the mega-ships and I respect that. But, the data listed in my post, show that that RC's new mega-ships have a higher PSR than the two HAL ships on order. That is what I was comparing, PSR not the overall size of the ship.

 

Size of a ship does not necessarily equal crowds on a ship. PSR does matter as the lower the number, the less public space means more people are sharing the same space.

 

Having been on Eurodam twice and the NA once, I could notice the difference of the increased passenger space sharing the same public spaces, especially with the lost of pool space with the cabanas, compared to the three Vista class cruises I have been on. I was on a megs-ship in April and it was honestly the least crowed ship I have sailed on (25+ cruises).

 

The Vista ships before the cabins were added had a PSR around 44. The Eurodam and NA are at 40.8 while the Koningsdam is at 37.2. That is over 15% less passenger space between the Vista class and the Koningsdam. That is not the direction any of should want HAL to be headed!

[sppunk]

Those mega huge ships could not be more unappealing to me......

not to mention, I shiver at the thought of an emergency abandon ship. I cannot fathom how all that crew and guest count could safely be safely put into life boats/rafts in anything resembling an organized situation.

 

If this is true, Fincantieri is building Koningsdam and maybe no more HAL ships?

 

Fincantieri will be building the second P-class ship, which should sail in late 2018.

[sail7seas]

I know Koningsdam is supposed to have one and maybe two sisters but maybe this super huge mega ship may change those plans.

[sppunk]

The second ship will replace the last S-class ships so I'm sure she'll be built. These four ships are an arm of the previously-announced 9 ship order that K-dam is a member of.

 

These ships are being built at Meyer Werft, not Fincantieri. They're going up in Finland.

[serendipity1499]

This new build would not be appealing to me, but it may be the way HAL will have to go in order to entice the children of Baby Boomers into cruising..

 

Please save for me the Prinsendam, or any of the R & S. ships & I promise to cruise on them till I die! :):):)

Edited June 16, 2015 by serendipity1499

[Modern_Viking]

Based on what I read in the news on Monday:

 

The 4 newly announced ships to be built by Meyer Werft are for European based lines. The first two will be built in Germany for Aida. The other two will be built in Finland, with the branding not announced. Going to Costa seems likely, but it could be Aida or maybe even P&O. The press seems to have exaggerated them somewhat as they are expected to have 5,000 lower berths (i.e. 2,500 cabins). If more than half (but not all) have a third birth, and/or some have a 4th berth, we get the listed 6,600 passenger limit. Ships are usually listed based on double occupancy only. Also, size was listed as over 180,000 tons. So, if the ships are 200,000 tons, that could be a space ratio of 40, based on double occupancy, which is not bad (at least on paper). Anyway, it seems the details are missing for now.

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/carnival-firms-order-for-4-lng-cruise-ships-with-meyer.html

 

 

In other (older) news, it looks like a sister to the Kdam is being built in Italy by Fincantieri for HAL. Delivery is scheduled for around November of 2018. I expect she will be about the same 99,500 tons as the Kdam.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2014/12/19/carnival-holland-america-order/20629477/

[Aquahound]

The Vista ships before the cabins were added had a PSR around 44. The Eurodam and NA are at 40.8 while the Koningsdam is at 37.2. That is over 15% less passenger space between the Vista class and the Koningsdam. That is not the direction any of should want HAL to be headed!

 

I agree with with you and I understand your points. Having actually sailed Oasis myself, and having been through their terminal 4 times now, I know they got passenger flow down to an art. There's times we've walked around Oasis wondering where everyone was. The design is pretty genius wrt keeping people separated.

 

That said, I do not like when PSR gets down into the 30s. Personally, I think that's a product of being under the Carnival Corp banner. Who knows, maybe HAL came up with a genius design of their own where we won't notice the crowds but based on Carnival Corp history, I doubt it. They should take note from RCCL wrt ship design.

[Alphen]

If one reads the official press release of Carnival correctly and thoroughly, you can read that all four ships will go to the Costa Group, which consist of Aida and Costa and will be for the European market!

 

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=200767&p=irol-news&nyo=0

 

 

Carnival Corporation Finalizes Contract with Meyer Werft to Build Four Next-Generation Cruise Ships

The four new cruise ships - part of a previously announced nine-ship strategic partnership for the world's largest cruise company - will be the largest ever built based on guest capacity

The vessels will feature a revolutionary "green cruising" design as the first-ever cruise ships powered at sea by Liquefied Natural Gas, the world's cleanest burning fossil fuel

 

MIAMI, June 15, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK), the world's largest travel and leisure company, today announced it has signed a multi-billion dollar contract to build four next-generation cruise ships with the largest guest capacity in the world. The contract with Meyer Werft is part of larger previously announced strategic memo of understanding with leading shipbuilders Meyer Werft and Fincantieri S.p.A for nine new ship orders between 2019 and 2022.

 

The four new ships will also feature a revolutionary "green cruising" design. The ships will be the first in the cruise industry to be powered at sea by Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) -- the world's cleanest burning fossil fuel, representing a major environmental breakthrough.

