Princess fined 40 million

[dockman]

I was curious why CCL stock has gone down past two days.

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-carnival-usa-pollution-idUSKBN13Q4YB

[bUU]

My paranoia has me concerned that this will lead to that which will lead to that... that this violation will lead NPS to lift licenses to cruise Glacier Bay from other CCL cruise lines. I know, there's no reason for this to lead to that to lead to that... but still...

[kazu]

Wow!

 

How disappointing. Frankly, this ship should NOT be allowed in these waters for at least the same length of time that they have been polluting IMO.

 

Really disgusted by these actions.

[joepeka]

There are two stories on Cruise Industry News about this - I've posted the links below. Interesting thing though in the second story, it's third from last paragraph, it mentions an outcome of the settlement with Princess is that all Carnival Corp brands (including HAL presumably) will come under a mandatory environmental compliance program.

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/16070-u-s-justice-department-fines-princess-cruises-40-million-for-pollution.html

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/16071-princess-cruises-responds-to-u-s-justice-department.html

[lais]

There goes more cutbacks

[sppunk]

This will end their Glacier Bay permits.

 

 

They won't be allowed to bid for government services contracts now. Exact same issue when Royal Caribbean lost them years ago.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you for the links.

Really sad to hear what Princess did. And now all Carnival Corporation ships will end up paying for their mess one way or another.

Right -- more cut backs.

[Krazy Kruizers]

This will end their Glacier Bay permits.

 

 

They won't be allowed to bid for government services contracts now. Exact same issue when Royal Caribbean lost them years ago.

 

 

 

I think you are right.

[bUU]

But will Princess affect Holland America?

[joepeka]

But will Princess affect Holland America?

 

I suppose it depends on the impact of the environmental compliance program on the Carnival Corp lines in terms of time and expense.

[thinfool]

deleted

Edited December 1, 2016 by thinfool

[RMLincoln]

I read the article first referred to by OP. There was a statement by Princess in that article that sure sounds fishy to me:

 

"We are extremely disappointed about the inexcusable actions of our employees who violated our policies and environmental law when they bypassed our bilge water treatment system and discharged untreated bilge water into the ocean," Princess Cruises said in a statement. "

Did these engineers on this one ship decide to do this on their own? They modified a plumbing system for no advantage to themselves, presuming that they didn't get paid more to do this. Really?

 

Somebody new about it, somebody told them to do. and then somebody made them lie about it (by what, threatening them with their jobs?) And these engineers did this for what benefit? If they were separating oil to be discharged instead of being carried to be properly disposed? I suppose carrying extra weight has some cost to it, and the disposal fee too.

 

A $40M fine spread over Princess Corp spreads pretty thin and I wouldn't think it would impact very much nor cause cut backs or fare increases to cover the fine.

 

Whether this will impact permits for all CCL ships in Glacier Bay or Antarctica or somewhere else, we will have to wait to see.

 

Just stupid, and arrogant. m--

[Krazy Kruizers]

We just had a small "Bleep" on our local TV station about Princess being fined -- no real details were given.

Pittsburgh area.

[jhannah]

I believe ramifications will go beyond the U.S. Government fine. This is fodder for local authorities to make it more difficult and costly for ships to call at their ports. (Like the "No Cruise Ships" spelled out on the hill above Flam, Norway.)

[chengkp75]

There are two stories on Cruise Industry News about this - I've posted the links below. Interesting thing though in the second story, it's third from last paragraph, it mentions an outcome of the settlement with Princess is that all Carnival Corp brands (including HAL presumably) will come under a mandatory environmental compliance program.

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/16070-u-s-justice-department-fines-princess-cruises-40-million-for-pollution.html

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/16071-princess-cruises-responds-to-u-s-justice-department.html

 

As someone who deals with oil water separators, Oil Record Books, and MARPOL on a daily basis, I've posted my views over on the Princess thread, here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51671413&postcount=65

 

It is pretty typical that all Carnival Corp brands will be under environmental compliance probation. I have worked for two companies that were under DOJ probation for environmental violations (all from the foreign flag fleet, not the US flag fleet where I work), and one company has become the "standard" that DOJ uses as a "game plan" for future compliance, and I discuss this in the above post.

[rkacruiser]

This is very disappointing and disturbing news. The CIN article indicates that practice has been going on since 2005. If so, there are far more than "one set of bad actors" involved.

 

I know on HAL ships there frequently are auditors from HAL as well as from Carnival Corporation assessing the areas for which they are responsible; are the proper procedures being followed, are the expected standards being met. I would assume the ships of Princess Cruises would receive the same scrutiny. It is difficult to understand how such a situation could take place for so many years and on more than one vessel.

 

Princess Cruises failure gives a black eye to all of those Environmental Officers and crew who work in a very undesirable area of the ship who take pride in trying to keep the ocean clean. And, that is a shame!

[sail7seas]

It has remained unclear to me in what way(s) HAL and Princess are now connected (more closely than with other CCC brands.)Having Sfein Kruse as senior executive. Depending how clos e the connections, it might be possib le, HAL could be given very close inspectionnow. The oceans must beprpotected and whatever penalty is declared, it has to send a loud message. IMO.

