Princess Cruises and shower water rationing

[riclop]

I am not normally one to complain. I really enjoy Princess and have been going on the Diamond Princess for the past 5 years now when it has been around Japan mainly for my love of Japan and cruising.

 

The recent cruises I have had on Diamond Princess have been awesome but there is one tiny problem. It is the showers in all of the cabins I have stayed in for the past 3 cruises have all had shower heads that dribble water and do not spray at all.

 

Here is a video I have uploaded to Instragram -

 

All I did was ask my steward if it could be fixed and all they did was gradually make the dribble a little bigger.

 

No reasonable person can shower under this dribble, it is a sad and sorry dribble and probably indicates finances are so bad that they need to ration water.

 

I am going back to the Diamond Princess in October in yet another cabin. I want to make it 100% clear that I love using Princess, love their style and cannot fault their cruise line, staff and style at all. It suits me perfectly. However this shower business and poor maintenance of or lack of water flow cannot go on.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions of who to send this video to in order that they can get the entire ships showers fixed and flowing properly. I am putting this here in the hope that Princess Cruises sees it and can fix it. I am not seeking any compensation, discounts, cruise credits or anything. They are my favourite cruise line and I am already booked to go back in October and have 4 additional deposits with them for future cruises.

 

I am just hoping for a reasonable way I can approach Princess, also make this more public to see if others have the same problem in the hope that Princess can fix the showers on Diamond Princess.

Try a newer ship.

[chengkp75]

chengkp75, how do the water lines on a ship typically run? One per deck or are there different lines for each sector of the ship - I've noticed that on Princess the cabin numbering changes between smoke doors (ie C4xx changes to C5xx) so assume that delineates the ship sectors.

 

The "sectors" are fire zones. In each fire zone, the electrical power is supplied separately to each zone, and the HVAC is supplied separately to each zone, to allow securing these functions in case of fire and to limit spread. However, the piping is not that way. The water comes up from the engine room in large "riser" pipes, and on each deck these risers feed a "ring main" or pipe that runs completely around the deck, up one side, across to the other, and back down the other side. Then a return pipe takes the water back to the engine room and back to the storage tanks. Each cabin, pantry, galley, or laundry takes a branch off this ring main to supply the services to that space. The entire ship, every deck and every space, is on the same water system.

 

The chilled water used to cool the AC air is piped similarly, as is the fire main and sprinkler piping. These last two will have isolation valves at each fire zone boundary so that if a fire gets hot enough to melt out the steel piping in a fire zone, you can isolate that section to maintain pressure on the firefighting systems.

[Thorpe]

I was on the ship in March in a mini on Emerald deck and had no problem. My sister was in cabin next door with no problems and another friend was on opposite side of ship in obstructed view still on Emerald deck and all was fine. So as others have stated just looks like it is isolated to a few on L and C decks. Which the OP was unlucky enough to encounter on his trips. Hopefully now that Princess is aware it will be looked at.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[OzKiwiJJ]

The "sectors" are fire zones. In each fire zone, the electrical power is supplied separately to each zone, and the HVAC is supplied separately to each zone, to allow securing these functions in case of fire and to limit spread. However, the piping is not that way. The water comes up from the engine room in large "riser" pipes, and on each deck these risers feed a "ring main" or pipe that runs completely around the deck, up one side, across to the other, and back down the other side. Then a return pipe takes the water back to the engine room and back to the storage tanks. Each cabin, pantry, galley, or laundry takes a branch off this ring main to supply the services to that space. The entire ship, every deck and every space, is on the same water system.

 

The chilled water used to cool the AC air is piped similarly, as is the fire main and sprinkler piping. These last two will have isolation valves at each fire zone boundary so that if a fire gets hot enough to melt out the steel piping in a fire zone, you can isolate that section to maintain pressure on the firefighting systems.

 

Thanks, chengkp75.

 

I guess if the ring main had a partial blockage near the end of the loop that could cause a loss of pressure to those cabins past that point.

