Warning - do not sail Celebrity with young children

[villauk]

No I would be furious. If I knew who the person was and had access to him/her, I would be facing charges myself.

 

But you have no choice, you have to trust people.

The alternative is that you give up your job and home school your kid and not allow them to join group activities, not allow them to play sports, not allow them time with friends or familymembers,...

Keep in mind that in almost all cases, the offender was a family member or a friend or a coach, ...

 

That said, if I felt in any way uncomfortable with the people or the situation in the fun factory, I would immediately pull my son out.

I would also never put my son in an unmonitored situation such as the in-cabin babysitting.

 

Agree totally ;). Additionally, that's what the OP did: pull her children out because she wasn't comfortable. It's entirely their decision, but others have not had the same experiences as the OP and have felt comfortable with allowing their children to participate in the facility.

[dkjretired]

No I would be furious. If I knew who the person was and had access to him/her, I would be facing charges myself.

 

But you have no choice, you have to trust people.

The alternative is that you give up your job and home school your kid and not allow them to join group activities, not allow them to play sports, not allow them time with friends or familymembers,...

Keep in mind that in almost all cases, the offender was a family member or a friend or a coach, ...

 

That said, if I felt in any way uncomfortable with the people or the situation in the fun factory, I would immediately pull my son out.

I would also never put my son in an unmonitored situation such as the in-cabin babysitting.

 

Just as an FYI and not taking any sides here but I believe Celebrity's in cabin babysitting policy is two people are sent.

[AnOnymously]

Agreed.

 

All that has been mentioned here is a perceived safety issue, rather than an actual safety issue.

 

I qoted a real case of sexual assault on a cruise line. For me it only takes one case. Sexual assault of kids in UK is not an everyday thing like burglaries, but the amount of time and energy devoted to prevention is enormous. Why? Because it can scar a child for life, not just for the cruise. I am in utter amazment at how easilly you would allow activies that even have the potential for succh devastating harm.

 

I just wonder what you would say if it were your child/grandchild/nephew/niece who was abused? Would telling yourself it was the only one help you?

 

To the op, if you booked the cruise in the UK the contract is in the UK and Celebrity UK can be held re sponsible if the advertise activities and do not properly care for the participants. It might be that if only one person is on duty that they broke their own policies from what has been previously said.

[cathep]

Here's my kindergarten class picture when I was a kid in Canada. :p

 

Good memories....

 

 

Are you sure that's not a scene from The Meaning of Life? ;)

[ChucktownSteve]

Here's my kindergarten class picture when I was a kid in Canada. :p

 

Good memories....

 

 

Only one kid out of 50 or so smiling? lol What good memories?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc

[ChucktownSteve]

How often do you hear about the dozens of kids who routinely wander away from the club and are lost at sea? Or those that sail away in life boats to start a new colony? All of these "what-ifs" are speculation, and you're buying the OP's premise wholesale. In terms of accidents, the staff would call the appropriate personnel to assist (medical, security, management) and help would be there immediately. You don't have to have physical bodies within 10 feet of a child (or adult) to receive a quick response in a closed environment like a ship at sea. See the comment about kindergarten class sizes in the US. One adult can watch a room of 15 kids easily when other resources are nearby.

 

Ultimately, the parents have a right to not utilize the facility if they don't like what they see.

 

I was on a Celebrity ship a couple of years ago when the "code phrase" was announced over the ship's PA with location at the pool. Within two minutes over a dozen staff converged on the scene from all directions with equipment and a stretcher. They train for situations.

[norwegianwood57]

Where is the like button?

 

Thank you so much for posting this.

[RCKM43]

My daughters school always had a two week half term in October in Lincolnshire. The point I am making, is that there is an assumption that the OP has taken her children out of school. May be she has, may be she hasn't.

 

In addition, the Government's stance on children being removed from school during term time has taken a knock through the courts lately. Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

 

I might have missed a comment but I don't think anyone was knocking the OP for taking kids out of school. That is her personal business. School breaks were mentioned only because in the US that is when most families travel. You will find cruises in general will be full of families at those times. But breaks in other countries or kids homeschooled who might travel outside of the traditional Christmas, February, Spring breaks or summer, might find a slight increase, but much fewer children than the traditional US breaks. The simple fact is that there are certain weeks that are historically family cruise times. Outside of those I imagine they staff differently for a week they expect 20-100 kids on board versus say 250-500 kids sailing. That could possibly be why the people who seem the happiest seem to mainly travel during more busy times/itineraries.

 

 

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[Charles4515]

I think "Warning-do not sail Celebrity with young children" is extreme. I have been reading this forum for years and never heard any complaints like those posted. They should have posted "I will not sail Celebrity with young children" or "I think Celebrity's program of young children is bad." And explain their point of view.

 

As for whether children belong on Celebrity. Of course they do. Whenever I book I expect there will be children onboard. Celebrity may not best cruise line for children as far as activities. I have noticed other cruise lines are more family oriented but that does not mean the program is bad. Parents booking should research the programs and decide how much weight to put to those programs. Not all children or families are the same.

 

 

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Edited October 28, 2016 by Charles4515

[KCharretier]

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories. I will never sail with Celebrity.

