Medical evacuation/delayed boarding

[florisdekort]

I have experienced multiple medivacs by helicopter during 50+ cruises on Celebrity and in all those cases the helicopter landed on the ship’s helipad. There was never a need to evacuate cabins. Don’t Princess ships have helipads? If so, why not? With thousands of mostly elderly people on board, it seems a basic necessity to me?

[TheRabbit]

USCG has no responsibility for violations of cruise line policy nor do they care. Their mission is the evacuation of the sick/injured party off the vessel. ;)

However, USCG can only keep a helicopter up for so long as the fuels is getting sucked up. Maybe send the extra fuel bill to those on the naughty list.

[geocruiser]

USCG has no responsibility for violations of cruise line policy nor do they care. Their mission is the evacuation of the sick/injured party off the vessel. ;)

 

I think the Coast Guard does care about violations in their line of duty. It also can put their lives at risk. I don't know what the out come of this will be. But to me it is like not getting out of the way of a police car or fire truck, so they can do their work.

[Colo Cruiser]

I have experienced multiple medivacs by helicopter during 50+ cruises on Celebrity and in all those cases the helicopter landed on the ship’s helipad. There was never a need to evacuate cabins. Don’t Princess ships have helipads? If so, why not? With thousands of mostly elderly people on board, it seems a basic necessity to me?

Princess ships DO NOT have helipads therefore helicopters do not land on them. No need for one. The task can be completed without one. This has worked for many years on Princess and most other cruise lines who don't have one either.

[Colo Cruiser]

However, USCG can only keep a helicopter up for so long as the fuels is getting sucked up. Maybe send the extra fuel bill to those on the naughty list.

 

 

True Dat.

[Colo Cruiser]

I think the Coast Guard does care about violations in their line of duty. It also can put their lives at risk. I don't know what the out come of this will be. But to me it is like not getting out of the way of a police car or fire truck, so they can do their work.

 

 

These issues probably happen during most medi-vacs.

I have seen it too on some that we have witnessed.

Its up to Princess to take action. As with many other types of policy violations on Princess we rarely see or hear about enforcement. I see where you are coming from but other than a talking to I doubt anything will be done unless something extreme happens.

[caribill]

We had to leave our cabin during a helo evacuation as well.

 

It's probably due to the folks mentioned in this thread -- who can't be trusted to stay off their balconies.

 

 

No. It is a precaution to prevent injury to passengers in their cabins in case the helicopter crashes into the ship.

[RatherBeTraveling]

I don’t typically follow the threads where there’s medical evacs but this one took a different turn. Very informative. Thank you for those who provided insight into some of the logistics.

Edited September 4, 2018 by RatherBeTraveling

[Pam in CA]

 

 

Princess ships DO NOT have helipads therefore helicopters do not land on them. No need for one. The task can be completed without one. This has worked for many years on Princess and most other cruise lines who don't have one either.

I believe it’s much trickier and not as safe to land on the ship than to hover. A helicopter pad isn’t needed. Princess is able to clear a space on the top deck for an evacuation.

 

If you’ve ever watched the Discovery Channel’s reality shows about rescues at sea, they’re always done by hovering and lowering a basket with a rescue swimmer.

[Blondilu]

Just curious, who was the Captain on the ship?

 

The Captain was Diego Perra.

 

I was in an ocean view cabin and could not hear the original announcements clearly. We were asleep and the first announcements were made throughout the ship but not in the cabins. So, not sure if those in the balcony cabins heard anything clearly or not. Or whether or not those involved were told directly by there room stewards to get inside or had to rely on just the announcements. Plus the helicopter was very loud.

 

But, the Captain made at least 2 announcements directly into all cabins about getting inside and closing the doors. And I heard 2 separate people from deck 12 talk about their room stewards coming to their doors to tell them to leave, so am assuming others got the same kind of visits from their room stewards. A personal visit rather than relying on overhead announcements seems the more likely scenario. Especially in light of at least one person at the presentation Q&A stating they did not hear all the announcements. Whether that's the case or not, from the Captain's wording and his tone it was very clear he felt his orders were being ignored rather than not having been heard. He was very straightforward and quite stern.