[GUT2407]

No, it definitely was NOT normal. The Diamond cruise was our 6th Princess cruise and we never had shower flow problems like on Diamond on any of the other ships.

It’s about 2 years since we were on Diamond, water pressure was fine, but even the “cold” water was hot. I do understand why, before I get a long explanation, but it was a pain around Darwin and Bali.

[Brisbane41]

I was on the ship in March in a mini on Emerald deck and had no problem. My sister was in cabin next door with no problems and another friend was on opposite side of ship in obstructed view still on Emerald deck and all was fine. So as others have stated just looks like it is isolated to a few on L and C decks. Which the OP was unlucky enough to encounter on his trips. Hopefully now that Princess is aware it will be looked at.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I hope they do look at it. To me the odds are incredible that I would get two different cabins in two different areas of the ship and encounter the same problem.

 

Being in L248 in October 2017 and again in July 2018 that is 9 months apart, means that the ship has had 9 months of passengers possibly encounter that issue if the cabin was used.

 

My preferred method of shower is spray and that is what the video was recorded on.

[chengkp75]

Thanks, chengkp75.

 

I guess if the ring main had a partial blockage near the end of the loop that could cause a loss of pressure to those cabins past that point.

 

No, because it is a complete ring, so if there was a blockage say 1/4 of the way back from the bow on the port side, the cabins would be supplied from the ring going around the back of the ship and up the starboard side, across the forward end of the ship, and back down the port side to the blockage. You would need two blockages to reduce pressure to any area.

[Brisbane41]

No, because it is a complete ring, so if there was a blockage say 1/4 of the way back from the bow on the port side, the cabins would be supplied from the ring going around the back of the ship and up the starboard side, across the forward end of the ship, and back down the port side to the blockage. You would need two blockages to reduce pressure to any area.

 

 

Well here is the problem and it is baffling to wonder why other passengers are not complaining about the reduced water pressure.

 

Cabin L248 definitely had reduced water pressure in the shower in October 2017. I was in the cabin again in July 2018 and it had the exact same problem. That means the problem spanned for entirely 9 months.

 

I was on the ship in January 2018 in cabin C535. That cabin had the exact same problem. That cabin is in an entirely different area as L248.

 

By October 2018 in just over two months I will be in yet another cabin on Diamond Princess and will know for sure if the water is still weak. Again this is the video recorded in cabin L248 on the 11th July -

 

There is definitely a problem with the pressure in that shower nozzle.

 

When the lever is on spray the water just dribbles out and no matter what angle you put the shower head the water is so weak that it gravitates towards the hose and just dribbles down the nozzle and the hose and finds its way to the floor.

 

If you put the lever on jet then the water is concentrated in a very narrow stream and this stream will reach your body but the pressure is weak and it is not concentrated like spray.

 

What does not make sense to me is that there are two entirely different areas on the ship that I have been on in the past 9 months where this problem exists. I know the problem has existed for at least 9 months and in that 9 months I have seen no other complaints on here about the showers on forum. In reviews it is different but I do not have the time to search all. This review mentioned plumbing leaks - https://www.cruisecritic.com.au/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=578432 however no mention of the showers.

 

It would be really good to hear from other people on Diamond Princess from dates October 2017 onward to present and what cabin they used and what the water pressure was like specifically when the shower head was on spray.

 

Personally I am really suspecting that they are for some reason on that ship reducing water pressure to the cabins. I know the steward opened the head of the shower and removed the water saving mesh from two areas in the nozzle. It increased the pressure slightly but not enough.

[chengkp75]

Even though you were in the same cabin 9 months apart does not prove that the problem existed for the entire 9 months. The water strainers could have been cleaned a day after you got off from the cabin the first time, and the next passenger had no complaints. Then the scale started to build up again, and perhaps was cleared 5 or 6 times before you returned to the cabin. As for a cabin in a different area experiencing the same problem, scale doesn't recognize fire zones, cabin classes, or loyalty levels, and will circulate through the system, settling into the relatively static pipe legs going to the shower (the water only moves when you are showering, unlike the mains where it moves constantly) and clogging the strainers. Does this show that maintenance needs to up their game in routinely checking and clearing every cabin's strainers? Sure it does.