 

I'm off to read Chengkp's post on Princess forum. I have no doubt, it is well wor th going there to find it.

Edited December 1, 2016 by sail7seas

[joepeka]

As someone who deals with oil water separators, Oil Record Books, and MARPOL on a daily basis, I've posted my views over on the Princess thread, here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51671413&postcount=65

 

It is pretty typical that all Carnival Corp brands will be under environmental compliance probation. I have worked for two companies that were under DOJ probation for environmental violations (all from the foreign flag fleet, not the US flag fleet where I work), and one company has become the "standard" that DOJ uses as a "game plan" for future compliance, and I discuss this in the above post.

Thank you Chief, I was hoping you would weigh in on this story with your usual expert information.

[joepeka]

It has remained unclear to me in what way(s) HAL adn Princess are now connected (more closely than other CCC brands.)aving Sgfein Kruse as senior executive. Depending how clos e the connections, it might be possib le, HAL could be given very close inspectionnow. The oceans must be rpotected and whatever penalty is declared, it has to send a loud message. IMO.

 

I'm off to read Chengkp's post on Princess forum. I have no doubt, it is well wor th going there to find it.

 

Hi Sail, I didn't mean to imply there is any more connection between HAL and Princes than between Cunard and Princess or Carnival and Princess on this issue. As Chief noted above (and as the news story mentions), all the cruise lines under the Carnival Corporate banner will be under the environmental compliance probation. What that means in reality to HAL, Carnival, Costa, Cunard, etc. I cannot say except perhaps significant more scrutiny in terms of environmental compliance.

Edited December 1, 2016 by joepeka

[SilvertoGold]

Ooops!

Edited December 1, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[sail7seas]

This is very disappointing and disturbing news. The CIN article indicates that practice has been going on since 2005. If so, there are far more than "one set of bad actors" involved.

 

I know on HAL ships there frequently are auditors from HAL as well as from Carnival Corporation assessing the areas for which they are responsible; are the proper procedures being followed, are the expected standards being met. I would assume the ships of Princess Cruises would receive the same scrutiny. It is difficult to understand how such a situation could take place for so many years and on more than one vessel.

 

Princess Cruises failure gives a black eye to all of those Environmental Officers and crew who work in a very undesirable area of the ship who take pride in trying to keep the ocean clean. And, that is a shame!

 

I agree a bout being sorry how this can relfect upon others who work so hard to do their environmentaLjobs properly. How did dtthose to blame on Princess ever think they could 'get waway with this? I wonder if their careeers may be coming to an abrupt end.

Edited December 1, 2016 by sail7seas

[freestyling]

The link below will take you to Princess website with responses from management and various department heads. Very disappointing that this occurred numerous times with Princess.

http://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/cbresponse/

[VennDiagram]

As someone who deals with oil water separators, Oil Record Books, and MARPOL on a daily basis, I've posted my views over on the Princess thread, here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51671413&postcount=65

 

It is pretty typical that all Carnival Corp brands will be under environmental compliance probation. I have worked for two companies that were under DOJ probation for environmental violations (all from the foreign flag fleet, not the US flag fleet where I work), and one company has become the "standard" that DOJ uses as a "game plan" for future compliance, and I discuss this in the above post.

 

Thank you so much for all the reliable information you contribute! And thank you for the link to your comments on this.

 

Of course it was not a couple of rogue employees onboard a ship or two....

[chengkp75]

Hi Sail, I didn't mean to imply there is any more connection between HAL and Princes than between Cunard and Princess or Carnival and Princess on this issue. As Chief noted above (and as the news story mentions), all the cruise lines under the Carnival Corporate banner will be under the environmental compliance probation. What that means in reality to HAL, Carnival, Costa, Cunard, etc. I cannot say except perhaps significant more scrutiny in terms of environmental compliance.

 

As I've said, there will most likely be a department created within each line with a title like "Operational Integrity", that will act like a police department's Internal Affairs department, and which will be tasked with ensuring that the ships meet all the requirements of the settlement. This will include placing security seals on piping to prevent it being removed to install "magic pipes", and the security system surrounding these seals, more devices that record the operation of oily water separators and incinerators, and record slop tank levels, and transmit this data automatically to the OI office. Much more record keeping for the shipboard personnel. Also, the court will appoint an auditor who will make inspections of the ships to ensure they are all in compliance.

[joepeka]

As I've said, there will most likely be a department created within each line with a title like "Operational Integrity", that will act like a police department's Internal Affairs department, and which will be tasked with ensuring that the ships meet all the requirements of the settlement. This will include placing security seals on piping to prevent it being removed to install "magic pipes", and the security system surrounding these seals, more devices that record the operation of oily water separators and incinerators, and record slop tank levels, and transmit this data automatically to the OI office. Much more record keeping for the shipboard personnel. Also, the court will appoint an auditor who will make inspections of the ships to ensure they are all in compliance.

Thanks again Chief. So in short, more scrutiny and more time and expense for all the Carnival Corporation lines - all for an appropriate cause. ;)

Edited December 2, 2016 by joepeka