 

During the presentation he must have mentioned "Safety first" at least 3 or 4 times. He pointed out that they prepare for these kinds of things with an attitude of "what if". In this case, "what if" the helicopter crashes. For this reason there were 2 fire teams dispatched before the helicopter got anywhere near the ship. He showed several photos of fires caused by jet fuel, apologized for doing so since they were kind of scary, but pointed out that they take this kind of thing very seriously. He then went on to explain how the Coast Guard teams send down a man with the line that is eventually attached to the litter. Once attached they send the patient up in the litter and then retrieve the man on board.

 

He also showed, as stated by Pam, the photos of those who would not go inside.

 

His presentation was very enlightening and I was amazed at what actually goes into such a procedure. It is very dangerous and they would not have done it if they felt the patient could wait. He wouldn't really say what happened, confidentially issues I suppose, but he did remind us all to turn on the lights when we get out of bed at night. He finished his presentation by stating that the USCG had called him about 10:30 a.m. and told him the patient was at the hospital.

 

I was very impressed with Captain Perra. And all those involved.

[pablo222]

I believe it’s much trickier and not as safe to land on the ship than to hover. A helicopter pad isn’t needed. Princess is able to clear a space on the top deck for an evacuation.

 

If you’ve ever watched the Discovery Channel’s reality shows about rescues at sea, they’re always done by hovering and lowering a basket with a rescue swimmer.

 

Some of the giant royal caribbean ships have helipads.

 

On a cruise I was on, the coasties used it to evacuate a crew member off the florida keys.

 

At one time in the past there was a future requirement that ships built after some date, and larger than some size

were required to have helipads. I guess this requirement changed, as it did not seem to happen.

[pablo222]

No. It is a precaution to prevent injury to passengers in their cabins in case the helicopter crashes into the ship.

 

Thanks. I had no idea.

 

In the event being discussed, passengers were only required to stay off their balconies.

 

There are some more details here.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=56954682&postcount=60

[CRUZBUDS]

Originally posted by caribill No. It is a precaution to prevent injury to passengers in their cabins in case the helicopter crashes into the ship.

We were on a cruise a year or so ago while a helicopter evacuation was taking place around lunch time. I assume for added safety in case of a miss-hap, there was a Coast Guard plane circling the ship at a distance. We watched it as we had lunch in the MDR, it came in the view every few minutes for at least a half an hour.

[SharkieRools]

Even cruise ships that have helipads rarely use them. chengkp75 gives a good explanation here:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=56523942&postcount=19

 

We were on a Celebrity ship with a helipad off the coast of Canada several years ago where the patient was hoisted up to the helicopter. Seas were relatively calm at the time with little wind.

[1emerald1]

The Captain was Diego Perra.

 

I was in an ocean view cabin and could not hear the original announcements clearly. We were asleep and the first announcements were made throughout the ship but not in the cabins. So, not sure if those in the balcony cabins heard anything clearly or not. Or whether or not those involved were told directly by there room stewards to get inside or had to rely on just the announcements. Plus the helicopter was very loud.

 

But, the Captain made at least 2 announcements directly into all cabins about getting inside and closing the doors. And I heard 2 separate people from deck 12 talk about their room stewards coming to their doors to tell them to leave, so am assuming others got the same kind of visits from their room stewards. A personal visit rather than relying on overhead announcements seems the more likely scenario. Especially in light of at least one person at the presentation Q&A stating they did not hear all the announcements. Whether that's the case or not, from the Captain's wording and his tone it was very clear he felt his orders were being ignored rather than not having been heard. He was very straightforward and quite stern.

