SINGLE HSC/TIPPING THREAD (Previously "Why are gratuities not included in Fares?")

[dot73]

Well said, blizzardboy.

 

Ditto. Some of the excuses are laughable. My feeling is that if you truly cannot afford the HSC, then pick a cheaper cruise or don't cruise at all. I hope that in my lifetime, HAL just adds the HSC to the price of the cruise so the whiners have to find something else to whine about.

[avian777]

... I hope that in my lifetime, HAL just adds the HSC to the price of the cruise so the whiners have to find something else to whine about.

 

... and I have no doubt they would find something ...

[blizzardboy]

Whining about whiners!?! Will it never cease?? :D

[T8NCruise]

Ditto. Some of the excuses are laughable. My feeling is that if you truly cannot afford the HSC, then pick a cheaper cruise or don't cruise at all. I hope that in my lifetime, HAL just adds the HSC to the price of the cruise so the whiners have to find something else to whine about.

 

Cost of HSC is just another part of cost of being on a cruise. I am sad for people who remove it. They must have awful life when stealing from crew is the best choice they can make.

[dot73]

Cost of HSC is just another part of cost of being on a cruise. I am sad for people who remove it. They must have awful life when stealing from crew is the best choice they can make.

 

That's the way I look at it. I'm a 3-star mariner and platinum on Princess and I've never had service that was so bad that it would even make me think of taking off the HSC. The only time that I ever not tipped extra was on a Princess cruise where the room steward was not only incompetent, lazy and snarly and who never failed to remind me when I saw him that extra tips were expected .:eek: That was when Princess was still employing East European room stewards. (BTW, I'm allowed to be politically incorrect as I was born in Eastern Europe:p)

[ithaca gal]

Cost of HSC is just another part of cost of being on a cruise. I am sad for people who remove it. They must have awful life when stealing from crew is the best choice they can make.

 

It's a shame they don't know the joy of sharing!

[cheeto]

Whining about whiners!?! Will it never cease?? :D

 

You should read the threads on my Disney Vacation Club board, they are complaining about the complainers!!

 

It's good coffee reading.;)

[kevingastreich]

Cost of HSC is just another part of cost of being on a cruise. I am sad for people who remove it. They must have awful life when stealing from crew is the best choice they can make.

 

We love giving extra tips to the crew members we like but removing the HSC is not really "stealing" if HAL allows it...is it? :confused:

[Randyk47]

We love giving extra tips to the crew members we like but removing the HSC is not really "stealing" if HAL allows it...is it? :confused:

 

I guess the notion is that HAL went to the HSC for a number of reasons but one of them was to "reward" some of the hidden staff that add a lot to the cruise experience. They were out of sight of the passengers and therefore weren't benefiting from the tips or gratuities given to the more visable staff. Maybe a stretch calling removing the HSC "stealing" but certainly impacts the hidden staff in negative way.

[dakrewser]

I guess the notion is that HAL went to the HSC for a number of reasons but one of them was to "reward" some of the hidden staff that add a lot to the cruise experience. They were out of sight of the passengers and therefore weren't benefiting from the tips or gratuities given to the more visable staff. Maybe a stretch calling removing the HSC "stealing" but certainly impacts the hidden staff in negative way.

 

If HAL really wanted to "reward" these people they should do it with their money - not with mine! I prefer to chose who I will reward - and who I won't.

[RuthC]

... removing the HSC is not really "stealing" if HAL allows it...is it? :confused:

It's not "stealing" from HAL, not because they allow it, but because that's not the entity the money is being taken from. The people who won't be receiving the money have no say in the matter when the HSC is removed/reduced.

 

"Stealing" may be too strong a word, but not by much.

[Randyk47]

If HAL really wanted to "reward" these people they should do it with their money - not with mine! I prefer to chose who I will reward - and who I won't.

 

I actually understand that and don't disagree. Of course I also think that HAL didn't just go to the HSC strictly to "reward" but also to compensate for low or lower wages.

[kevingastreich]

A poster in another thread posted a link to the HAL employee manual. It is quite informative but nowhere in the manual did it say that a crewmember must turn over to their department head a tip from a passenger who reduced or eliminated any or all of their HSC. Maybe I missed it? Besides, how is the crewmember even to KNOW that the person who gave them a tip might not have paid some or all of the HSC? Doesn't make any sense to me. I've given cash tips to many crewmembers and not once was I ever asked for ID so the crewmember could check and make sure I didn't take off some of the HSC at the end of the cruise.

