Noticing increasing number of "Service" animals!!!

[celle]

You don't know what you are talking about. There are few unnoticeable conditions that would quality for a placard. You must have physician certification and the fines are hefty for falsification unlike "service animals". Not all medical conditions qualify but must (in my state) to obtain a permanent placard, you must have a disability that is not expected to improve. A qualifying disability is defined as blindness or any condition that significantly limits a person's ability to walk or that requires a wheelchair, walker, crutch or other assistive device. All of that is counter indicative of someone who hops out of the driver's seat without someone else in the car. Family members who borrow the car with the placard hanging think they can park where they want since the "car is qualifed". No, it is not.

 

 

My son is one that you would assume is not entitled to a handicap parking permit. He is in his early forties. He looks normal. He hops out of his car and walks away, without using any walking aids. That is, if he is having a good day.

 

He has been challenged by people who think they have the right to judge him. His response is either to ignore them , or to lift up his trouser leg and rap on his metal leg, the ask them "You want my parking space? Would you like my handicap too?"

 

When he's having a bad day, my son will be using crutches and you will see that he has only one leg - he has had an above-knee amputation..

 

He can walk normally using his prosthetic leg, but he can't walk far, because his prosthetic leg can cause blisters on his stump. He needs to be able to park close to his destination.

 

Please don't be so quick to judge by appearance alone. You cannot tell whether or not someone has a condition that entitles them to handicap parking permit. How do you know they don't have something like my son has? Or a severe heart or other medical condition?

[Elaine5715]

Not the person you quoted, but here ya go: when a diabetic becomes hyper or hypoglycemic their body produces certain chemicals. These produce an odor that isn't detectable by most humans but IS detectable by dogs. The dog is trained to alert his human when it detects these odors. Is that enough education for ya? If not, feel free to Google it. There are all kinds of info out there if you just look for it.

 

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

[Elaine5715]

Calling 911 for such a frivolous reason should get you a hefty fine too. Put the non emergency parking enforcement number on your speed dial if you're going to accuse total strangers of this.

 

Please just stop. You are embarrassing yourself. How many people have you seen carrying a Labrador retriever around in a chest harness? Hm?

 

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

[BeagleOne]

I don't remember if these were mentioned before but I came across these two facts in some research. One, while service dogs can certainly be in stores and while merchants let in "emotion support animals" to avoid confrontation, the ADA clearly states they cannot be in shopping carts. Two, diabetic alert dogs need to be worn in harnesses next to your mouth so they can detect the changes in your breath.

 

The ADA states no such thing about shopping carts. And diabetic alert dogs do NOT need to be worn in harnesses. Please reread the section you posted. Do you know what "generally" and "may" mean? Your advice to call 911 if you suspect a handicapped parking placard is being misused, is absolutely ridiculous. That's an abuse of the 911 system. Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

And LOL at your example of a blind person hopping out of the driver's seat!

[Karysa]

To be able to get their dog to be able to go in the passenger section of an airline friends of ours had one of the couple certified as having an anxiety disorder. We never asked them if he faked Anxiety to be able to get the dog certified as a service dog but they did joke that they had to get him certified as having an anxiety disorder to be able to have the dog certified as a service dog. In the end after all of that they decided to put the dog in a crate and he travelled with the other animals in the bottom of the plane.

[mom says]

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

 

Next time try citing something that is relevant to to the discussion at hand.

 

The article cited has ZERO to do with an explanation of how dogs are used to alert diabetics. Nor does it support your ridiculous statement about diabetic alert dogs being required to be in a chest harness.

 

Honestly, the utter foolishness is amazing. You are wrong. You aren't going to find any actual facts to back you up, so stop.

[notentirelynormal]

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

Instead of making us all read the whole thing, why don't you just tell us the number or send us a link where it says it is okay for you to call 911 to report what people YOU think are in violation of using a handicap placard. You said quite a few times that you would proudly call 911 to complain about people that you believed didn't deserve the placards and/or had it illegally. So instead of telling everyone that they should call 911 when they see us worthless people using placards if nothing else if someone (how would you really know) is in violation then call the LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENT ON THEIR NON EMERGENCY NUMBER.

 

 

We have a dance studio near where we go to eat twice a week. The parents are always parking in the handicap spot so their little darlings can run out of the studio and hop in their car. So I get your frustration. Not long ago I pulled into the spot next to the handicap spot. The parking lot was not busy at all with the majority of spots empty.

 

So I get out of my car and knock on his window. He is waiting there with his around 8 YO son. I ask him if he is handicapped because he is parked in the handicapped spot. He said no but he would be happy to move if a handicapped person needed the spot. So I explained to him that he was not allowed to even pull into the spot to turn around and that it was a $460 ticket. In fairness, I really didn't remember the actual amount. I tell him that I am handicapped and I am asking him to move. I then further asked him did he really expect an 80 YO man to get out of his car, pull out his walker or cane, walk up to his car, knock on the window like I did and ask him to move. I point out the obvious that the very act of expecting the handicapped person to confront someone to move is ludicrous.

