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Canadian mom on cruise jailed in Bahamas, mom of 15 years old called police after ...

mking8288

By mking8288,
in Norwegian Cruise Line

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dgparent

dgparent

Posted
Posted
Everyone agrees that it is wrong for the 15 year-old to claim to be older. In the Bahamas and most US states, the 15 year-old being "wrong" or a liar is irrelevant to the case. There are SOME states that allow the defendant to prove that he/she reasonably believed that the minor was of legal age.

 

 

I did read one news article that stated that the defendant denied having sex with the teen.

 

For sake of forum debate, we are all going by the assumption that they did have sex in the restroom.

 

 

 

True, but the prosecutor in the Bahamas doesn't need the teen in order to pursue the case.

 

 

 

It's unlikely that she would be successful against NCL. She might have a case against the teen's mother who reported it to NCL. The mother of the teen may have jumped to a conclusion which NCL acted upon.

 

 

If people were debating whether or not the law was just, you'd have a point. The law is what it is. If the law was 13, the same argument could be made about a 12 year-old who is almost 13. The law on the books is 16 in the Bahamas.

 

 

 

Jared Fogel also has kids (who suffer social stigma). It didn't help his case nor should it help the 23 year-old in this one. Again, in most states knowing or not knowing the minor is a minor is irrelevant.

 

 

Again, in the court of law in most states, it isn't relevant.

 

 

This isn't a question of "fault". In the above scenario, you would have (unknowingly) broken the law. It might work as a defense (as it might in the Bahamas case) but the process would have to play out. It wouldn't be as simple as "...you're free to go, you probably thought that she was old enough..."

 

 

 

See above. It might work but it isn't guaranteed even if the 15 year-old lied and used a fake ID to enter the bar. It sucks (no pun intended :p ) but that's the law.

 

 

Beating NCL in court is unlikely in a case like this.

Look at it from their point of view...

 

There is a contract that guests adhere to that states that "Norwegian Cruise Line guests are expected to be responsible for their actions at all times,...". If the mother or son violated the terms of the Guest Conduct Policy, NCL isn't responsible.

 

If a guest reports a crime against a minor, NCL is going to act and get the police involved. If NCL had ignored the mother, the mother might have a case against NCL.

 

 

a) we don't know that. Someone would have to prove that NCL OK'd him being there. They don't have guards at the casino entrance checking IDs

b) we don't know if he drank anything

c) we don't know that if he was drinking, who gave him the drink. If the 23 year-old went to the bar and got a drink and walked back and gave it to the 15 year-old, NCL can't be held accountable.

 

There are way too many unknowns but the biggest crime is the (alleged) "Age of Consent" violation.

 

Well I can tell you this you are most certainly wrong, on most of your points, I can tell buy your responses that you are a American, this has nothing to do with US law. I know hard to believe that your law class 12 years ago does not apply here, but it is true.

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jints07

jints07

Posted
Posted
The sad thing is that a 23 yr old and three kids lives are most likely ruined by a lying 15 yr old. Other than ID ing this kid, she would have no reason not to believe him, appearance and in an adult area.

I usually side against the perpetrators, but this time I'm against the victim.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Let's pretend the kid was 35 instead of 15. Sex in a public bathroom on foreign "soil" as a mother of three young children still represents horrific judgement. I won't pretend to know their life situation, but come on, children have been in protective custody for less than that.

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david_sobe

david_sobe

Posted
Posted (edited)
If a 15 year old girl lies and tricks a man into committing a crime, then she is in the wrong.

She may be morally wrong but the guy is charged with rape even if the girl says its consensual. Happens EVERY day. Most states do not give 15 year olds consent to have sex and if the other person is over 18 they are charged with sexual assault.

If she was arrested there was enough evidence to satisfy the charge. No matter if anyone changes their story it wont help. You should see the countless times a 15 year girl is on the stand denying anything happened or says it was consensual but the guy gets convicted. The police did interviews and he or she must have admitted to having sex or maybe there was a witness who reported the actions to security. Remember the mother of the 15 year old caught them. What else could be going on in a bathroom stall with these 2 together? I am not familiar with Bahamian law but because she was arrested she would be tested and inspected like any other rape case. Her defense is "I thought he was over 18." But that is not a legal defense. A 15 year old does not have legal authority to consent to sexual encounters.

Edited by david_sobe
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punkincc

punkincc

Posted
Posted
Children under 18 are asked to leave the casino.