[jtl513]

A poster in another thread posted a link to the HAL employee manual. It is quite informative but nowhere in the manual did it say that a crewmember must turn over to their department head a tip from a passenger who reduced or eliminated any or all of their HSC. Maybe I missed it?

Yes, you missed it. On page 22 it states:

 

TIPPING NOT REQUIRED POLICY

All ships have the Rewards for Excellence (RfE) Plan which

consists of Hotel Service Charges and Beverage Service

Charges. If a guest chooses to adjust out of the RfE Plan

and instead provide cash tips to an employee, the employee

is required to turn in this cash to their Department Head

so the money can be added to the RfE plan. Any “tips”

received above and beyond the guests standard amount

may be kept by the crewmember.

 

I also quoted this same paragraph and gave a link to the document in post #133 of this thread.

 

Besides, how is the crewmember even to KNOW that the person who gave them a tip might not have paid some or all of the HSC? Doesn't make any sense to me.

On the last night before debarkation cabin and MDR stewards are given lists of those who opted out of the HSC.

I've given cash tips to many crewmembers and not once was I ever asked for ID so the crewmember could check and make sure I didn't take off some of the HSC at the end of the cruise.

HAL is not concerned with these generally-trivial amounts. What they care about is someone "opting out" of $500 worth of HSC and "tipping" just their cabin and MDR stewards $100 or less each, stiffing everyone else in the HSC pool. Edited April 15, 2016 by jtl513

[jtl513]

HAL is not concerned with these generally-trivial amounts. What they care about is someone "opting out" of $500 worth of HSC and "tipping" just their cabin and MDR stewards $100 or less each, stiffing everyone else in the HSC pool.

Yes, the stewards that get that cash have to put it in the pool, but the amount is much less than what should have been contributed.

[kftw]

We keep the HSC on but always give something extra to our cabin steward. First time on HAL since the 80's and have always had one steward on our other cruises. I understand we will have two on our upcoming cruise. Do we tip them equally? Do we tip the head steward more? Do we tip the head steward for both & let them distribute their assistants amount? Help! We leave on Monday.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

We keep the HSC on but always give something extra to our cabin steward. First time on HAL since the 80's and have always had one steward on our other cruises. I understand we will have two on our upcoming cruise. Do we tip them equally? Do we tip the head steward more? Do we tip the head steward for both & let them distribute their assistants amount? Help! We leave on Monday.

 

Hi Karen, this is what I do, but you don't have to handle it this way. Anything above the HSC is absolutely at your discretion. I give each of our cabin stewards the same amount because they work together as a team. I put the money in an envelope for each one, with his/her name on each envelope. I write "thank you" and "terima kasih" (thank you in Bahasa, the common language of Indonesia, the housekeeping staff are all from Indonesia, as you probably are aware) on the envelopes as well. Some people add a little note inside the envelope. There should be envelopes in your cabin, and you can also ask for extras at the front desk.

 

Feel free to do as you see fit. Anything over and above the HSC will be gratefully and graciously received.

 

Karin

[kftw]

Hi Karen, this is what I do, but you don't have to handle it this way. Anything above the HSC is absolutely at your discretion. I give each of our cabin stewards the same amount because they work together as a team. I put the money in an envelope for each one, with his/her name on each envelope. I write "thank you" and "terima kasih" (thank you in Bahasa, the common language of Indonesia, the housekeeping staff are all from Indonesia, as you probably are aware) on the envelopes as well. Some people add a little note inside the envelope. There should be envelopes in your cabin, and you can also ask for extras at the front desk.

 

Feel free to do as you see fit. Anything over and above the HSC will be gratefully and graciously received.

 

Karin

 

Thank you, Karin. I had thought I'd tip equally but then I started thinking too much. ha.

 

I like the idea of adding "termia kasih".

 

Thanks again.

[kazu]

We are up to 13 pages of people worrying about what other people do! Let's sum this up - you can have the Service Charge removed, lowered, or increased if you so desire. If you don't want to tip, don't. Just don't give me all your reasons to justify your choice. While it's your choice to be disgusted at the practice of tipping, my choice might be to share some of my good fortune with those who have made my cruise a great experience. Either way, it's no one's business but the two parties involved.

 

Ruth, you are the voice of reason as always.