 

Does the fact that you've uncovered reports of plumbing leaks mean the likelihood of scale drying out and breaking off the pipes and circulating around the system as I've described, is greater than if there were no leaks requiring the system to be shut down and drained? You bet.

 

I see that Diamond is cruising out of Japan, so it does not fall under the USPH or EU ShipSan protocols, not sure what protocols are in place for most of Asia for ship sanitation, but does this mean that the shower heads are no longer being taken down and sanitized twice a year, meaning that scale buildup in the shower head could be plugging the nozzles? Sure it does.

 

And this does not even address the issues with clogging of the backflow preventers on the showers, which 98% of cabin stewards don't even know they exist. And these are only on the showers and toilets, so if the problem is limited to these two areas, but not the sink, that points towards them even stronger.

 

Would these problems be shipwide? Sure they would.

 

Do you have complaints with the water pressure in the cabin sink? Does the toilet fill with about a liter of water after each flush? Does the water dribble from drink dispensers? Because all of these devices use water from the same piping system as your shower. The toilets are extremely sensitive to water pressure, and will not fill sufficiently when pressure is low, since the valve only operates on time, not flow or volume.

 

I realize that I am unable to convince you that they didn't spend millions of dollars running separate water pipes to the cabins or the showers, just so they could reduce the pressure and save a few tens of thousands of dollars on water saving. So, I will leave you to your theory, and wish you well in proving it.

[Brisbane41]

Even though you were in the same cabin 9 months apart does not prove that the problem existed for the entire 9 months. The water strainers could have been cleaned a day after you got off from the cabin the first time, and the next passenger had no complaints. Then the scale started to build up again, and perhaps was cleared 5 or 6 times before you returned to the cabin. As for a cabin in a different area experiencing the same problem, scale doesn't recognize fire zones, cabin classes, or loyalty levels, and will circulate through the system, settling into the relatively static pipe legs going to the shower (the water only moves when you are showering, unlike the mains where it moves constantly) and clogging the strainers. Does this show that maintenance needs to up their game in routinely checking and clearing every cabin's strainers? Sure it does.

 

Does the fact that you've uncovered reports of plumbing leaks mean the likelihood of scale drying out and breaking off the pipes and circulating around the system as I've described, is greater than if there were no leaks requiring the system to be shut down and drained? You bet.

 

I see that Diamond is cruising out of Japan, so it does not fall under the USPH or EU ShipSan protocols, not sure what protocols are in place for most of Asia for ship sanitation, but does this mean that the shower heads are no longer being taken down and sanitized twice a year, meaning that scale buildup in the shower head could be plugging the nozzles? Sure it does.

 

And this does not even address the issues with clogging of the backflow preventers on the showers, which 98% of cabin stewards don't even know they exist. And these are only on the showers and toilets, so if the problem is limited to these two areas, but not the sink, that points towards them even stronger.

 

Would these problems be shipwide? Sure they would.

 

Do you have complaints with the water pressure in the cabin sink? Does the toilet fill with about a liter of water after each flush? Does the water dribble from drink dispensers? Because all of these devices use water from the same piping system as your shower. The toilets are extremely sensitive to water pressure, and will not fill sufficiently when pressure is low, since the valve only operates on time, not flow or volume.

 

I realize that I am unable to convince you that they didn't spend millions of dollars running separate water pipes to the cabins or the showers, just so they could reduce the pressure and save a few tens of thousands of dollars on water saving. So, I will leave you to your theory, and wish you well in proving it.

 

Your information is good, it is not that I do not believe you but having the same cabin after 9 months and a different one in between and as I mentioned previously family members in other cabins the same issue was with all cabins.

