Jews--Consider avoiding sailing with celebrity over the High Holidays

[CruiserN1]

I am a person of religious faith and there are certain times of year when I wouldn't think to vacation because the spirit of the religious holiday does not align with the atmosphere of a vacation, especially on a cruise ship where one cannot be guaranteed a religious service of any kind, let alone one that aligns with one's spiritual desires and needs for that holiday.

[dszrew]

Seems to me the complaints as well as suggestions on what to do differently for Celebrity are:

 

1. Services were not held on the expected and traditional day. OP points out many organized and "informal" gatherings being held on embarkation day, so not allowing a religious service, which may be no more organized than other activities, seems to discriminate on religious grounds. Some may claim religious services are different than secular group gatherings, but on what basis? Just because they are "informal" or not carefully organized? Cruise lines will often put on embarkation day events that certainly involve more planning and execution than simply setting aside a room for a Rabbi and others to gather and do as they please.

 

2. Times for scheduled services not listed in the daily activity, even though many other special interest group meetings were listed. Is there a clear and equitable standard for what gets listed in the daily postings or not?

 

3. Insufficient time for the event. Half an hour seems insufficient for any type of religious service, especially when other secular activities and groups are routinely scheduled for an hour.

 

Personally, I do not expect a cruise line to provide me with a religious experience. If that is my goal, I schedule my vacation around what is important, or I seek that out in some other way. I do not expect a secular business to provide me religious activities, nor would I find them particularly capable in doing so.

[Bo1953]

s - Thank you for your post and sharing your experience. While I only celebrate the High Holy Days, I would never think of taking a cruise during this time unless I brought a Rabbi with me.

 

Over the years on various vacation types/styles I have found it easier to work around observing the Holiday(s) instead of bringing one, far more economical for me. They and their spouses had a nice time though and I Am happy for that... but the cost has outweighed the convenience, for me at least..

 

Religious services on most cruise lines are at the bottom of the list to worry about, as far as I have experienced and that is fine unless it is a pilgrimage, as such.

 

Which gives me an idea now to post if anyone who celebrates the HHD's and sailing if they would like to share in the cost and I would arrange to get the worship space in advance or upgrade to a suite in order to accommodate.

 

Thank you for your post regardless.

 

bon voyage

Edited November 3, 2016 by Bo1953

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

Like "Flamencacha" I too am a Catholic. Celebrity promises a Catholic Priest & daily Mass during Lent. Several years ago we sailed on the Silhouette during Lent and there wasn't a Priest onboard. I later learned that only about half the sailings have a Priest. This year we sailed on Reflection. This time we had a Priest onboard. Then I found out that when they promise daily Mass I was wrong to assume that "Daily" didn't mean every "Day". I think they only "allowed" the Priest to offer Mass on sea days. :mad:

[bphman]

The reason why there are so many threads is because the OP started 4 different ones. Don't understand why. One is sufficient to keep it in the same tone.

[rotoal]

Three of the threads have been moved.

 

I don't understand why anyone would take a cruise during the High Holidays, and then expect to have a service that met all of their needs.

 

What many people in the general population don't realize is that membership in a synagogue is quite optional (many congregations are failing due to lack of membership), and that instead of spending money on a synagogue membership, this person probably used those funds to take a cruise. While I personally would not EVER take a cruise on any Jewish Holiday (I like my own cooking for the major holidays), I definitely would not take a cruise during Yom Kippur - maybe the OP should ask Celebrity to refund the food portion of their cruise for the 25-26 hours during Yom Kippur that he and his wife fasted and didn't partake of any food.

 

The real clue to me that the OP probably doesn't have all of his facts straight is that he complained that Yizkor services were over at 11:15. "Yizkor Services were over at 11:15--was my fast over?? I broke my fast at the Elite cocktail hour." Quick religious lesson - the Yizkor (memorial) part of the Yom Kippur service is also held on 3 other holidays, there is no correlation between eating and Yizkor. The only reason that most synagogues have Yizkor services in the late morning, or the early afternoon is because the 11 am slot is for the Rabbi to have a long sermon. And not to judge, but I bet that the Elite cocktail hour was held long before time to break his fast.

Edited November 3, 2016 by rotoal

[spookwife]

If you are that devout, whatever your chosen faith, then you would never even fathom deviating from your standards for a mere cruise/ vacation.

