Another dress code question

[AndyMichelle]

8 hours ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

I would hardly compare Celebrity to Butlins. Jeans and a shirt are fine for their “formal” nights. 

Surely jeans, even smart ones, could never be classed as formal?

Andy

[majortom10]

3 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Surely jeans, even smart ones, could never be classed as formal?

Andy

It is in many peoples eyes unfortunately.

[AndyMichelle]

44 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

It is in many peoples eyes unfortunately.

I don't get it Majortom.

I am all for smart casual, but don't feel you can mix the two.

Michelle loves to dress up on the formal nights and if I rocked up in a pair of Levi's while she was in her posh frock, I would be eating alone...

Andy

[Highpeaklad]

11 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't get it Majortom.

I am all for smart casual, but don't feel you can mix the two.

Michelle loves to dress up on the formal nights and if I rocked up in a pair of Levi's while she was in her posh frock, I would be eating alone...

Andy

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

33 minutes ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

I wonder what the difference is in reality between so-called 'designer' jeans and a pair from Primark costing about 10% of the price?  Apart from the price and the label, of course.  Most of them come from the same factories in the far east, with the same underpaid workers, and the only difference is the price and the profit margin.

[Highpeaklad]

Just now, docco said:

I wonder what the difference is in reality between so-called 'designer' jeans and a pair from Primark costing about 10% of the price?  Apart from the price and the label, of course.  Most of them come from the same factories in the far east, with the same underpaid workers, and the only difference is the price and the profit margin.

 

My favourite designer is Primark! I hope Celebrity are suitably impressed.😀

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

Does the restaurant manager/head waiters on the door as you go into restaurant check the labels to make sure they are "designer" end of the day jeans are jeans. One very good reason not to cruise with Celebrity.

Edited May 27, 2019 by majortom10

[Harry Peterson]

14 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Does the restaurant manager/head waiters on the door as you go into restaurant check the labels to make sure they are "designer" end of the day jeans are jeans. One very good reason not to cruise with Celebrity.

Much the same though as the P&O restaurant managers attempting to decide what exactly constitutes a 'dark suit'.  What's a suit?  What's dark?  There are plenty of suits in dark denim - rather like jeans.  Scruffy trainers are also within the rules.

 

Impossible to enforce, so they don't even try - very sensibly.  Shorts will present a problem, no tie might, no jacket might.  Who knows?  You can't enforce the unenforceable.

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

Marella have 'dress to impress', similar to Celebrity but no open toed shoes for men!

[AndyMichelle]

3 hours ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

Evening chic is something completely different to formal,

more akin to smart casual.

I have no problem with either, just don't try to mix them.

Andy

[NSWP]

16 hours ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

Having recently been on HAL - Noordam, much the same for their Gala nights - new name for formal night.  At our MDR sitting, I spotted a handful in dinner suits and jackets and ties, but in the main, casual and they were complying with new dress codes.

[vwgolf]

I've just returned from a two-nighter on Ventura and on the whole the dress code on the formal night was well observed. For the first time in 22 cruises I elected to wear a suit and tie rather than a DJ and bowtie and didn't feel at all out of place. Whether or not these dress codes are relevant to the 21st century is a moot point but I do believe that if there is a code, it should be adhered to; as soon as exceptions are made, it becomes pointless.

[daiB]

Just now, vwgolf said:

I've just returned from a two-nighter on Ventura and on the whole the dress code on the formal night was well observed. For the first time in 22 cruises I elected to wear a suit and tie rather than a DJ and bowtie and didn't feel at all out of place. Whether or not these dress codes are relevant to the 21st century is a moot point but I do believe that if there is a code, it should be adhered to; as soon as exceptions are made, it becomes pointless.

Just thinking about this I now do not have a suit. only a DJ. not had a suit for 20+ years

[Balaena]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

Just thinking about this I now do not have a suit. only a DJ. not had a suit for 20+ years

It's interesting Dai, but since we have started cruising again on Aurora I have taken to wearing a tie on a number of casual evenings, really the first time I have since they stopped semi-formals all those years back. Interestingly I am not alone as quite a few guys also adopt ties and jackets as casual evening attire. Also great to bring out those fab ties from the 80's and wow, get loads of positive comments when walking through the ship .. particularly from the ladies.  Personally I think they should semi-formal should be reintroduced.

[davecttr]

Semi formal should be introduced? That would mean the return of the tramps convention which is what the dining room looked like on jacket required nights. It was more sophisticated on casual evenings!

[Dermotsgirl]

14 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Semi formal should be introduced? That would mean the return of the tramps convention which is what the dining room looked like on jacket required nights. It was more sophisticated on casual evenings!

For those that like semi formal, CMV have a few semi formal nights.