 

 

What a great post :). Well said!!!

 

 

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[jtl513]

I understand we will have two on our upcoming cruise. Do we tip them equally? Do we tip the head steward more? Do we tip the head steward for both & let them distribute their assistants amount? Help! We leave on Monday.

Since I don't know who has done what in my room, I give one envelope with both their names and a "thank you" note on it.

 

You may have just one cabin steward. When we had a stern corner our guy had just the 8 cabins across the stern and one up each side, while the guys that work in pairs ordinarily have about 30 cabins.

.

Edited April 16, 2016 by jtl513

[teamflames]

Why are stewards and wait staff subject to payment by a discretionary system and those responsible for selling the cruise are not? It would seem to have a massive impact on how much hsc will be available?

I am happy to and will pay the hsc but would be happier to pay more for my cruise and not have to think about this system.

When I have queried this model before I tend to get howled down, I am not sure why as I support the crew being paid fixed wages and removing uncertainty the same as other staff who also impact how much I enjoy my cruise (ie smooth sailing, no mechanical problems etc).

I wonder if part of the reason I get howled down is that those who book in North America seem to receive such large amounts of obc to help tip compared to those from other parts of the world who have to pay tips from their actual wallet?

 

 

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[jtl513]

Why are stewards and wait staff subject to payment by a discretionary system and those responsible for selling the cruise are not?

It is not, and never was intended to be, a discretionary system. You are charged for services rendered each day, and the the only legitimate reason for not paying the charges is if you have not received adequate service. It is supposed to be not unlike any other business, where you can get a refund if you buy an unsatisfactory product. Unfortunately HAL has allowed the refunds for flimsy reasons, or in fact no real reason at all.

 

I wish they would make it much more difficult to have the HSC removed. Maybe they could require a face-to-face sit-down meeting with someone rather than just filling out a form at the front desk. Or they could refund only on a day-by-day basis, within 24 hours of the alleged unsatisfactory service. There would have to be repeated trips to the front desk and repeated claims of unsatisfactory service to duck it all.

.

Edited April 16, 2016 by jtl513

[dakrewser]

Why are stewards and wait staff subject to payment by a discretionary system and those responsible for selling the cruise are not?

 

That's comparing apples and oranges, though. Or, would you expect salespeople and production line workers (for, say, automobiles) to all be paid on commission?

[teamflames]

It is not, and never was intended to be, a discretionary system. You are charged for services rendered each day, and the the only legitimate reason for not paying the charges is if you have not received adequate service. It is supposed to be not unlike any other business, where you can get a refund if you buy an unsatisfactory product. Unfortunately HAL has allowed the refunds for flimsy reasons, or in fact no real reason at all.

 

I wish they would make it much more difficult to have the HSC removed. Maybe they could require a face-to-face sit-down meeting with someone rather than just filling out a form at the front desk. Or they could refund only on a day-by-day basis, within 24 hours of the alleged unsatisfactory service. There would have to be repeated trips to the front desk and repeated claims of unsatisfactory service to duck it all.

.

 

 

 

Why not just either make it compulsory then? Surely if there were problems they could refund or provide complimentary services?

Just not sure why it is the customer responsibility to pay the wages and not the employer, I am happy to have hsc embedded into fare.

Separately, if Hal allows hsc to be removed and the employees are happy to be paid under such a system why do you and others care so much what others do? If it's because of employees welfare wouldn't you support a system that ensures their wages rather than this system which creates all this controversy?

[SLOTheta]

I don't know how old that blog is but that figure of $60/month salary is definitely not true on HAL these days. I know that for an absolute fact. They earn a fairly decent wage. But I do agree with most of the rest of your post, and we tip in appreciation for the service we receive, and especially the room service delivery guy.

 

 

It's probably an old figure. I don't mean to guilt anyone into tipping, but I often change my ways based on stories or people's experiences. From the other posters here, they probably aren't as easily swayed. When I learn of a situation, I take it into consideration.

 

I tip because I want to. I tip because I realize how hard they work and it's a manual job. They may get paid decently, but the bonus in tips could really make a difference to them, but to me, it's only a few extra dollars a day that I won't ever miss. But, knowing that they feel appreciated and that my extra dollar or two will help, I do it.

 

Other people may feel that what I wrote was guilting them, but if they feel guilty after reading a post, maybe they need to look hard and long at themselves.

 

Thanks for tour post!

 

 

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