 

 

 

 

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[donaldsc]

My wife and I are Jewish and booked a Summit Canada /New England cruise sailing on Oct.2 realizing that it would encompass the Jewish High Holidays--The brochure stated that (and confirmed by Captains club reps )a Jewish Rabbi would be on board--We thought that that meant that services would be conducted---WRONG--At 12:30 we were on the Summit and asked guest services about the time and place for the evening Rosh Hashanah services --The daily summit did not mention any service --it did list a time and places for the friends of BillW and the LGBT to meet. I was told that services were scheduled for the next morning--and that the Rabbi was on board. I spoke with( I believe was the activity director )a person who told me that we never hold services on the day of embarkation( apparently in the past a ship sail was delayed because a rabbi was late) and could not accommodate my request. The head of guest services told me the same story. I was upset --angry and livid--what a way to start a lovely cruise . We could have booked the previous cruise.--to be cont.

 

I am Jewish. My reply is that if your religion and the High Holy Day services were that important to you, you should have stayed home and celebrated in your own synagogue with your own rabbi and with your own friends. Obviously services are not as important to you as you would have us believe. We chose not to cruise over the holidays because they are important to us. You do belong to as synagogue or are you a once-per-year Jew?

 

DON

Edited November 3, 2016 by donaldsc

[NAYRB]

We cruise every year after thanksgiving and before Christmas and more often than not Chanukah will fall during that time. I have always been thankful and impressed with the job that Celebrity does helping us celebrate the holiday. FYI did you know that you can order a challah to be served at your dinner table any night of your cruise, you just need to give them 1 day notice, and the challah is excellent. I appreciate the effort celebrity makes and always mention that in our post cruise survey.

[JFontaine]

You do belong to as synagogue or are you a once-per-year Jew?

 

DON

 

Very ugly and should be deleted.

 

Thank you to the original poster. Perhaps his report will prevent others, of any faith or interest, from being disappointed on future sailings.

[Fish Lover]

Seems to me the complaints as well as suggestions on what to do differently for Celebrity are:

 

1. Services were not held on the expected and traditional day. OP points out many organized and "informal" gatherings being held on embarkation day, so not allowing a religious service, which may be no more organized than other activities, seems to discriminate on religious grounds. Some may claim religious services are different than secular group gatherings, but on what basis? Just because they are "informal" or not carefully organized? Cruise lines will often put on embarkation day events that certainly involve more planning and execution than simply setting aside a room for a Rabbi and others to gather and do as they please.

 

2. Times for scheduled services not listed in the daily activity, even though many other special interest group meetings were listed. Is there a clear and equitable standard for what gets listed in the daily postings or not?

 

3. Insufficient time for the event. Half an hour seems insufficient for any type of religious service, especially when other secular activities and groups are routinely scheduled for an hour.

 

Personally, I do not expect a cruise line to provide me with a religious experience. If that is my goal, I schedule my vacation around what is important, or I seek that out in some other way. I do not expect a secular business to provide me religious activities, nor would I find them particularly capable in doing so.

 

I agree with your last paragraph. As to the first part, your list is a good synthesis of what the OP expects but I don't think Celebrity should be expected to provide it. From the responses, I don't think most others do as well.

[Orator]

OP:

Don't blame Celebrity, it ïwasn't in G_d's plan

[dd likes to cruise]

Maybe I think differently than most, but if I want to make sure that my religious holiday is celebrated the way I want it to be, I wouldn't leave it up to a cruise line, a hotel chain, an airline, etc., I would only leave it up to my church. If I go on a cruise during Christmas, I certainly wouldn't be upset if they didn't do the holiday exactly the way I would want it, because I would understand that it is a cruise line and not a church. I think cruise lines try very hard to accommodate all their customers, but they can't be everything to everyone.

 

Agree times a million! If it is so important, make your plans around it.

[MommaBear55]

I am a person of religious faith and there are certain times of year when I wouldn't think to vacation because the spirit of the religious holiday does not align with the atmosphere of a vacation, especially on a cruise ship where one cannot be guaranteed a religious service of any kind, let alone one that aligns with one's spiritual desires and needs for that holiday.