 

 

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[stratixman]

I read the OP's post and many of the replies. Let's consider some of her points.

 

“They (her children) were quickly told that it was not time to play and was just open house for sign up.”

 

What doesn't the OP grasp here? " just open for sign up". Duh. By the OP’s own admission there was one person signing up participants. That means there were no other celebrity staff present at that time to monitor and supervise children who might engage in play at that time. Since the parent(s) would have been busy signing up who would they have held responsible for oversee the children? OP post later complained about an inadequate number of supervisory personnel. In this case there would have been zero supervisory personnel.

 

“ dangerous ratio of staff to children”

 

That is a subjective opinion on the part of the OP. Neither right nor wrong. My state regulations for child day care providers mandates a minimum staff to child ratio of 1:10 for preschoolers and 1:15 for school aged children. A 1:11 staff to child ratio she observed thus does not strike me as an extreme or unsafe ratio. If that is not the norm in the UK, ok. But chastising the cruise line about this seems inappropriate. Plus wouldn’t it be the OP’s responsibility to inquire about this prior to enrolling her kids instead of carping about it several sessions on board later and implying that the cruise line is irresponsible because it doesn’t match up to her home country’s standards? Once underway did she expect them to airlift in an additional personnel just to watch her children?

 

“The Fun Factory area is not secure and children can get out without adult help in to the rest of the ship with open deck only being one level below.”

 

I have no way of knowing this to be the case. But the OP's s assertion appears to be contradicted or discredited by others who have posted responses stating that the Fun Factory door is locked during operating hours.

 

"Large age range together”, and then “The age ranges had been put together so it was 3-8year olds.”

 

What does the OP think an appropriate age range would have been? The OP said she counted 11 children. What were the ages of of the eleven? If it is assumed an even split across say 4 different ages, is the OP suggesting that Celebrity should have segregated them into four groups each with separate supervision, thus needing 4 supervisors for 11 kids total? Or if there was one 8 year old and the rest were 5 and under, one staff for the 8 year old and one or the rest? I'm perplexed by her complaint. In the US it is probably most common for day care providers to supervise single groups comprised of children spanning the age range, or even greater, that the OP is complaining about.

 

“By this point my children were playing Lego (which we had gone out and purchased ashore) and Uno in the martini bar or Sky Lounge (when available as this is often shut at peak times for 'private functions').”

 

I must be missing something here? The purpose of the Martini Bar and Sky Lounge are anything but to provide alternative play areas for children. So why is the OP complaining that these might not have been available to address the demands for her children to have an alternative play space to the Fun Factory? If indeed the areas were not being occupied then I doubt anyone would object to the children playing with their legos there. However the OP comment seems to imply there were no suitable alternatives for where her children could play. I haven’t been on the Eclipse for a while but I seem to recall there being a card room on Deck 9 and a library on Deck 10, not to mention numerous other seating areas about the ship in every public area.

 

I personally believe that the OP’s complaints are overly critical. Warning others to avoid taking their children on Celebrity is totally off the wall. My personal impression is that I think the OP was expecting the Fun Factory experience to be a some enhanced form of one on one baby sitting service for her children. Wrong. If she wanted baby sitting she could have paid for that as a cruise option. I am somewhat surprised she didn't complain about not being compensated by Celebrity for the cost of the Legos and Uno game she bought.

[awhcruiser]

I will gladly take your place.

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories. I will never sail with Celebrity.

 

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[jonsmum]

Wow! There are some seriously judgmental people on here. Hope I never end up on the same cruise as them.

 

OP - thank you for voicing your concerns. You have highlighted some issues that might well be of concern to other parents. I for one would never have considered it necessary to check the child/staff ratio in the Fun Factory before booking our grandchildren in, when they finally get to sail with us. Having worked with children all my life, for me it is a given that youngsters are never left alone with just one adult that they don't know. Ever. I now realise it is wrong to assume that all countrys take safeguarding as seriously as I am used to. Not just from the childs viewpoint, but I wouldn't want to be the adult placed in that situation either.

[ECCruise]

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories. I will never sail with Celebrity.

 

Well, since there is such a huge divergence of opinion here, not sure what would cause you to make that statement. :confused:

[dkjretired]

Well, since there is such a huge divergence of opinion here, not sure what would cause you to make that statement. :confused:

 

Got me scratching my head also since this poster went on Eclipse last year and said it was awesome.????

[upwarduk]

 

Call me curmudgeon or whatever you like, but sailing during non-holiday (US definition of holiday) periods I prefer to not have to share my space with young children.

 

In the U.K. The last week in October is School Half Term holiday, so there probably are more children on board.

[Marelaine]

I don't think the OP should assume the standards for a UK nursery, and maybe a lesson learned to make enquiries before you make a reservation. We travel with our adult disabled daughter and always make sure we confirm all those little details before we travel.

