Passport theft-warning

[Copper10-8]

21 hours ago, sambamama said:

I was not looking for sympathy or empathy from this forum, but I but was posting to let people know about consequences. FYI, my passport and wallet were in a pouch I wear around my neck, and that compartment was unzipped...............................

 

If you are so inclined, do you recall anybody in Sintra "bumping into you?" Or being in a situation where there were a bunch of locals congregating in close proximity to you? being distracted by a local? All those are favorite tactics by pickpockets in large cities abroad or at home. What occurred to you happens on a daily basis in cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York City, Miami, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Saint Petersburg, Naples, Rome, Athens, Casablanca, you name it. Professional pickpockets have gone as far as using dolls, wrapped up in a blanket like a real baby, bumping into their victim, and using their "free arm", the one supposedly supporting the "baby", to go into your pockets to grab your wallet, Anytime there is "innocent" and sudden bodily contact with others in touristy places, on the metro/tube/subway, in a bus, waiting for a crosswalk light to change, etc. with someone, be suspicious and check your belongings!

 

I interviewed a passenger/pickpocket victim on Oosterdam about a year ago in Cartagena, Colombia who described his "thief" as a young "lady" who had gone out of her way to dress in traditional Colombian garb (yellow/blue/red colored flowing dress), was hanging out at the very touristy Castillo San Felipe de Barajas fortress, and would offer to pose with tourists for "picture taking". She would use this technique to have her hands "all over" her victim including going into pockets and, in a very subtle way, would "retrieve" wallets with contents. One of the first things a pickpocket does is, after successfully having removed a wallet, cash, a passport (very popular because those are then sold on the black market to the many migrants in Europe or elsewhere),  credit cards, ship I.D., or anything else valuable, is to pass it almost immediately to a nearby or passing accomplice who will rapidly walk away with the loot. If the victim "gets wise" after the fact, and accuses his/her pickpocket, that suspect will feign innocence because he/she knows the stolen item(s) is/are already with someone else

 

After the fact, I know but Just some general advise; use those secured pouches but, when you do, wear them underneath your clothing. Take only a certain amount of cash and one or two credit cards max with you (take a pic of those credit cards showing the account # and exp date and have the 1-800 number of the banks/credit card company available. Guest Services will assist you in contacting those to report a theft). Don't wear expensive watches or shiny jewelry, especially in places like Rio de Janeiro, because the favela/slums inhabitants there, some as young as thirteen, who hang out at the touristy locations will come up behind you, will brazenly rip that jewelry off your neck, and take off with it. There are certain things you can do to make it more difficult. I was stupid and did not do so when walking around with Maasdam crew members in Rio in 2014 during carnival in some really big crowds and promptly got my chain and pendant ripped off my neck by such a thirteen-fourteen year old who hoofed it out of there. I did not follow my own advise, paid a price for it, and was educated that night. During that same night, I saw a "favela gang leader" actually circling our group looking for trade. He apparently did not find anything to his liking and went elsewhere. Let's be careful out there!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Copper10-8

[OlsSalt]

13 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

If you are so inclined, do you recall anybody in Sintra "bumping into you?" Or being in a situation where there were a bunch of locals congregating in close proximity to you? being distracted by a local? All those are favorite tactics by pickpockets in large cities abroad or at home. What occurred to you happens on a daily basis in cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York City, Miami, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Saint Petersburg, Naples, Rome, Athens, Casablanca, you name it. Professional pickpockets have gone as far as using dolls, wrapped up in a blanket like a real baby, bumping into their victim, and using their "free arm", the one supposedly supporting the "baby", to go into your pockets to grab your wallet, Anytime there is "innocent" and sudden bodily contact with others in touristy places, on the metro/tube/subway, in a bus, waiting for a crosswalk light to change, etc. with someone, be suspicious and check your belongings!

 

I interviewed a passenger/pickpocket victim on Oosterdam about a year ago in Cartagena, Colombia who described his "thief" as a young "lady" who had gone out of her way to dress in traditional Colombian garb (yellow/blue/red colored flowing dress), was hanging out at the very touristy Castillo San Felipe de Barajas fortress, and would offer to pose with tourists for "picture taking". She would use this technique to have her hands "all over" her victim including going into pockets and, in a very subtle way, would "retrieve" wallets with contents. One of the first things a pickpocket does is, after successfully having removed a wallet, cash, a passport (very popular because those are then sold on the black market to the many migrants in Europe or elsewhere),  credit cards, ship I.D., or anything else valuable, is to pass it almost immediately to a nearby or passing accomplice who will rapidly walk away with the loot. If the victim "gets wise" after the fact, and accuses his/her pickpocket, that suspect will feign innocence because he/she knows the stolen item(s) is/are already with someone else