 

I couldn't agree more. I am sorry that the OP was disappointed, but doubt that each ship is equipped to meet each religious groups' individual needs.

[BDL]

I'm Jewish and I don't think I would ever assume any cruise line would provide me with an experience even close to what my synagogue would. I'm sorry the OP was disappointed but I honestly think their expectation was unreasonable.

[Bo1953]

Very ugly and should be deleted.

 

Thank you to the original poster. Perhaps his report will prevent others, of any faith or interest, from being disappointed on future sailings.

 

j - that was not ugly, as opposed to asking 'how religious are you' type of statement... which is fair, in this case.

 

I, and those who worship with me, fully know and understand that I only attend services during three (3) High Holy Day celebrations, unless there is a memorial service.

 

Just for a point of information that d stated, which applies not only to those who are Jewish but to other faiths as well.. We have the full spectrum as others and nothing wrong with asking or pointing it out...

 

bon voyage

[JRos]

I'm also Jewish but very secular; however, I don't travel over Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur or Passover because I do observe them. If these holidays were very significant to you, it may have been more sensible to have not travelled during these days. You can't really expect Celebrity to be responsible for providing you with a religious service and meal... That's not their responsibility.

[Beanb41]

This discussion crosses over from being a Jewish problem. I do not see an entertainment organisation's role as one of catering for religious needs and wants . It's role is to provide entertainment for its customers. If its customers have a specific request for some form of entertainment and I include religious services in this category then it is beholding on those passengers to bring their requirements to the notice of the entertainer. In some instances wishes can be adhered too and other instances they cannot. The passenger then has the option of taking up the entertainment or not. Similarly cruise lines ask about food allergies and requirements and again it is beholding on the passengers to take a degree of responsibility in assessing that such food and beverage requirements can be met. My experience after 6 cruises on Celebrity are that Jews and Catholics from a religious standpoint are catered for. To what extent and whether or nor the catering goes far enough I don't know because I am not involved but from my limited observation over certain holidays and feasts where are cruise is involved these two faiths in particular are catered for. Others maybe but again not being involved I haven't noticed. Regarding JROs comments #42 Celebrity where possible go out of their way to meet their customers needs and where possible will try and accommodate them. Sometimes they cant. On our recent 14 day cruise there were 65 different nationalities in the crew and one can only guess a large number of different food requirements and religious beliefs. There were probably almost as many different nationalities and religions amongst the passengers.

There is a solution and that is to ask about special needs and wants, find out if they can be met then decide if the planned cruise is then suitable.

[ReneeFLL]

Sabbath and E rev Yom Kippur services went well--The Rabbi announced that we would meet the next morning at 10AM for Yom Kippur service-which do to allotted time constraints would include Yizkor Services were over at 11:15--was my fast over?? I broke my fast at the Elite cocktail hour.

 

Icalled customer service from Boston --Would forward experience to proper personnel--called again from home --nothing All I asked for was a letter or telephone conversation with some one who could insure that my experience would not happen again.

 

How should I proceed--Should forget it The ship inflicted unnecessary pain --

 

maybe I should ask for a free cruise good only for Jewish High Holidays sailing

 

Thanks for any advice

 

Forget about it and move on.

[BayAreaBC]

I've always found the wiccan services disappointing too.

[gek]

I've always found the wiccan services disappointing too.

 

Yes, and on my last cruise the Satanist rituals were very, very tame. Not even any nudity!

[teecee60]

 

I broke my fast at the Elite cocktail hour.

 

How should I proceed-- The ship inflicted unnecessary pain --

 

maybe I should ask for a free cruise good only for Jewish High Holidays sailing

 

Thanks for any advice

 

It is blatantly obvious that you were intentionally and unjustly discriminated against. :eek:

 

Such malicious treatment from ANY callous and uncaring business SHOULD NOT, and CAN NOT be tolerated. :mad:

 

These disgustingly evil corporate entities MUST be made to PAY. :cool:

 

For putting at risk your immortal soul, they should provide you with at least THREE free cruises. ;)

 

 

I do not expect a cruise line to provide me with a religious experience. If that is my goal, I schedule my vacation around what is important.

 

I do not expect a secular business to provide me religious activities.