 

During the presentation he must have mentioned "Safety first" at least 3 or 4 times. He pointed out that they prepare for these kinds of things with an attitude of "what if". In this case, "what if" the helicopter crashes. For this reason there were 2 fire teams dispatched before the helicopter got anywhere near the ship. He showed several photos of fires caused by jet fuel, apologized for doing so since they were kind of scary, but pointed out that they take this kind of thing very seriously. He then went on to explain how the Coast Guard teams send down a man with the line that is eventually attached to the litter. Once attached they send the patient up in the litter and then retrieve the man on board.

 

He also showed, as stated by Pam, the photos of those who would not go inside.

 

His presentation was very enlightening and I was amazed at what actually goes into such a procedure. It is very dangerous and they would not have done it if they felt the patient could wait. He wouldn't really say what happened, confidentially issues I suppose, but he did remind us all to turn on the lights when we get out of bed at night. He finished his presentation by stating that the USCG had called him about 10:30 a.m. and told him the patient was at the hospital.

 

I was very impressed with Captain Perra. And all those involved.

Thank you for your detailed first hand account.

[Thrak]

I have always been under the impression that, when at sea, the captain of a ship was the absolute "supreme authority" and that disobeying a direct order of the captain - whether crew or passenger - was a serious offense. I don't know that Princess will do anything about this lack of respect on the part of these passengers - so many corporate entities these days seem to cringe from "offending" customers - but I would hope they would ban these people from cruising on any Carnival Corporation ship. I doubt it will happen but it would definitely be fitting.

[TheRabbit]

I have always been under the impression that, when at sea, the captain of a ship was the absolute "supreme authority" and that disobeying a direct order of the captain - whether crew or passenger - was a serious offense. I don't know that Princess will do anything about this lack of respect on the part of these passengers - so many corporate entities these days seem to cringe from "offending" customers - but I would hope they would ban these people from cruising on any Carnival Corporation ship. I doubt it will happen but it would definitely be fitting.

Maybe next time they should announce that all those wanting a close look at the rescue to proceed to the theater. Then lock them inside with an old Laurel and Hardy movie Sap at Sea to watch after an announcement from the captain on safety.:eek:

[Blondilu]

I have always been under the impression that, when at sea, the captain of a ship was the absolute "supreme authority" and that disobeying a direct order of the captain - whether crew or passenger - was a serious offense. I don't know that Princess will do anything about this lack of respect on the part of these passengers - so many corporate entities these days seem to cringe from "offending" customers - but I would hope they would ban these people from cruising on any Carnival Corporation ship. I doubt it will happen but it would definitely be fitting.

 

I don't know, either, whether or not they can do anything. But, he did say he would report the balcony folks to the Coast Guard, leaving me to believe the USCG has some authority. Also, when asked at the Q&A why they didn't show some of this kind of info at the muster drill the Captain said something to the effect of they can't warn everyone of every single possibility (MediEvacs, collisions, flooding, etc.) as it would take too long and as near a quote as I can remember he said, "You could just follow your Captain's orders." The audience applauded at this point.

 

Basically I felt the presentation was to inform and educate. Not to apologize, but to let everyone know who was boss. I'm not sure I will ever forget the last announcement. Spoken loudly and sternly, "This is the Captain, all passengers in port side balcony cabins: go inside and close the doors IMMEDIATELY."

[villauk]

A friend posted photos of the Captain’s presentation in the Princess Theater yesterday afternoon on social media. He explained the procedure, with photos and diagrams, and included pictures of the people on their balconies for everyone to see. Yea!

 

 

Yes, he did post their pictures - some couldn’t even be bothered to put clothing on as it was more important to take photos off their balcony when the captain had specifically asked them get inside immediately!

[Cruisertino]

I was on this ship. This is my first cruise.

 

It was early morning and we were still asleep. I was awoken by some noise coming from outside our room and sounded like announcement about port side, mumble mumble, close door., mumble mumble. i think it took a few tries to finally broadcast into all the cabins. I had to crack open the balcony door ( but didn’t go outside because it was really cold ) in order to hear the broadcast clearly because the in room PA just did not work.