 

We recently had a CMV cruise, and my husband decided to take a tie this time.  It had been some years since he'd worn it, as it still had a dry cleaning tag on it from 2013!  It lasted as long as the end of dinner, then he took it off.  He spent a lifetime wearing ties to work, he didn't really feel in the mood to start wearing them again on holiday.

 

 

[Denarius]

Some random thoughts on the previous posts.
Like Dai, the only suit I possess, apart from my birthday suit, is a dinner suit. This was not always the case. I worked in an enviroment where (at the time) suited and booted was the norm. Typically I would have at least four suits in my wardrobe, and could not wait to get out of them when I got home. To me, suits and ties were working clothes, not something I chose to wear when I was not working and certainly not on holiday. When I retired so did my suits, and apart from dinner suits I have not bought or worn one since. My father however, was totally different. He worked in industry and wore overalls at work. He loved to exchange these for a suit and tie in his own time. To him this meant that he was dressed up and at leisure, where to me it meant the opposite.
Things are however changing, and in my old company smart casual is now the norm. The pendulum has swung the other way. So will those who are now able to dress casually at work, or are subject to peer pressure to do so, opt increasingly, like my late father, to dress more formally on nights out? It is an intriguing thought.
Watch this space!

Edited May 28, 2019 by Denarius
Overtaken by further posts whilst composing!

[DamianG]

On 5/19/2019 at 2:40 PM, kruzseeka said:

 for me that is a I'm sure you're right.  I think there is a distinct difference in the passenger demographic between ships - and itinerary makes a difference too so people's varying estimates of numbers in DJs are quite likely all correct - for that ship, that itinerary and those passengers on a given cruise.

 There's no doubt P&O are trying to attract a younger clientele and families mainly to the newer larger ships.  As a consequence I can see the likelihood of a change in adherence and imposition of formal dress codes on these ships whereas older, seasoned cruisers are perhaps more likely to want to retain the formal aspects of cruising and this is more likely to be found on Aurora, Arcadia.

It would be a pity though if both camps can't be catered for.  

I completely agree with this. In our pre-parenting days we always travelled in term time and barely noticed anyone not dressed formally on formal evenings. I do recall one chap in a bomber jacket and jeans being refused entry to the Crows Nest after 6pm (on Oriana) but that's about it. I also remember 2 large chaps on a Caribbean cruise in the casino one evening still dressed in their daytime vests and shorts. The following (formal) evening they looked great in full dinner suits.

Fast forward to present times when we take one cruise a year with our young son in August and it is a different story altogether. I wouldn't like to guess a percentage number but there is definitely a higher proportion of passengers who prefer not to dress up at all. As for smart casual for me that's a collared shirt (usually long sleeved), dark cotton trousers and black shoes but for many gentlemen it is often a polo shirt (some with a logo), jeans (all colours and styles) and various footwear including trainers.

[vwgolf]

45 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Things are however changing, and in my old company smart casual is now the norm. The pendulum has swung the other way. So will those who are now able to dress casually at work, or are subject to peer pressure to do so, opt increasingly, like my late father, to dress more formally on nights out? It is an intriguing thought.
 

At a company I used to work for, it was business suits Monday to Thursday and dress down on Fridays. This then changed to casual all week so a few of us decided to make Friday a dress-up day and elected to wear suits and ties! This soon fizzled out, though, and we just dressed in every day clothes all week which is what I do at my present company. The only time I now wear a jacket and tie is on cruise formal nights and the occasional wedding/funeral - and even they are now more casual then they used to be.

[Denarius]

On 5/28/2019 at 4:13 PM, vwgolf said:

At a company I used to work for, it was business suits Monday to Thursday and dress down on Fridays. This then changed to casual all week so a few of us decided to make Friday a dress-up day and elected to wear suits and ties! This soon fizzled out, though, and we just dressed in every day clothes all week which is what I do at my present company. The only time I now wear a jacket and tie is on cruise formal nights and the occasional wedding/funeral - and even they are now more casual then they used to be.

Things followed a similar pattern at my old company. Our new chairman was keen to introduce dress down Fridays, ostensively to allow those wishing to start a weekend away straight from work to do so in casual garb. This split the management. Most saw it as the first step to an all casual code and reacted for or against accordingly. Inevitably, many employees asked what logical reason there was for requiring formal dress on some days and not on others. If casual dress was OK on a Friday, why was it not OK on other days. This resulted in a ballot in which employees were asked to choose between two options; smart casual (subject to stated guidelines) every day or formal attire (jacket and tie for men, dresses, skirts or trouser suits for women) every day. The staff voted four to one in favour of smart casual.