 

 

I told him that the lesson he was teaching his son was priceless. You are teaching him it is okay to break the law as long as you don't get caught or the people you are stealing from (or insert crime here) confronts you and asks you to stop doing it at which point you will but not until politely asked. He moved.

 

Now your being a busy body and encouraging people to abuse the emergency system by calling 911 on people that you believe don't deserve a placard. My daughter has a friend who has both MS and MD. One of the few in the world to have both. She is 40 years old. While she has a push wheelchair she has never bought a motorized one nor has she ever applied for a placard.

 

Bottom line - other people's lives are none of your business. If you feel you must police the rest of the world, please make me someone you call the police on. I would love the opportunity to file a charge against you for abusive use of the 911 system and claiming a false claim against me. I would love to take you to court.

[chengkp75]

The ADA states no such thing about shopping carts. And diabetic alert dogs do NOT need to be worn in harnesses. Please reread the section you posted. Do you know what "generally" and "may" mean?

 

While the FAQ's linked above do not specifically answer the question of whether a service dog can be in a shopping cart, it does say "generally, the dog must stay on the floor", and then gives the exception to this rule, "or the person must carry the dog". This is the rule, the dog can be in two locations: floor, or carried. You are correct that diabetic alert dogs do not need to be carried in a chest harness, but they may. They also don't need to be in a harness if the owner is willing to carry the dog in their arms. But, going back to the first sentence, both in this post and in "Q31" of the FAQ's, there are two locations the dog can be in: floor and carried, no mention of strollers, carts, chairs, couches, etc.

[Vera123]

I'm all in favor of REAL service animals...

 

...but you can get phony "certificates of service" so that the local cat-woman, down the street, you know who she is... can bring little MITTENS on her cruise.

 

I considering bringing my 80 lb Golden Retriever because of my "allergy" to cats. ;) She will sanitize the ship:o

 

Al out

 

 

So what is the problem? have you seen animals pooping all over the decks and you trod in it ?? Barking all day and night?? Shedding hairs in the pool while doing 'doggy paddle' ??

If someone needs an animal to enhance their quality of life and enjoy a cruise, so be it :)

[notentirelynormal]

So what is the problem? have you seen animals pooping all over the decks and you trod in it ?? Barking all day and night?? Shedding hairs in the pool while doing 'doggy paddle' ??

If someone needs an animal to enhance their quality of life and enjoy a cruise, so be it :)

 

Ahh, you're one of those. Having pets enhances many people's lives. It is why they have them. They enhance YOUR life, not mine. I don't care if you have a dog, cat, turtle or snake. They are your pets. If you can't live without them for 10 days then don't cruise. If you can't live without them for an hour while you grocery shop then get someone else to do it.

 

I've had a pet most of my life. I loved my pets. I did not expect anyone else to love MY dog, cat, rate, squirrel, gold fish or rabbits. I find it highly offensive when someone brings Fido into the grocery store. I don't want his fleas or dander all over me. I highly resent your pushing your friggin pet down my face. I was once at the bank and this cute 22 YO was there with her service animal - a goat. Guess what her business was. A petting zoo. Do I really believe it was a service animal - NO.

 

You are not on a cruise so that your fellow passengers can "enhance the quality of their lives". There are people out there that really NEED - not WANT - a service dog and people that abuse the system by bringing the obnoxious little yapper or huge dog with the wagging tail that just slapped my toddler in the face should not be entitled to bring their pets into businesses or hotels or cruise ships because they are so self centered they can't leave their dog at home for 7 short days.

 

Grow up and start thinking about others instead of yourself. Oh, and in answer to your other question, yes, I have been bothered on a cruise by someone's dog yapping away. We hadn't even left port yet. I immediately went down to the Purser's Desk and complained. I was not about to spend the next 10 days listening to someone else's dog. I hope she and her pretty little dog got thrown off the ship. I came on the ship to enjoy the quietness of the ocean, the waves the sea life. Not to listen to your friggin pet that you couldn't part with.

 

This me me me generation has certainly made it hard for people that really need help to get it. We have to weed out the self important people first.

[FredT]

The previous poster sums up my feelings precisely. I HAVE had the pleasure of stepping in the feces of a dog on the elevator of a cruise ship. The same little monster than sat on his owners lap in the MDR, (being fed table scraps by "Mommy") and was left to bark all day in their stateroom while his owner was on a shore excursion.

 

Managements comment to the many complaints? "She has the paperwork, nothing we can legally do".

 

It's gonna come to a head sooner rather than later folks.....