 

From recollection I never had any problem with the sink water pressure. The sink was fine for washing hands and brushing teeth. I noticed if I pulled the lever up tighter to the cold section then more pressure would come out. I would sometimes have to move the lever to adjust the temperature as we all know the water temperature changes from time to time.

 

As for the toilet it was fine. I sometimes opened the lid and kept thinking there was a lot more water in the bowl than what there should be but it flushed normally and filled up to a certain level and then that level would increase by next time I opened the lid.

 

I am under 40 years old and my eyes are good but I do not have microscopic vision so it was hard for me to examine the shower head. It did look like not all the holes allowed water out of them. The nozzle was changed but it did not help. If the shower head was removed and the hose just let water out it would come it in a soft jet stream but nowhere near as strong as a garden hose or as strong as the pipes in a residential home. The water pressure from the shower hose without the nozzle attached would not be strong enough to poke an eye out if it got up there but I thought it would be strong enough to create a decent spray if the shower nozzle was in good order.

 

I know the steward took out a water saving ring from the pipe and I had a good look in them when he had them off and could not see any more water saving devices and by putting on what appeared to be a new and unscratched shower head did not solve the issue it really made me curious as to the cause.

 

The information is helpful and I am hoping to put a good letter in writing to Princess just asking them to get their maintenance up to scratch. I am not chasing refunds, upgrades or any form of compensation here, I just love cruising out of Japan and want to keep doing it every year. Diamond Princess is a decent sized ship and I really enjoy the comfortable size of it and the activities I can do on the ship on sea days. For the sake of up to 10 minutes of showering morning and night in a 24 hours period it often escapes mention but in all honesty the showers is something they really do need to fix asap.

[donaldsc]

I'm sorry but I do not understand why so many passengers are willing to accept sub standard service. It is clear the shower head needs to be changed. It is a very simple and easy change, if the cabin steward could not fix within the first few hours I would be at Guest Services and get it resolved. I guarantee if you went to Guest Services and told them you were removing all daily service fees until the problem is fix it would be corrected within a hour.

 

But what happens is most guest go to Guest Service with a problem, Guest Services acts like they care and just push the problem along.... because the guest will be off the ship in a few days. I like Princess Cruises, it is my first choice for lines to cruise but I will never allow them to provide less than is required.

 

Why would you stiff everyone that depends upon the service fee including waiters, stewards, below deck staff just because the shower does not work. It isn't their fault. Seems like you are looking for an excuse not to pay the fee.

 

DON

[Expat Cruise]

Why would you stiff everyone that depends upon the service fee including waiters, stewards, below deck staff just because the shower does not work. It isn't their fault. Seems like you are looking for an excuse not to pay the fee.

 

DON

 

No one needs to look for reason not to pay the daily service fee they are 100% optional. Also did you miss the part that says until the problem is fixed? But to answer your question directly you attack the targets you can.

 

Did the United States not drop two nuclear bombs at the end of World War II, on cities in Japan? Those normal everyday people living in the cities, they had no control over the actions of the Government, but they still paid the price. I view the cruise lines as a whole, if one part of the system or company damages me or my party then the whole system or company is responsible to correct the issues.

[chengkp75]

 

I know the steward took out a water saving ring from the pipe and I had a good look in them when he had them off and could not see any more water saving devices and by putting on what appeared to be a new and unscratched shower head did not solve the issue it really made me curious as to the cause.

 

 

The backflow preventer that is used in shower sets requires tools to remove, and doesn't look like what it is.

 

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjIm46PxMHcAhULjcgKHaH0DuEYABANGgJxdQ&sig=AOD64_0fei9PVJitrpbYKs7p3WyWgCc72Q&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjdxYqPxMHcAhVkp1kKHXecBHoQwzwICQ&adurl=

 

These are typically threaded into the pipe leading to the shower head just above the mixing valve, or where the hose for a movable shower head connects to the mixing valve. The one linked is for a shower hose.