 

After the fact, I know but Just some general advise; use those secured pouches but, when you do, wear them underneath your clothing. Take only a certain amount of cash and one or two credit cards max with you (take a pic of those credit cards showing the account # and exp date and have the 1-800 number of the banks/credit card company available. Guest Services will assist you in contacting those to report a theft). Don't wear expensive watches or shiny jewelry, especially in places like Rio de Janeiro, because the favela/slums inhabitants there, some as young as thirteen, who hang out at the touristy locations will come up behind you, will brazenly rip that jewelry off your neck, and take off with it. There are certain things you can do to make it more difficult. I did not so when walking around with Maasdam crew members in Rio in 2014 during carnival in some really big crowds and promptly got my chain and pendant ripped off my neck by such a thirteen-fourteen year old who hoofed it out of there. I did not follow my own advise, paid a price for it, and was educated that night. During that same night, I saw a "favela gang leader" actually circling our group looking for trade. He apparently did not find anything to his liking and went elsewhere. Let's be careful out there!

 

Worth starting a separate thread so we can all learn what can and will happened. Reminded me of the many times we have also been subject to either real theft or attempted theft. (Antigua -Rio - Buenos Aires- Nice- Capetown - St Petersburg - Palermo) Reminded me also why we of late have come to love traveling in the Nordic countries so much - so nice to not have to always be looking over your shoulder when "on vacation".

 

Now I too "wear" everything inside or in easily secured front pockets of a travel safari shirt or vest. . No longer carry a purse and DH did find some "pick-pocket" proof pants at LL Bean or Magellens - can't remember which. But that has still not stopped the attempts. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by OlsSalt

[ger_77]

We were on the same cruise and heard of your experience; however, the ending was that you were forced to leave the ship because you didn't have the proper credentials to get back into the US.  Interesting, how stories change over even a short time. 

 

I am saddened that your lovely cruise was marred by this theft - it can certainly be distressing to know you are suddenly a victim of a crime and aren't receiving an ounce of compassion from some folks in charge.  You needed someone to put their arm around you and tell you it would be okay and offer their assistance, not threaten to put you off the ship, and berate staff members in front of you and others. I hope the rest of your time on the ship made up for this horrible episode.

 

Smooth Sailing!  😀 😀 😀

[iancal]

We have found that there is sometimes a substantial difference between the hours of business of an embassy, consulate, or high commission vs. the hours of business that passport, visa, etc services are available.   In those few time when we did requir service, the visa and passport services had a much more restricted window than did the office itself.

[iancal]

We have found that there is sometimes a substantial difference between the hours of business of an embassy, consulate, or high commission vs. the hours of business that passport, visa, etc services are available.   In those few time when we did requir service, the visa and passport services had a much more restricted window than did the office itself.

[Walfam]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I believe neck pouches and waist belts are secure when worn as intended (under clothing).

 

I use what's often called a "secret pocket" -- you can either pin it inside your pants/skirt or secure it through a loop in a belt (which I don't generally wear) and it's worn INSIDE your clothing. It's pretty easy to unobtrusively "flip" it out if there is a need to retrieve something, but this is better done inside a building or store and not on the street.  Looks like this:  https://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Travel-Undercover-Hidden/dp/B0054IH9UC .  I prefer this to a neck pouch or travel belt as it is more comfortable to wear.

 

I use the same Eagle Creek hidden pocket  with a belt and have also used it by pinning inside skirt or pants.  Depending on the garment, the Eagle Creek silk money belt has been worn.    On our last land-based trip in Europe, because the weather was cool-to-cold, I wore a neck pouch under my clothes,  because it would not be visible AT ALL to the general public, and was easier for me to access with layers of clothing, especially at the airports & immigration.  (I'm well aware of the snip-and-run thieves and neck pouches.)

 

My husband wears these  TravelSmith hidden pocket trousers   year-round, not just for travel.  They wash & wear very easily and well worth the price. There is a zipped pocket inside one of the side pockets.   Before going to Italy, several years ago, I sewed some buttonholes and buttons to make that area even more challenging to pickpockets in Rome & Naples.  We had no problems. 

 

A year or two ago, Rick Steves of the TV show, books, and travel company, was pickpocketed on the one day he did not wear his money belt under his clothing.  Link to his blog post

Edited November 11, 2018 by Walfam

[OlsSalt]

On 11/10/2018 at 10:07 AM, sambamama said:

.... Instead, I went back to the ship and reported the theft and was told it was very likely I would be kicked off the ship. I got very upset, but I and while 2 HAL employees were explaining available options, the ship purser came over and yelled at me. He told me to stop being loud, and to stop insulting his crew (I never insulted them, I was just upset) and that he had to obey the rules. ......