 

The company said two of the ships will be manufactured for AIDA Cruises at Meyer Werft's shipyard in Papenburg, Germany. Additional information about the ships, including which new ships will be added to each brand, will be made available at a later date.

 

Based on Carnival Corporation's innovative new ship design, each of the four next-generation ships will have a total capacity of 6,600 guests, feature more than 5,000 lower berths, exceed 180,000 gross tons and incorporate an extensive number of guest-friendly features. A major part of the innovative design involves making much more efficient use of the ship's spaces, creating an enhanced onboard experience for guests.

 

Pioneering a new era in the use of sustainable fuels, the four new ships will be the first in the cruise industry to use LNG in dual-powered hybrid engines to power the ship both in port and on the open sea. LNG will be stored onboard and used to generate 100 percent power at sea \u2013 producing another industry-first innovation for Carnival Corporation and its brands. Using LNG to power the ships in port and at sea will eliminate emissions of soot particles and sulfur oxides.

 

In addition to the two ships being built in Germany, Meyer Werft \u2013 which had the capacity to accommodate these four ship-building orders in its production schedule -- will also build the two additional ships detailed in today's announcement at its shipyard in Turku, Finland. Each new ship will be specifically designed and developed for the brand and the guests it will serve, underscoring the company's goal to consistently exceed guest expectations and provide first-time and repeat guests with the vacation experience of a lifetime on each and every cruise.

 

Carnival Corporation CEO Arnold Donald said the contract is consistent with the company's measured capacity growth strategy to replace ships with less efficient capacity with newer, larger and more fuel efficient vessels over time.

 

"We are looking forward to executing on the next step in our fleet enhancement plan," said Donald. "At a cost per berth in line with our existing order book, these new ships will enhance the return profile of our fleet. These are exceptionally efficient ships with incredible cabins and public spaces featuring a design inspired by Micky Arison and Michael Thamm and developed by our new build teams." Arison is chairman of the board of directors for Carnival Corporation & plc and Thamm is CEO of the Costa Group, which includes AIDA Cruises and Costa Cruises.

 

Added Donald: "It will be exciting to see our shipbuilding team bring these new ships to life. Every step of the way, our focus is on designing state-of-the-art ships that provide a vacation experience our guests will love, and we are putting all of our creative energy and resources into making sure we achieve that goal."

 

"These ships will expand our leadership position for the Costa Group, the market leader in all the major European markets," said Thamm. "These will be spectacular ships designed specifically for our guests who sail on our Costa Group brands."

 

Bernard Meyer, CEO of Meyer Werft, said: "In past years, we have built seven highly successful ships for AIDA Cruises. We are honored that Carnival Corporation has entrusted us with the implementation of this ambitious shipbuilding program, and we look forward to building these four magnificent ships."

 

The new ship order will allow the Costa Group to continue to build on its leadership position in the European cruise market \u2013 a market in which five out of 10 cruise guests in 2014 sailed onboard a Costa Group ship. The Costa Group \u2013 along with Princess Cruise Lines, also part of the Carnival Corporation family -- also occupies the leading position in the rapidly growing cruise market in China.

 

As part of each shipbuilding company's long-term strategic partnership with Carnival Corporation, additional new ship orders are being explored over the coming decade.

 

About Carnival Corporation & plc

 

Carnival Corporation & plc is the largest cruise company in the world, with a portfolio of 10 cruise brands in North America, Europe, Australia and Asia, comprised of Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Seabourn, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises, Cunard, P&O Cruises (Australia), P&O Cruises (UK) and fathom.

 

Together, these brands will operate 100 ships in 2015 totaling 219,000 lower berths with eight new ships scheduled to be delivered between 2016 and 2018, along with four additional new ships on order between 2019 through 2022. Carnival Corporation & plc also operates Holland America Princess Alaska Tours, the leading tour companies in Alaska and the Canadian Yukon. Traded on both the New York and London Stock Exchanges, Carnival Corporation & plc is the only group in the world to be included in both the S&P 500 and the FTSE 100 indices.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Alphen

[Alphen]

March 26 press release confirms spreading newbuilds between Meyer Werft AND Fincantieri!

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=200767&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2029039

 

 

Carnival Corporation Enters into Strategic Partnerships to Add Nine Cruise Ships to its Fleet over a Four-Year Period Starting in 2019

Leading shipbuilders Fincantieri and Meyer Werft to each build next-generation cruise ships for Carnival Corporation through two separate, long-term partnerships

Groundbreaking new ship design will be the most efficient in company history and will further accelerate efforts to deliver an unparalleled cruising experience to millions of guests

 

MIAMI, March 26, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK), the world's largest travel and leisure company, today signed two strategic memorandums of agreement that will add a total of nine new cruise ships to the company's industry-leading fleet over a four-year period from 2019 - 2022. The shipbuilding agreements, which include options for additional ship builds in the coming years, are subject to several conditions, including satisfactory financing.

 

Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri S.p.A and German shipbuilder Meyer Werft will each build new ships based on Carnival Corporation's next-generation ship designs, which will produce the most efficient ships in the company's history. The new ships are expected to serve established cruise markets in North America and Europe, as well as newer markets, including China. Each new ship will be specifically designed and developed for the brand and guests it will serve, and support the company's overall goal of exceeding guest expectations and further elevating every aspect of the guest experience.