[chengkp75]

No one needs to look for reason not to pay the daily service fee they are 100% optional. Also did you miss the part that says until the problem is fixed? But to answer your question directly you attack the targets you can.

 

Did the United States not drop two nuclear bombs at the end of World War II, on cities in Japan? Those normal everyday people living in the cities, they had no control over the actions of the Government, but they still paid the price. I view the cruise lines as a whole, if one part of the system or company damages me or my party then the whole system or company is responsible to correct the issues.

 

Wow, tipping threads brought to a whole new level, comparing tips to nuclear weapons.

[Brisbane41]

Just an update and not the result I wanted.

 

Customer Relations emailed me and stated that according to the ship maintenance changed the shower head half way through the cruise and fixed the problem.

 

I am going to have to follow this one up because if that is the case then it is totally not correct at all and the problem will never be fixed.

 

I am going to have to write back to customer relations and put a disclaimer at the top and my signature to it that I am not seeking financial compensation or any form of perk, privilege, upgrade, credit, gift or anything at all. I just want the problem fixed so I can keep enjoying my cruises on that ship as I love cruising out of Japan.

 

I think this issue is going to take some time to get in touch with the right people and I hope they fix it because I am back on the ship in October in a different cabin to the 5 I already know have the problem.

[Expat Cruise]

While I wish you well and for you I would like to see your issue taken care of, if you put this disclaimer on your reply:

 

"I am going to have to write back to customer relations and put a disclaimer at the top and my signature to it that I am not seeking financial compensation or any form of perk, privilege, upgrade, credit, gift or anything at all. I just want the problem fixed so I can keep enjoying my cruises on that ship as I love cruising out of Japan."

 

 

I believe nothing will happen, the only thing cruise lines understand is profit and things that effect profit, Bad PR, Lawsuits, etc. And since the Japan ships sail full, they really do not care if you are a guest or not. Now if you post videos or have 100,000 plus social media followers then they will respond. But just a guest..... sorry you are to easy to replace.

 

If you disputed the cruise charges then they would see it as a issue they need to fix. But in my opinion if you send the disclaimer, you have lost any chance of fixing this.

 

That siad nothing would make me happier here than to be wrong, but I truly do not believe I am.

[suzyed]

It seems that most pax do not understand the financial aspects of making fresh water on a cruise ship.

 

First, you need to understand that people living and traveling on a cruise ship use a lot of fresh water; about one cubic meter, or one ton, of water per person, per day.

 

Fresh potable water is not cheap to make or buy. If the ship produces it from sea water, it costs around US$60 per ton to produce. If they are able to purchase it in port, the cost drops to around US$40 per ton. If the ship carries 3,000 pax and 1,500 crew, the cruise line is going to spend between $180,000 and $270,000 per day for fresh water.

 

Cruise lines are in the habit of cutting costs as much as they can.

Most mass market lines have installed water saving reducers on their shower lines, and have reduced onboard water pressure. Both these ideas save a substantial amount of water - and money.

 

They have also made water consumption a major element in computing the annual bonuses for Captains and Chief Engineers. The more water that is saved results in higher annual earnings for the Captain and Chief.

 

Most of the time, the poor water pressure is not a major problem for cruisers. But if you happen to get a cabin at the end of the water main, or your shower head has a problem, you are out of luck. The video posted by the OP looks like a shower at the end of the water line. There is not sufficient pressure there to push out enough water. It's not going to get better. The Princess Chief Engineer is not going to sacrifice his annual bonus to improve your experience.

 

How do you know all this? Just curious.

[Expat Cruise]

How do you know all this? Just curious.

 

If you read the whole thread you will find the information quoted has been shown to be wrong. With statements from cruise lines about water usage and costs.

[Brisbane41]

While I wish you well and for you I would like to see your issue taken care of, if you put this disclaimer on your reply:

 

"I am going to have to write back to customer relations and put a disclaimer at the top and my signature to it that I am not seeking financial compensation or any form of perk, privilege, upgrade, credit, gift or anything at all. I just want the problem fixed so I can keep enjoying my cruises on that ship as I love cruising out of Japan."