 

Yes, if they obviously look like teens or children, they probably are asked to leave as soon as they are noticed. But no one checks the cards of people as they enter to verify age. A 15 year old who is 6 ft tall and has a full beard will simply blend into all the other adults there. Whether he was drinking or not is immaterial. He was someone who had every appearance of being an adult and was in an area ( casino and casino bar ) where everyone there would be assumed by others to be an adult. He then lied about this age and one thing led to another.

 

This woman may technically have had sex with a minor, but I don't see any evidence that it was ever her intent, and how she could have been expected to know he was a minor under these circumstances is beyond me. It's not like she was stalking teens around the pool deck.

 

And to those who say that we would feel differently if this had been a 15 yr old girl, I disagree. The same thing could easily happen under the same circumstances with a very adult appearing 15 year old girl whose mother allows her into an adult only area. I would not blame the guy. These kids even carry fake ID which shows them to be 21.

 

I would venture a guess that if parents were aware of the amount of sexual activity going on among teens on board the ship they would be shocked. And food for thought is that if your 18 year old son or daughter has a consensual encounter with a 15 year old it could be considered statutory rape. I'm sure the 15 year old in this story thought it was all fun and games. No one ever had a talk with him about the legal implications for the other person. I'm sure he never though he would be potentially ruining someone else's life.

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sjbdtz

sjbdtz

Posted
Posted
Remember the mother of the 15 year old caught them. What else could be going on in a bathroom stall with these 2 together?

 

They could have been snorting cocaine.

 

They could have been kissing.

 

They could have been taking silly selfies.

 

They could have decided to try on each other's clothing.

 

They could have wanted to smoke a cigarette and not be seen by the mother.

 

 

The mother saw them exiting the bathroom. For all SHE knew, they were washing their hands at the sink. Everything else, she jumped to conclusions about.

 

 

 

.

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david_sobe

david_sobe

Posted
Posted (edited)
They could have been snorting cocaine.

 

They could have been kissing.

 

They could have been taking silly selfies.

 

They could have decided to try on each other's clothing.

 

They could have wanted to smoke a cigarette and not be seen by the mother.

 

 

The mother saw them exiting the bathroom. For all SHE knew, they were washing their hands at the sink. Everything else, she jumped to conclusions about.

 

 

 

.

Foolish comments

The police would not have arrested her without evidence of a crime. According to the article the woman DID NOT deny sex happened but went to her defense she thought he was over 18 (which seems reasonable but is not a legal defense). Before police arrested her do you not believe they interviewed the mother, her son, the woman involved and any witnesses. You live in a fairy tale bubble to say they went into a bathroom together to try eachother's clothes on. Imagine if the roles were reversed and it was a 15 year old girl and an adult male. Try your lame excuses then. You are pretending the police did not do what they are trained to do and investigate and take action when evidence of a crime happened. NO WHERE in the article did either subject DENY they engaged in sex. You are putting your spin on things as you always like to do. You act like the police just arrested the woman because of what the mother saw? Foolish! The police did what they are trained to do and took action how they are trained. If anything the Bahamian police are not looking to round up tourists because of bad publicity. A 15 year old was a victim according to their law and they enforced their law. The police are not going to arrest someone ONLY on the mother's statement. The woman was arrested after there was probably cause to arrest her after their investigation.

Simple.

Edited by david_sobe
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Lido_Deck

Lido_Deck

Posted
Posted
Well I can tell you this you are most certainly wrong, on most of your points, I can tell buy your responses that you are a American, this has nothing to do with US law. I know hard to believe that your law class 12 years ago does not apply here, but it is true.

 

And I can tell you this, you are most certainly wrong.

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Lido_Deck

Lido_Deck

Posted
Posted
If charges are being brought against the 23 year old, then the 15 year old should have had a sexual assault exam to prove sexual contact.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Do what? Seriously? How do you do a rape kit on a male?

 

Never mind. I don't really want to know.

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pcur

pcur

Posted
Posted

My oldest son is close to 6'4" tall, and he was 5'11' when he was TWELVE!! I have walked in the shoes of this teenage boy's Mom.

 

We took our sons on their first cruise when the oldes was 14.5, and he had already started drinking illegally at parties at home. It was an uphill battle with him all during high school.

 

He hooked up with some older teens from Las Vegas on his first cruise, and it became apparent to us that they were buying him drinks. They were over 18, he looked over 18....hell, he looked over 21.