 

"We're excited to take this next step in our fleet enhancement plan with these two new agreements that are consistent with our long-term strategy of measured capacity growth over time," said Arnold Donald, president and CEO of Carnival Corporation. "Our goal as a company is to exceed the expectations of every guest on every ship every day, and these new ships will further enable us to do just that. These will be the most efficient ships we have ever built and the great guest experience will create even more excitement around cruising \u2013 helping new cruisers realize the superior vacation experience and value that cruising offers versus land-based vacations."

 

Fincantieri, the world's largest cruise ship building company, will develop and construct five ships at its shipyards in Monfalcone and Marghera, Italy.

 

"I am extremely proud on this truly memorable day for us. Today's announcement provides us with a long-term strategic prospective, and reinforces the extraordinary partnership between us and Carnival Corporation, developed over time thanks to the confidence the group has always shown in us, which we assure will be once again well placed," said Giuseppe Bono, CEO of Fincantieri. "This agreement reflects the exceptional business vision of the world's most important cruise operator, and our readiness and flexibility in interpreting its demands."

 

Bono added, "This agreement is the best reward for our hard work over all these years, and in fact, our organizational, design and production skills have allowed us to consolidate our market leadership, confirming us at the top of such an exclusive and complex industry."

 

Meyer Werft, a leading global shipbuilder founded in Germany in 1795, will build its four ships at its shipyards in Papenburg, Germany, and Turku, Finland. Now in its seventh generation of family ownership, Meyer Werft has become well known for constructing large, modern and sophisticated cruise ships, including 39 luxury ships the company has built for its customers around the world.

 

Bernard Meyer, managing partner of Meyer Werft, said, "We are very happy and honored that Carnival Corporation trusts our strength to bring this ambitious newbuilding program to life in Turku and Papenburg."

 

As part of each company's long-term strategic partnership with Carnival Corporation, additional new ship orders are being explored over the coming decade.

 

Additional information on Carnival Corporation's cruise ship design, and which of the company's nine leading global brands will add these next-generation vessels to their fleets will be made available at a later date.

 

Carnival Corporation's fleet enhancement strategy will add two new ships to its fleet in 2015 and remove four ships from the fleet. P&O Cruises UK officially launched Britannia, the largest ship ever designed exclusively for Britain, in a majestic naming ceremony earlier this month. Later this year, the AIDA Cruises fleet will welcome AIDAprima, which is expected to be one of the most technically advanced and sustainable cruise ships ever built.

 

In addition to these new ships, Carnival Corporation continues to enhance its guest experience on existing ships. The overall fleet enhancement strategy combines new ship builds with an ongoing program to further elevate guest experience across the company's existing fleet and nine brands.

[cbr663]

<snip>If one reads the official press release of Carnival correctly and thoroughly, you can read that all four ships will go to the Costa Group, which consist of Aida and Costa and will be for the European market!

 

That is how I read the announcement also - Aida and Costa. I couldn't understand why there was so much speculation with HAL? Perhaps posters were just not reading the actual release?

[Himself]

Here's announcement

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=140690&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=2059018

 

and a few extracts

 

Carnival Corporation Finalizes Contract with Meyer Werft to Build Four Next-Generation Cruise Ships

 

The four new cruise ships – part of a previously announced nine-ship strategic partnership for the world's largest cruise company – will be the largest ever built based on guest capacity

 

The ships will be the first in the cruise industry to be powered at sea by Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG)

 

... two of the ships will be manufactured for AIDA Cruises at Meyer Werft's shipyard in Papenburg, Germany. Additional information about the ships, including which new ships will be added to each brand, will be made available at a later date.

 

.... each of the four next-generation ships will have a total capacity of 6,600 guests, feature more than 5,000 lower berths, exceed 180,000 gross tons and incorporate an extensive number of guest-friendly features. A major part of the innovative design involves making much more efficient use of the ship's spaces, creating an enhanced onboard experience for guests.

 

Carnival Corporation CEO Arnold Donald said, .... "At a cost per berth in line with our existing order book, these new ships will enhance the return profile of our fleet. ..."

 

I doubt it very much. I believe there will be at lest one more the size of the

Koeingsdam built byFincantieri in Venice.

[Alphen]

I doubt it very much. I believe there will be at lest one more the size of the

Koeingsdam built byFincantieri in Venice.

 

 

Again, if one reads the press releases all the way and not just the latest one's, CCL will spread newbuilds!

 

March 26 press release confirms spreading newbuilds between Meyer Werft AND Fincantieri!

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....cle&ID=2029039

 

 

Carnival Corporation Enters into Strategic Partnerships to Add Nine Cruise Ships to its Fleet over a Four-Year Period Starting in 2019

Leading shipbuilders Fincantieri and Meyer Werft to each build next-generation cruise ships for Carnival Corporation through two separate, long-term partnerships

Groundbreaking new ship design will be the most efficient in company history and will further accelerate efforts to deliver an unparalleled cruising experience to millions of guests