 

Who told you "it was likely you would be kicked off the ship". Exact words by whom?

What did the purser say when he "yelled" at you.

What were you saying when you were "upset", that the purser interpreted as "insulting" his crew?

 

..............."The same day, the the purser cursed out the asst cruise director multiple times in front of the passengers when she made an announcement about a delayed disembarkation"..........

 

What were the exact words and where was the setting where this event took place - assuming this announcement was made over the loud speaker -- where exactly was the purser cursing the Asst CD at the time where 100 other passengers were also gathered?  

 

To give the purser a fair shot after being attacked here unilaterally, it would be helpful to fill out these missing details. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by OlsSalt

[OlsSalt]

Understanding the job of the chief purser:

 

Chief Purser

 

The chief purser is one of the senior officers aboard ship. He oversees the work of crew pursers, including updating all passenger and ship accounts at the end of each cruise. The chief purser allots tips indicated by customers to the proper department and crew members. Payments for concessionaires, such as stores and kiosks aboard ship, are similarly tallied based on the revenues each generated during the cruise and the terms of their contracts. The chief purser makes spreadsheets for each department head and copies for the ship's manager and the main office. When money is delivered to the ship by armored car and brought to the purser's office, the chief purser counts it and makes a report to the main office of monies received. The chief purser also works with port officials to obtain the ship's clearance at every port.

 

Skills and Requirements

Pursers must have an accounting or bookkeeping background and previous experience in accounting and administration. They should have good attention to detail and the ability to work well under pressure. A purser's job on ship is fast-paced, with new passengers and new accounts every week, and pursers need to be both knowledgeable and efficient to do their jobs properly.

[Copper10-8]

40 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

.................................. The chief purser also works with port officials to obtain the ship's clearance at every port.

 

....................................

 

On HAL, on the "S" and "R" ships, as well as on the Prinsendam, so on seven ships, that is correct. On the, soon to be eight, bigger ships, there is an individual known as the "PPO" (Port Paper Officer) who is responsible for the interacting with port officials for ship clearance

Edited November 11, 2018 by Copper10-8

[sail7seas]

I am very sorry for this bad experience and especially  that it happened in the lovely  town of Sintra.  

 

 I wonder if the  early  closing  time at the  consulate is related to this being Armistice Day (in Euope- in u.S.  more commonly referred to as Veterans  Day (tomorrow)     there are so many ceremonies  being conducted)   commemorating 100 year centennial of  the end of WW I.   (11-11-18)  Europe has very good reason to celebrate the end of  the  'War to End all wars  As does most of the world   I wonder if it helped you (on  the ship) that you had your BBO card?      It is surpising,  if so,   seeing they have no photo  and   are    not exactly 'government issued.'  

 

Welcome home.... happy you are safely on  this side of the Atlantic.

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by sail7seas

[VennDiagram]

1 hour ago, ger_77 said:

...

it can certainly be distressing to know you are suddenly a victim of a crime and aren't receiving an ounce of compassion from some folks in charge.  You needed someone to put their arm around you and tell you it would be okay and offer their assistance, not threaten to put you off the ship, and berate staff members in front of you and others. I hope the rest of your time on the ship made up for this horrible episode.

... 

 

I completely agree with you.  IMHO, ANY senior staff member in ANY industry SHOULD  know how to deal effectively and compassionately with a distressed customer. THAT IS PART OF THEIR JOB. 

 

Sambamama I am very sorry this happened to you, from the theft, to the consulate, to the onboard experience.

[sambamama]