 

There has been a lot of problems in their PA system on this ship. It seems they often press the wrong button and the broadcast would go out to the wrong place. A couple of times earlier in the week there was announcement not supposed to be broadcast to guest cabins got broadcasted.

 

I also noticed there were many Asian guests on board and some of them don’t really speak English and probably have no idea what’s going on.

[donaldsc]

I don't know, either, whether or not they can do anything. But, he did say he would report the balcony folks to the Coast Guard, leaving me to believe the USCG has some authority. Also, when asked at the Q&A why they didn't show some of this kind of info at the muster drill the Captain said something to the effect of they can't warn everyone of every single possibility (MediEvacs, collisions, flooding, etc.) as it would take too long and as near a quote as I can remember he said, "You could just follow your Captain's orders." The audience applauded at this point.

 

Basically I felt the presentation was to inform and educate. Not to apologize, but to let everyone know who was boss. I'm not sure I will ever forget the last announcement. Spoken loudly and sternly, "This is the Captain, all passengers in port side balcony cabins: go inside and close the doors IMMEDIATELY."

 

While the Coast Guard may not be able to do anything, the cruise companies individually and a group certainly can. They could blackball the offending passengers forever cruising on any cruise ship anywhere including the Staten Island ferry for the rest of their lives. They could also publicize the names of the offending passengers so that they are totally shamed in the eyes of everyone who cares.

 

DON

[chengkp75]

I have always been under the impression that, when at sea, the captain of a ship was the absolute "supreme authority" and that disobeying a direct order of the captain - whether crew or passenger - was a serious offense. I don't know that Princess will do anything about this lack of respect on the part of these passengers - so many corporate entities these days seem to cringe from "offending" customers - but I would hope they would ban these people from cruising on any Carnival Corporation ship. I doubt it will happen but it would definitely be fitting.

 

Well, that is mainly from the old days when a ship was out of communication with the rest of the world for months or years at a time. While the Captain does have "overriding authority" to make decisions for the safety of the ship, crew, passengers, cargo, and environment, he is still only the supreme legal authority of the flag state onboard, and as such can only charge someone with an "offense" if it is a violation of flag state law. Crew can be disciplined for violating or disregarding any legal order of a ship's officer (deck and engine officers, not hotel supervisors), but passengers can only be disciplined (not charged in a legal sense) for violations or disregard of orders pertaining to the areas noted above. The Captain's authority allows discipline such as confinement onboard, and disembarkation at next port for things like fighting (that affect the safety of the two parties to the fight).

 

In the best of all worlds, the Captain should have dispatched Security to clear the cabins, but Security is a small team, and they were involved with securing the hoisting location, so that was likely not an option, and would have seriously delayed the evolution. In my opinion, once the Captain saw that folks were not leaving their balconies, he should have mustered all senior supervisors and officers, and sent them as teams to tell guests to leave, under threat of disembarkation, rather than sending cabin stewards who by nature are gracious to the guests, and have a hard time saying anything other than as a request.

 

The USCG can do nothing about this, no more than they or any other first responder who have to deal with boneheads and rubberneckers at accident sites. Name posting would have very little effect as very few people know each other on a cruise, and banning them would only affect Princess' bottom line, not inconvenience the passengers, since there is no way that all the cruise lines would agree to ban a person from all their lines, and the person would just choose a different cruise line.

 

What I believe the Captain should have done, was, again in a perfect world, assemble all the offending guests the same day, preferably by Security shortly after the medivac, for a lecture and a warning that their behavior has been noted and flagged at corporate, and any future violation of company policy would result in early disembarkation, for any cruise with Princess in the future. This, however, would be similar to herding cats, and not likely of success. But, as noted, they have video of which cabins were in disregard, and those cabins could have received a letter from the Captain stating the same, and an announcement from the Captain on the PA that those letters had been sent and what they said.