 

You really need to raise your expectations so you can get a (or THREE) free cruises. :p :rolleyes:

[caribill]

My wife and I are Jewish and booked a Summit Canada /New England cruise sailing on Oct.2 realizing that it would encompass the Jewish High Holidays--The brochure stated that (and confirmed by Captains club reps )a Jewish Rabbi would be on board--We thought that that meant that services would be conducted---WRONG--At 12:30 we were on the Summit and asked guest services about the time and place for the evening Rosh Hashanah services --The daily summit did not mention any service -I was told that services were scheduled for the next morning--and that the Rabbi was on board. I spoke with( I believe was the activity director )a person who told me that we never hold services on the day of embarkation( apparently in the past a ship sail was delayed because a rabbi was late) and could not accommodate my request. The head of guest services told me the same story.

 

I will side with the OP.

 

As others have pointed out, Jewish holidays start at sundown the night before the actual day. It is a natural expectation that if a Rabbi was on board that there would be an evening service even if it was embarkation day.

 

And as the following post shows, even the Rabbi was surprised that he could not conduct the service he was hired by Celebrity to conduct.

 

After lunch we went to our cabin to unpack--The telephone rang--The Rabbi was told that I was upset . He told me that he was hired to conduct the evening service but the ship would not accommodate him-He did not understand why-a service was scheduled for the next morning 8 am in the revelation lounge-

 

[caribill]

The Rabbi conducted the morning service using material prepared by some rabbis and given to him by the ship -He thought that it was excellent but too long considering that we had to be out of the lounge by 9am--they had to set up for some party that was coming in at 9:30He had to skip and shorten the service He kept on looking at his watch and apologizing--

 

I'm sorry that your service felt rushed- I find most activities do on the ship since they are trying to fit a lot of things in to accommodate all of their passengers. It is s shame that the rabbi didn't review the material in advance or prepare his own service to accommodate the time.

 

 

Again I will side with the OP.

 

Celebrity supplied the materials for the service. Someone at Celebrity familiar with the materials would have known how long it takes to go through the materials.

 

Basically, I think what happened is because Celebrity people, both on shore and on the ship, were really not familiar with what this Jewish holy day is about and the amount of time needed to properly conduct the service.

 

It's only a guess, but I bet that the Rabbi had no idea how time limited he would be until he showed up to conduct the morning service.

 

On other cruise lines when Friday night services are held, an hour is scheduled. No person familiar with Rosh Hashanah would have scheduled a service for less than an hour.

[denatravels]

To balance out the original thread, a few years ago we found ourselves on the Equinox on Passover. We asked if there would be any special meal served or anything planned and were told that there was a retired cantor on board (arranged by Celebrity) and there would be a special passover dinner at 6PM in the buffet area. Although a bit dubious, we dressed nicely and arrived a little before 6 (note: there was nothing in the daily events bulletin about this meal...you had to ask).

 

A section of the buffet area had been blocked off....individual tables were set, each with a seder plate and a haggadah. Set with china and wine glasses. There were 250 people at the dinner..all of whom found out about the meal just by asking at guest services. The entire dinner was served by waiters: Gefilte fish, matzoh ball soup, and as I recall a choice of entrees including brisket....and a passover dessert. Did I mention that they had manischewitz wine....and that there was no extra cost for the meal or the wine.

 

We were incredibly shocked and pleased with the extra effort Celebrity put into planning that meal...that experience. Clearly, someone had worked to get everything needed on board, arranged to cook the special meals, etc.

 

No, it wasn't an orthodox service...it was reform....very little hebrew...but you know what...it didn't matter to anyone there.

 

So, back to the OP.....Sorry your expectations weren't met....but if you expect a formal religious (Jewish or other) experience with all the services and rituals, a cruise ship is not the place....and I would think that would not be a surprise. Celebrity went beyond our expectations on our cruise and if they had a morning service on rosh hashanah, I'd consider that to be enough...but that's me.

 

 

That sounds really nice. I was on the summit last year during pesach-- that would have been great to attend. And I certainly wasn't expecting celebrity to do anything special for the holiday-- my only issue with this is that they may have, but it wasn't posted in the daily schedule-- that is disappointing to me.

I certainly agree with other posters who suggest that if the religious observance is very important, it's best done at home. But if celebrity was making the extra effort, it would have been nice to know!

 

 

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