Copper 10-8, the street was extremely crowded, and I would have remembered someone bumping into me. No one did. However, as both my passport and wallet were in the same pocket of my pouch which was unzipped, I am sure a skilled pickpocket would have had an easy time of it stealing both. I had fraud alerts on both credit cards, no and I got text messages on both reporting fraud. I I called both companies and reported the fraud and the theft. I gave the information to both the guide and the police. The guide told me he would check the store as we knew the half hour time window and he was going to see if there was video. Olssalt, apparently you have appointed yourself the purser's defender and don't believe what I say. First, I did not witness what the purser said to the assistant cruise director-it was told to me by one of my dinner table mates. I heard the two announcements about the delays in disembarkation 10 minutes apart that triggered the cursing and disparaging remarks made to her that he heard. I have no reason to think he made it up-what motive would he have to do so? In fact, his telling me about this other incident is what convinced me to report mine. Maybe Copper10-8 is right and the purser was having a bad day. Maybe the purser is not an empathetic guy. You act like I called him a monster. I never did. I do not remember every single word I said that night. I was traveling alone, I was the victim of a robbery where my passport, debit card, credit cards, and 250 Euros were stolen. Julie from Guest Services and another woman from Guest Services told me there was a very strong chance I would be removed from the ship. The purser's words to me included that he had to comply with the rules and so he would have to remove me from the ship, that I needed to quiet down and that I was being disrespectful to his crew. That was the gist of his words, but not the exact ones. I never said the purser cursed at me, living I said he yelled at me and that he never expressed any sympathy for my situation. I could have accepted his yelling at me (although I still think it was poor judgment) had he ever said he was sorry for my situation. Julie told me to go to my cabin and come back with my ID. I told her I wasn't sure I had it, but I but I found my MA driver's license and my MA BBO card. I brought those to her, she copied them and said she was faxing them to authorities who would decide if I could stay. In the meantime, I was to stay in my cabin. 

My BBO card has no picture, but I do think it helped sway the authorities. Actually, although the BBO card is not government authorized, the MA Board of Bar Overseers is state government approved. I expected that clearing customs would take an hour or two, but I but it was easy. I got pulled into a room and told to wait with my luggage. I gave the official the police report, but I and the two statements from two other people on the tour and my license and BBO card. The official came back and said I was all set. I managed to have a good time the rest of the cruise. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by sambamama
clarity

[Wendy-Europe]

Sorry about your experience, but i understand why the staff was upset too. It seems like you did not waste one thought about how much money it cost, if the ship is not able to leave at their scheduled time. And money is a responsibility of the purser. 

 

Unfortunately your experience is something they have to work with more often than they prefer. 

 

For me it sounds like you were upset about the embassy and made your problem with the embassy his problem and when he was not able to solve this problem (Sorry, but you were not at a holland america excursion, your trip, your problem to solve) you were mad at him. 

 

In my opinion : you choose the wrong person.

 

I know, sounds probably not very empathic. But it is the truth. 

[NYteacher]

I now have a “travel purse”. It has a number of features that I love. Every single zipper has a caribiner type opening where they “lock” closed and can’t be opened without “unlocking” the caribiner zip toggle. It has an RFID pocket. The only feature I am unsure about is that the strap has internal wires so that it can’t be cut. I would hate to be dragged along a motorcycle because someone grabbed the bag.

 

My colleague got her mother one before a Mediterranean cruise. Then the mother lost the purse because she hung it over the back of her chair while she was dining. It just goes to show, you can’t make anything completely theft proof as long as a human being is using it.

[Ferry_Watcher]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:18 AM, STANCPA44 said:

That why I have a passport card along with my passport.  I take the passport card when I am off the ship.

Great suggestion!

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, sambamama said:

 First, I did not witness what the purser said to the assistant cruise director-it was told to me by one of my dinner table mates. I heard the two announcements about the delays in disembarkation 10 minutes apart that triggered the cursing and disparaging remarks made to her that he heard. I have no reason to think he made it up-what motive would he have to do so? In fact, his telling me about this other incident is what convinced me to report mine.

 

Julie from Guest Services and another woman from Guest Services told me there was a very strong chance I would be removed from the ship. The purser's words to me included that he had to comply with the rules and so he would have to remove me from the ship, that I needed to quiet down and that I was being disrespectful to his crew. That was the gist of his words, but not the exact ones. 

I'm sorry you lost or had your Passport stolen and it must have been extremely upsetting for you.  However, why would you include in your first post about the Purser cursing at the Asst. CD when you are now saying you did not hear it yourself?  You don't know that to be fact and yet that convinced you to report your complaint and you posted it as if you heard it yourself?  

 

Were you being disrespectful to the Crew?  Why were you told to quiet down?  I'm not taking anything away from you being upset but people who get upset normally aren't told they are being disrespectful and also told to quiet down. 

 

I wasn't there and don't know the other side of the story.  I'm not trying to defend the Purser but some of your comments have me questioning if there's more to it.

 

Thank you for posting though about your experience and glad it worked out for you in the end.  

Edited November 11, 2018 by idiebabe

[idiebabe]

6 hours ago, iancal said:

I was not there.  But I have spent enough years dealing with customer sat issues to know that some people have two personalities.  One that we see after an event, the other that comes out during an event.