I am surprised at the intolerance shown here to families. Cruising is a great family holiday. It may be the OP wanted to keep the issue visible, but the ship wouldn't be able to whistle up an additional skilled person for this role during the cruise. However there is nothing which says children have to go to the childrens club. They are just as entitle to enjoy themselves as everyone else. We have wanted on occasion wanted to play cards in the games room as a family only to be shushed by Bridge players. We have wanted a coffee in café Baccio or a meal in the aqua café only to find them occupied by adult card players, or those wanting to read a book or sleep all day. I do think it is insulting to suggest that Disney is a fit for all families, certainly not mine! It is as insulting to suggest older people move to HAL or Saga! Can I make a plea for tolerance here!

 

I don't think the OP should be criticised. Certainly in the UK it is not unusual for families with children to be seen in bars and pubs.

 

+1

It's very rude to assume OP has allowed her 4 and 5 year old children to belly up to the bar with their Legos in the evenings while she sips martinis. She has paid full fare for her children and they are entitled to space as well as any other passenger.

[DaisyFire]

I really am quite shocked at some of the replies on here.

The poster posted this on the Pando board as well, and maybe because our rules are more stringent than Celebrities people thanked them.

I do not like children, but if a cruise line advertises that it has facilities to cater for children, would you not assume that they would be fit for purpose.

To actually find out that not really fit for purpose until onboard does not help.

Pando's childrens clubs have a good reputation. Those with families may stick with Pando.

From what I have read children adore the kids clubs on Pando ships. It is not used as somewhere to dump your children. They actually have enough staff to entertain the children and make them want to go back.

If Celebrity just want adults to be on their ships surely the age demographic heads northwards.

 

It seems appropriate to point out that it is the OP's opinion that the kids club was not 'fit' and that judgment was made based on 1) experience during the sign-up process and 2) the staff to child ration vs. her expectations. I don't believe her children ever actually set foot into the kids clubs while they were actually open for that purpose.

 

However, I have read through most of the posts here and see many folks who have actually had children use the childcare facilities on Celebrity - some multiple times - and all of them were well-satisfied and had not had any problems that were concerning to them...

 

So to point out that the P&O crowd was more receptive to her post is rather ludicrous. If they had no experience regarding Celebrity child care onboard, what else were they to say besides thank you for the information?! :confused:

[warmwinds]

I don't believe her children ever actually set foot into the kids clubs while they were actually open for that purpose.

 

No, I don't think that's true - if you reread her OP, they went the first day, and a couple of days after that, and said they had a good time. It was the parents' concerns about their safety to not let them go back.

[villauk]

In the U.K. The last week in October is School Half Term holiday, so there probably are more children on board.

 

One week for the majority of schools in the UK. I believe this is a 14 night cruise? And I'm not implying that the OP has taken her kids out of school, before anyone makes a comment, just that the huge majority of schools are not on a 2 week vacation.

Edited October 28, 2016 by villauk

[awhcruiser]

Thank you so much for posting this.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response!

 

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[fshagan]

Quebec:

 

Daycare (all time): 6 to 1

Kindergarten: 10 to 1 (when on a trip):

Primary school: 10 to 1 (when on a trip):

Secondary school (when on a trip): 15 to 1.

 

But don't forget that you're on a ship, sometime far from shore and medical facilities not readily available. I don't think international laws applies to children ration on a ship. They follow the minimum.

 

And beside, how much do you think a day car worker gets on a ship! The only reason I see cruise line not providing more service is $$.

 

The kid's club is more akin to a classroom than a day care facility. California has similar ratios for day care, including home-based day care, but class sizes are much larger. And the parents on a ship can be summoned quickly ... they don't have to drive an hour or more from work to the school if there's a problem. The medical facilities on ships are pretty good too, much better than any school's facilities.

 

Children's counselors report they earn from $1,600 to $2,500 per month on other cruise lines (the site glassdoor.com has self reported salary levels). None have reported their salary on Celebrity, but all the wages are consistent from line to line in other areas, so there's no reason to think that Celebrity is paying any less than that ... especially for people with college degrees. That range includes the median household income level in the US of $51,000 (I'm assuming the spouse works at a similarly paid job for a total household income of $38,000 to $60,000 ).

[RMMariner]

We cruised on the Infinity to Alaska last summer with our children. We enjoy cruising on Celebrity as a couple, but we would not take our children again. The Kids' Club was not great, and from what we experienced the rest of the ship is really not geared for children. We will try another line when we cruise with our kids again.

[pasto5]

Hmmmm. We have taken our now 7 yo granddaughter on two Celebrity cruises as well as a Disney ,Carnival and Princess ship. We have enjoyed each cruise and the Celebrity and Disney child programs have been the best. We are sailing on a 14 day cruise with her this December and yes....gasp.....she is missing 11 days of school with the support of our public school administration. Sorry others have not had such a good experience but our granddaughter begs to go to the kids programs .

 

 

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[spookwife]

The OP seems to be obsessed with safety. We are mid 40s with no kids. We like to wander the decks at times just to get out and about. On occasion we have found ourselves in the general vicinity of the kids club. When it is operating, do not even THINK about lingering or peering into the spaces. The staff very quickly will approach you with all the demeanor of a rabid she wolf defending cubs. We get shooed away. Politely but firmly. They are extremely vigilant and if they do not recognize you as a parent, you are made very aware your presence is under suspicion

 

 

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