 

 

I believe nothing will happen, the only thing cruise lines understand is profit and things that effect profit, Bad PR, Lawsuits, etc. And since the Japan ships sail full, they really do not care if you are a guest or not. Now if you post videos or have 100,000 plus social media followers then they will respond. But just a guest..... sorry you are to easy to replace.

 

If you disputed the cruise charges then they would see it as a issue they need to fix. But in my opinion if you send the disclaimer, you have lost any chance of fixing this.

 

That siad nothing would make me happier here than to be wrong, but I truly do not believe I am.

 

Then it might mean finding cruise bloggers and websites to send the video to in the hope that they can publish it to their many thousands of followers.

 

I think ultimately it will cost them because if things deteriorate further they will have to start paying compensation to each and every passenger.

 

As an example I have been on the Diamond Princess three times since last October and every cruise I have been on the in cabin television system always breaks down on every cruise. Every cruise the ship has paid every passenger $50 on board disruption credit for a service they could not deliver. That is what poor maintenance does. Imagine the cost that is having on the company from a cruise in October 2017 to January 2018 and July 2018 and assuming they paid over 2,600 passengers that cash for every cruise. They even paid it to children. Ignoring maintenance will cost them.

[NSWP]

I bet the Captain's and Senior Officer's showers have good pressure, even on the Diamond !!!:cool:

[OzKiwiJJ]

 

As an example I have been on the Diamond Princess three times since last October and every cruise I have been on the in cabin television system always breaks down on every cruise. Every cruise the ship has paid every passenger $50 on board disruption credit for a service they could not deliver. That is what poor maintenance does. Imagine the cost that is having on the company from a cruise in October 2017 to January 2018 and July 2018 and assuming they paid over 2,600 passengers that cash for every cruise. They even paid it to children. Ignoring maintenance will cost them.

 

And I'll back that up as it also happened on our Diamond cruise. However unlike many passengers on that cruise we were very happy cruisers with an extra $100 on our shipboard account. We never watch TV anyway so it didn't bother us in the slightest. :D:D:D

[Brisbane41]

And I'll back that up as it also happened on our Diamond cruise. However unlike many passengers on that cruise we were very happy cruisers with an extra $100 on our shipboard account. We never watch TV anyway so it didn't bother us in the slightest. :D:D:D

 

Yes it was $100 on the 11th January sailing out of Sydney and again last October in Japan. They have reduced it to $50 now. In total I have personally got $250 on board credit out of Princess for a television network that did not work which I did not know didn't work because I could not be bothered watching it.

[Thorpe]

I must have been on a cruise when the TV was working , not that I can remember viewing much if at all, but none of us got any OBC so missed out there . It was March this year, just a short 8 night cruise to Tassie. Maybe no one noticed and therefore no one complained.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[OzKiwiJJ]

Yes it was $100 on the 11th January sailing out of Sydney and again last October in Japan. They have reduced it to $50 now. In total I have personally got $250 on board credit out of Princess for a television network that did not work which I did not know didn't work because I could not be bothered watching it.

 

Nice one! :D

[OzKiwiJJ]

I must have been on a cruise when the TV was working , not that I can remember viewing much if at all, but none of us got any OBC so missed out there . It was March this year, just a short 8 night cruise to Tassie. Maybe no one noticed and therefore no one complained.

 

Our cruise was the repositioning cruise that departed Sydney 22nd March. The TV problem was there from day 1. They kept making annoying (to us TV non-watchers) announcements about it. But the OBC compensated us for the annoying announcements. ;p

 

Sounds like poor old Diamond needs a complete overhaul. Water pressure problems, air conditioning problems, TV problems. What next?

 

But despite all the issues I really liked the ship, and we had the best crew overall that we've ever had on Princess.