[Ashland]

The previous poster sums up my feelings precisely. I HAVE had the pleasure of stepping in the feces of a dog on the elevator of a cruise ship. The same little monster than sat on his owners lap in the MDR, (being fed table scraps by "Mommy") and was left to bark all day in their stateroom while his owner was on a shore excursion.

 

Managements comment to the many complaints? "She has the paperwork, nothing we can legally do".

 

It's gonna come to a head sooner rather than later folks.....

Well said by you and the above poster.....I cannot imagine encountering this on a cruise..Very disappointed that staff couldn't do anything about it's disturbance of the peace and tranquility that one would expect on a cruise....The occasional loud passenger is to be expected but a barking dog...No :mad:

[Bonnie J.]

I have only seen service dogs leading the blind on cruise ships. These dogs are so well trained they can go to the bathroom when told.

I have also seen their 'potty stop' tucked away in the bow of the ship on a deck not really in an area used by passengers. It was about a 4x4 low box filled with like wood chips'. It was always cleaned with nothing left in it.

This is where TRAINED service dogs go to the bath room.

If I saw a so called service dog in someone's lap in the dining room I would not hesitate to speak to that person and tell them in no uncertain terms go put dog on the floor or take it back to their cabin for my diner!

If I saw 'sxxx' in an elevator tell them to clean it up but I would call service to come do that!

[bUU]

The occurrence of abuse of service animal policies still grossly trails the occurrence of inconsideration for those who need such assistance. The extent to which people and institutions deprive people of their inherently deserved dignity still is so much more of an issue, so much so that the few counter examples are almost insignificant by comparison.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[davekathy]

The previous poster sums up my feelings precisely. I HAVE had the pleasure of stepping in the feces of a dog on the elevator of a cruise ship. The same little monster than sat on his owners lap in the MDR, (being fed table scraps by "Mommy") and was left to bark all day in their stateroom while his owner was on a shore excursion.

 

Managements comment to the many complaints? "She has the paperwork, nothing we can legally do".

 

It's gonna come to a head sooner rather than later folks...

 

And the owner claims it is a support or service dog. Bull...t! Guest Services would have been real sick and tired of me real fast if that mutt was next to our cabin.

 

I hope sooner than later!

[navybankerteacher]

The occurrence of abuse of service animal policies still grossly trails the occurrence of inconsideration for those who need such assistance. The extent to which people and institutions deprive people of their inherently deserved dignity still is so much more of an issue, so much so that the few counter examples are almost insignificant by comparison.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

While it is true that the genuinely handicapped should be give leeway and assistance, I am afraid that you have missed the point of this thread . It is the fakers and frauds who take advantage of the deference the majority are willing to show the impaired who are being addressed here. Not only are they imposing on their fellow passengers, they cause many to suspect the genuineness of the needs of the truly impaired.

[navybankerteacher]

So what is the problem? have you seen animals pooping all over the decks and you trod in it ?? Barking all day and night?? Shedding hairs in the pool while doing 'doggy paddle' ??

If someone needs an animal to enhance their quality of life and enjoy a cruise, so be it :)

 

Are you serious??? Do you really believe that if someone simply decides that his/her "quality of life" would be "enhanced" by bringing a pet along -REGARDLESS OF ANY REAL NEED - they should be able to bring pets where pets are not welcome?

 

There are a number of things I would like to see on cruise ships which would enhahance my "quality of life" - but I do not believe that my whims trump other people's rights. A genuine need - of course, but self-prescribed "comfort" H### NO!

[bUU]

While it is true that the genuinely handicapped should be give leeway and assistance, I am afraid that you have missed the point of this thread.

Not at all. Rather you've missed the point, which was that the focus on the abuse is excessive, and damaging. Cavalier and caustic some of the regard for others is, without anyone being in a position to actually know the circumstances of the people about whom they are directing such regard.

 

I'm on vacation this week. There are a lot of folks here using wheelchairs and pcvs. The inclination of many, in discussion forums regarding this place, is to assume that many are abusing the availability of such assistance, and in response they adopt a general intolerance. It's wrong, in a word, to regard others in such a manner when you don't even have standing, much less qualification, to assess their condition with integrity.

 

These considerations exist and are offered for real, legitimate reasons. It serves no constructive purpose to foster unsubstantiable antipathy for people who avail themselves of such considerations. Without socially redeeming value, such unilateral criticism demands to be balanced. We need more concern and consideration for others, not more suspicion and fodder for comparatively baseless ill-regard.

Edited March 9, 2017 by bUU

[navybankerteacher]

Not at all. Rather you've missed the point, which was that the focus on the abuse is excessive, and damaging. Cavalier and caustic some of the regard for others is, without anyone being in a position to actually know the circumstances of the people about whom they are directing such regard.