[Bazrat]

2 hours ago, Denarius said:

Things followed a similar pattern at my old company. Our new chairman was keen to introduce dress down Fridays, ostensively to allow those wishing to start a weekend away straight from work to do so in casual garb. This split the management. Most saw it as the first step to an all casual code and reacted for or against accordingly. Inevitably, many employees asked what logical reason there was for requiring formal dress on some days and not on others. If casual dress was OK on a Friday, why was it not OK on other days. This resulted in a ballot in which employees were asked to choose between two options; smart casual (subject to stated guidelines) every day or formal attire (jacket and tie for men, dresses, skirts or trouser suits for women) every day. The staff voted four to one in favour of smart casual.

We had the same thing all staff we’re allowed to dress down on a Friday so as I was a senior member of the shop floor staff I asked how was I going to dress down,because I had to wear overalls for safety reasons I’m still waiting for a reply.

[peteukmcr]

On 5/27/2019 at 10:02 AM, Highpeaklad said:

 

Celebrity version of formal is ”evening chic” and designer jeans and a button down shirt is the suggested attire. 

 

 

You have been very selective in your description of Celebrity "Evening Chic" to suggest only designer jeans and button down shirt is expected. The dress code for men is actually described as below

 

Pants or designer jeans with a dress shirt, button-down shirt or sweater

Optional sport coat or blazer

Evening Chic means that you can get glamorous and be sophisticated in your own way. If you would like to still wear a tuxedo or formal gown on Evening Chic nights, you absolutely should.

 

So let's give the full picture please for a balanced report, not be so selective for dramatic effect. And for those who have not sailed anything other than P&O, I can vouch for the fact that many still do wear Tuxedos on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Cunard, MSC and even on the 'freestyle' line Norwegian. Admittedly not to the percentage witnessed on P&O, but it's not as regimented and dictated on those lines. Oh and BTW before you have a go at me, we still wear tuxes or DJ's on these lines. 

 

I don't understand why there is so much animosity and vitriol towards those who do not wish to wear formal attire on P&O. If you are comfortable in what you wear, why should it bother you what others wear?

Edited May 31, 2019 by peteukmcr

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, peteukmcr said:

I don't understand why there is so much animosity and vitriol towards those who do not wish to wear formal attire on P&O. If you are comfortable in what you wear, why should it bother you what others wear?

I think that's the point the anti-compulsory formal brigade are making. If those who want to wear formal are comfortable in what they wear, why should it bother them what others wear?

[Highpeaklad]

14 minutes ago, peteukmcr said:

You have been very selective in your description of Celebrity "Evening Chic" to suggest only designer jeans and button down shirt is expected. The dress code for men is actually described as below

 

Pants or designer jeans with a dress shirt, button-down shirt or sweater

Optional sport coat or blazer

Evening Chic means that you can get glamorous and be sophisticated in your own way. If you would like to still wear a tuxedo or formal gown on Evening Chic nights, you absolutely should.

 

So let's give the full picture please for a balanced report, not be so selective for dramatic effect. And for those who have not sailed anything other than P&O, I can vouch for the fact that many still do wear Tuxedos on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Cunard, MSC and even the 'freestyle' line Norwegian. Admittedly not to the percentage witnessed on P&O, but it's not as regimented and dictated on those lines. Oh and BTW before you have a go at me, we still wear tuxes or DJ's on these lines. 

 

I don't understand why there is so much animosity and vitriol towards those who do not wish to wear formal attire on P&O. If you are comfortable in what you wear, why should it bother you what others wear?

 

Perhaps I should have said, minimum attire then. Still true though. 

Personally, I’m completely against the compulsory nature of the formal dress code on P&O - being banished to the buffet. Surely one side of the MDR could be casual on a formal night. I don’t care what anyone else wears, so I think those who like formal dress should be encouraged to wear it every night. You’re on your holiday, you should be able to wear what you’re comfortable in whether it’s jeans and t-shirt or full formal attire. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Highpeaklad

[peteukmcr]

8 minutes ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Perhaps I should have said, minimum attire then. Still true though. 

Personally, I’m completely against the compulsory nature of the formal dress code on P&O - being banished to the buffet. Surely one side of the MDR could be casual on a formal night. I don’t care what anyone else wears, so I think those who like formal dress should be encouraged to wear it every night. You’re on your holiday, you should be able to wear what you’re comfortable in. 

Totally agree. We're so close (99% convinced) to getting some friends to join us on the same P&O sailing as us, but the 1 issue preventing them from committing is the dress code. However, as I have reviewed the current P&O dress code for Britannia, it no longer appears as restrictive in terms of venues after 6pm where formal attire is mandatory. 

 

RCI did try introducing a 'formal' only restaurant on one of their Oasis class ships as part of a 'rotational' dining concept. However, the rotational dining concept didn't work and was abandoned and so was the 'formal only' venue unfortunately. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by peteukmcr