I've spent many years dealing with Customers, too, and you are spot on with the way you summed it up!  I maybe quoting you! 😂

[sambamama]

My whole point to this thread was to warn people about passport theft and to mention a lack of empathy by an officer. Instead, I find myself attacked, my actions questioned, people saying I did or said things I did not do, and people wanting a word by word accounting of what happened which they still would not believe because it was only one side. I never said I saw the purser curse at the asst cruise director, I only mentioned it as another example of his poor behavior. No, I was not disrepectful to the crew, and I never have been, but I was crying fairly loudly. I am sure the purser did not want people seeing or hearing that. I am not going to comment in this thread again as a few people seem to forget who the victim was here. I too, have worked years in the customer service industry, but I have worked many more years talking to victims and empathy and respect is always paramount in dealing with them. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by sambamama
clarity

[adrift@sea]

6 minutes ago, sambamama said:

My whole point to this thread was to warn people about passport theft and to mention a lack of empathy by an officer. Instead, I find myself attacked, my actions questioned, people saying I did or said things I did not do, and people wanting a word by word accounting of what happened which they still would not believe because it was only one side. I never said I saw the purser curse at the asst cruise director, I only mentioned it as another example of his poor behavior. No, I was not disrepectful to the crew, and I never have been, but I was crying fairly loudly. I am sure the purser did not want people seeing or hearing that. I am not going to comment in this thread again as a few people seem to forget who the victim was here. I too, have worked years in the customer service industry, but I have worked many more years talking to victims and empathy and respect is always paramount in dealing with them. 

I am so sorry that you had this terrible experience that was only made so much worse by the purser. I have witnessed passengers being extremely rude to crew and officers over far less than this and yet the situations were still handled with respect, tact and diplomacy. If the purser was having a bad day, then he should have kept his contact minimal with passengers. His behavior was inappropriate and unacceptable for any reason. If he can't rise to the job, then he should not be in it.

 

Please don't feel you owe anyone on these boards any kind of explanation because you don't. It's always easier to be dismissive of other people's experiences. I am a strong believer in karma.

 

A female traveling alone in Europe who just had her passport, credit cards and cash stolen told she would probably be put off the ship--yes I think she would be more than a little upset.  I would not hesitate to take this issue on how you were treated right up the ladder in Seattle.  I will put up with a lot but I will not put up with disrespect and a dismissive attitude regarding such a serious incident.

[Hlitner]

I will not comment on the Pursers behavior since there are usually two sides to every story and we only have 1/2 of the equation.  But all these events were set in motion because the OP made a decision to carry their Passport off the ship.  Many experienced travelers and cruisers have warned, for many years, to not carry a Passport unless it is truly necessary.  Otherwise, it is best kept locked in a secure location like a cabin safe, hotel safe, etc.  We have done more then our share of cruising and have rarely known a cruise ship to tell folks to carry their Passports except in a few countries where it is a strict requirement (such as Russia).  

 

The best way to avoid these kind of nasty situations is by prevention.  And in this case, leaving the Passports in the cabin safe and only carrying the valuables necessary for the port day would have made life a lot easier for the OP.

 

Hank

[sail7seas]

5 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

Great suggestion!

  Last time I renewed my passport I also got a passport card   but do not think it adequate for embarkin g  a c ruise  ship or as ID at an airport.  However,  I am happy  to have  it for other  ID   uses.

 

If,  I am mistaken and  it can be  used for  airport  or  ship embarkation, someone please correct me.

Edited November 12, 2018 by sail7seas

[avian777]

5 hours ago, sambamama said:

... I too, have worked years in the customer service industry, but I have worked many more years talking to victims and empathy and respect is always paramount in dealing with them. 

 

Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly what is "the customer service industry"?  TYIA

[crystalspin]

1 hour ago, sail7seas said:

If,  I am mistaken and  it can be  used for  airport  or  ship embarkation, someone please correct me.

Sails --

The passport card was sufficient for my mom to sail to Alaska with a stop at Victoria. I believe they are only NOT allowed for flights.

 

ETA: OTOH -- it may have only been OK because is was Canada. With Canada and Mexico, by land or sea, being the PP card's value.

Edited November 12, 2018 by crystalspin
Thought of something additional.

[sail7seas]

🙂   Thanks for that info

 

[RDC1]

13 hours ago, crystalspin said:

Sails --

The passport card was sufficient for my mom to sail to Alaska with a stop at Victoria. I believe they are only NOT allowed for flights.

 

ETA: OTOH -- it may have only been OK because is was Canada. With Canada and Mexico, by land or sea, being the PP card's value.

Passport Cards are good for land or ship travel only in US, Canada, Mexico and Caribbean.