[jagsfan]

I was on this ship. This is my first cruise.

 

 

 

It was early morning and we were still asleep. I was awoken by some noise coming from outside our room and sounded like announcement about port side, mumble mumble, close door., mumble mumble. i think it took a few tries to finally broadcast into all the cabins. I had to crack open the balcony door ( but didn’t go outside because it was really cold ) in order to hear the broadcast clearly because the in room PA just did not work.

 

 

 

There has been a lot of problems in their PA system on this ship. It seems they often press the wrong button and the broadcast would go out to the wrong place. A couple of times earlier in the week there was announcement not supposed to be broadcast to guest cabins got broadcasted.

 

 

 

I also noticed there were many Asian guests on board and some of them don’t really speak English and probably have no idea what’s going on.

 

 

 

This post explains a possible reason the cruisers on their balconies may have been completely innocent of wrongdoing. Imagine their feelings if they are threatened or humiliated by the Captain or other passengers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[capriccio]

This post explains a possible reason the cruisers on their balconies may have been completely innocent of wrongdoing. Imagine their feelings if they are threatened or humiliated by the Captain or other passengers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

No it doesn't since the poster noted that he/she could hear the announcement out on the balcony: "I had to crack open the balcony door ( but didn’t go outside because it was really cold ) in order to hear the broadcast clearly because the in room PA just did not work."

[Blondilu]

Well, that is mainly from the old days when a ship was out of communication with the rest of the world for months or years at a time. While the Captain does have "overriding authority" to make decisions for the safety of the ship, crew, passengers, cargo, and environment, he is still only the supreme legal authority of the flag state onboard, and as such can only charge someone with an "offense" if it is a violation of flag state law. Crew can be disciplined for violating or disregarding any legal order of a ship's officer (deck and engine officers, not hotel supervisors), but passengers can only be disciplined (not charged in a legal sense) for violations or disregard of orders pertaining to the areas noted above. The Captain's authority allows discipline such as confinement onboard, and disembarkation at next port for things like fighting (that affect the safety of the two parties to the fight).

 

In the best of all worlds, the Captain should have dispatched Security to clear the cabins, but Security is a small team, and they were involved with securing the hoisting location, so that was likely not an option, and would have seriously delayed the evolution. In my opinion, once the Captain saw that folks were not leaving their balconies, he should have mustered all senior supervisors and officers, and sent them as teams to tell guests to leave, under threat of disembarkation, rather than sending cabin stewards who by nature are gracious to the guests, and have a hard time saying anything other than as a request.

 

The USCG can do nothing about this, no more than they or any other first responder who have to deal with boneheads and rubberneckers at accident sites. Name posting would have very little effect as very few people know each other on a cruise, and banning them would only affect Princess' bottom line, not inconvenience the passengers, since there is no way that all the cruise lines would agree to ban a person from all their lines, and the person would just choose a different cruise line.

 

What I believe the Captain should have done, was, again in a perfect world, assemble all the offending guests the same day, preferably by Security shortly after the medivac, for a lecture and a warning that their behavior has been noted and flagged at corporate, and any future violation of company policy would result in early disembarkation, for any cruise with Princess in the future. This, however, would be similar to herding cats, and not likely of success. But, as noted, they have video of which cabins were in disregard, and those cabins could have received a letter from the Captain stating the same, and an announcement from the Captain on the PA that those letters had been sent and what they said.

 

Thank you, good info to know.

 

I have a question that maybe you can answer. Would the USCG, or any other Coast Guard, as part of their standard operating procedure, stay away until the area was clear? That seems likely to me. Or would they have eventually come in anyway? Excuse me if this is an ignorant question. I just don't know the answer, but it seems to me that if that's the way they operate for the safety of all, that would give the Captain more authority than he might have in other situations.

 

It's just pretty disheartening to imagine that woman, who could have been my mother a few years ago, languishing on board, waiting for evacuation because of a handful of curious "rubberneckers" who would not get out of the way.