 

I'm on vacation this week. There are a lot of folks here using wheelchairs and pcvs. The inclination of many, in discussion forums regarding this place, is to assume that many are abusing the availability of such assistance, and in response they adopt a general intolerance. It's wrong, in a word, to regard others in such a manner when you don't even have standing, much less qualification, to assess their condition with integrity.

 

These considerations exist and are offered for real, legitimate reasons. It serves no constructive purpose to foster unsubstantiable antipathy for people who avail themselves of such considerations. Without socially redeeming value, such unilateral criticism demands to be balanced. We need more concern and consideration for others, not more suspicion and fodder for comparatively baseless ill-regard.

 

If you took the time to notice the theme of this thread, you would realize that it focuses on phony service animals. Most posters have stuck to the point - I have not noted any claiming that people are pretending to need wheelchairs or scooters. I am, however, aware of a number of cases where people bring their "fur babies" because they "need" them.

 

It is totally appropriate to express antipathy towards those who shamelessly exploit the gullibility of others.

[bUU]

If you took the time to notice the theme of this thread, you would realize that it focuses on phony service animals.

You mean, on the assumption that such service animals are phoney.

 

We disagree. You feel that such assumptions and cavalier disparagement should have free reign. I don't. Let's just disagree agreeably.

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[lostspoke]

I dont't have any good suggestions on how to "weed out" abuses of Service Dog Animal utilization. It is an extreme shame to read of behavior that is contrary to the requirements of service animal certification practices. These items sited exhibit behavior that would remove any animal from the program. Being a handler of a service animal that cruises, I see these allegations driving those of us that utilize service animals to avoid direct public contact more and more often. On board I always try to avoid direct contact with groups of people. My biggest compliment is when the service animal is under the table and when we leave staff and others around mention that they did not even know she was there. We try to be as invisible as possible and threads like this just makes everything that much more uncomfortable. Our intent when asked questions to be as good ambassadors as possible by example. We were also on the Mexican cruise that was the precursor of the on the one that went on to Hawaii this year that NavyBankerTeacher was scheduled to go on. Anyway, just my two cents as I suspect some of us might meet in the future. This year we still intend to do Alaska and hope to continue to make a positive example of a Service Dog team to provide standard of behavior for public opinion.

[chengkp75]

You mean, on the assumption that such service animals are phoney.

 

We disagree. You feel that such assumptions and cavalier disparagement should have free reign. I don't. Let's just disagree agreeably.

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Well, the assumption that I go on is that if the dog, one does not relieve itself on command, two does not remain on the floor or in the owner's arms, three barks at all hours for extended periods, and four is left alone in the cabin while the owners are ashore, and five jumps around and yaps and licks, or any one of these, then a big yes the animal is a phony. These are the basic requirements for good behavior of service animals as outlined by DOJ.

 

I have worked with cruise ships to ensure compliance with ADA, and have had legitimate service animals onboard and had no issues with their accommodation to shipboard life, but I have also seen pets brought onboard as service animals, and the issues that they cause for both crew and passengers.

[navybankerteacher]

You mean, on the assumption that such service animals are phoney.

 

We disagree. You feel that such assumptions and cavalier disparagement should have free reign. I don't. Let's just disagree agreeably.

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

We are talking about phoney service animals - not about assumptions. I have seen enough examples of people with pets as opposed to service animals --- which is a defined term describing animals which may be brought into environments where pets are not permitted.

 

I will accept your politically correct disparagement of my views concerning the abuse of the exceptions granted to genuine service animals as "cavalier", and hope that you will at least consider that abuse of such exceptions might lead to restrictions which would make obtaining such appropriate exceptions more difficult.

[CPT Trips]

Well, the assumption that I go on is that if the dog, one does not relieve itself on command, two does not remain on the floor or in the owner's arms, three barks at all hours for extended periods, and four is left alone in the cabin while the owners are ashore, and five jumps around and yaps and licks, or any one of these, then a big yes the animal is a phony. These are the basic requirements for good behavior of service animals as outlined by DOJ.

 

.

 

Amen.

In many years working in advocacy and service provision for people with disabilities I have seen very few service animals treated by the handler as a pet.

[NLH Arizona]

 

I have worked with cruise ships to ensure compliance with ADA, and have had legitimate service animals onboard and had no issues with their accommodation to shipboard life, but I have also seen pets brought onboard as service animals, and the issues that they cause for both crew and passengers.

Did the cruise line kick off these pets/fake service dogs for their behavior? If not the cruise lines just exacerbates the issue by allow these folks to get away with it. If the cruise lines and all businesses would kick dogs out for behavior unbecoming a service dog which is outlined on the ADA website (being fed at a table, sitting on a table, sitting on a chair, pooping or peeing outside where they should, barking, being aggressive, etc.), folks would eventually stop bringing untrained pets on ships or in businesses.