 

So, we confronted him and kept him with us the rest of the cruise. A miserable time was had by all (except younger son; he had a great time!!).

 

That 15 year-old was not new to sexual activity: I can be sure of it. He knew what he was doing. So, let's put the accountability on both sides, BUT legal is legal. If that 23 year-old woman thought to ask him how old her was, then she KNEW she was on shaky grounds. She had a good idea he was a teenager, most likely from the way he talked and acted.

 

She deserved to be arrested, and I only hope they make her pay a fine (maybe from her sales bonus!!), and let her go home.

 

The boy? His Mom needs a shorter leash. Been there, done it, wasn't fun.

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Two Wheels Only

Two Wheels Only

Posted
Posted
Well I can tell you this you are most certainly wrong, on most of your points, I can tell buy your responses that you are a American, this has nothing to do with US law. I know hard to believe that your law class 12 years ago does not apply here, but it is true.

 

Actually, Bahamian Law is a bit tougher than US law (use NY as an example). In NY, the woman in this case would face up to 4 years in prison (Class E felony based on the ages of the 2 people). In the Bahamas, she is facing at least 7 years "subject to, on a first conviction for the offense, a minimum term of imprisonment of seven years".

 

However, the Bahamas has a terrible reputation for actually enforcing their rape laws (a different subject for another day).

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Lido_Deck

Lido_Deck

Posted
Posted
Foolish comments

The police would not have arrested her without evidence of a crime. According to the article the woman DID NOT deny sex happened but went to her defense she thought he was over 18 (which seems reasonable but is not a legal defense). Before police arrested her do you not believe they interviewed the mother, her son, the woman involved and any witnesses. You live in a fairy tale bubble to say they went into a bathroom together to try eachother's clothes on. Imagine if the roles were reversed and it was a 15 year old girl and an adult male. Try your lame excuses then. You are pretending the police did not do what they are trained to do and investigate and take action when evidence of a crime happened. NO WHERE in the article did either subject DENY they engaged in sex. You are putting your spin on things as you always like to do. You act like the police just arrested the woman because of what the mother saw? Foolish! The police did what they are trained to do and took action how they are trained. If anything the Bahamian police are not looking to round up tourists because of bad publicity. A 15 year old was a victim according to their law and they enforced their law. The police are not going to arrest someone ONLY on the mother's statement. The woman was arrested after there was probably cause to arrest her after their investigation.

Simple.

 

I Googled as many articles as I could find on this incident and I could not find in any of them where she admitted she had sex with him. The only statement you will find is she said he told her he was 18.

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Lido_Deck

Lido_Deck

Posted
Posted
My oldest son is close to 6'4" tall, and he was 5'11' when he was TWELVE!! I have walked in the shoes of this teenage boy's Mom.

 

We took our sons on their first cruise when the oldes was 14.5, and he had already started drinking illegally at parties at home. It was an uphill battle with him all during high school.

 

He hooked up with some older teens from Las Vegas on his first cruise, and it became apparent to us that they were buying him drinks. They were over 18, he looked over 18....hell, he looked over 21.

 

So, we confronted him and kept him with us the rest of the cruise. A miserable time was had by all (except younger son; he had a great time!!).

 

That 15 year-old was not new to sexual activity: I can be sure of it. He knew what he was doing. So, let's put the accountability on both sides, BUT legal is legal. If that 23 year-old woman thought to ask him how old her was, then she KNEW she was on shaky grounds. She had a good idea he was a teenager, most likely from the way he talked and acted.

 

She deserved to be arrested, and I only hope they make her pay a fine (maybe from her sales bonus!!), and let her go home.

 

The boy? His Mom needs a shorter leash. Been there, done it, wasn't fun.

 

I disagree...Punish all or punish none. Everyone was at fault here including the teen and his mother.

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$hip$hape

$hip$hape

Posted
Posted (edited)
I did and that activity on his part should have been a big red flag to her that he was under 18.

HICKEYS ... Thanks for the memories!

 

Hickeys may seem innocent enough, but sometimes the side effects of hickeys are pretty bad.

In fact, as in this case, they are the most common sex injury out there.:p

Edited by $hip$hape
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$hip$hape

$hip$hape

Posted
Posted
Wow, I would have been much more into cruising at 15 if I knew it could be so much fun.

 

So here's to cruising, whatever "cruising" means to you.

 

Twain said "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

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