New York Times Article today (5/28/19) - Peter Max - art fraud on the high seas

[WyomingGuys]

Interesting and sad read about Peter Max & Park West from the New York Times today. Not surprised. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/business/peter-max-dementia-cruise-ship-auctions.html

Edited May 28, 2019 by WyomingGuys

[CroozFanatic]

A fool and his money...

Edited May 28, 2019 by CroozFanatic

[Laszlo]

43 minutes ago, WyomingGuys said:

Interesting and sad read about Peter Max & Park West from the New York Times today. Not surprised. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/business/peter-max-dementia-cruise-ship-auctions.html

 

Good read, as an artist I'm not surprised

Edited May 28, 2019 by Laszlo

[Greenpea2]

This is very sad to me. 

 

[fstuff1]

59 minutes ago, WyomingGuys said:

Interesting and sad read about Peter Max & Park West from the New York Times today. Not surprised. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/business/peter-max-dementia-cruise-ship-auctions.html

 

Park West said that every Max the gallery sells is unique???

I've seen the same Max painting on multiple NCL ships!

Who are they kidding?

 

cheaper to buy one from eBay from all those Park West customers that decided not to keep them.

 

[LaCal]

I’d never trust buying art on a cruise and especially after reading this article 

[lanceholt]

PLEASE don't buy "art" on a cruise ship.....there have been several problems with Park West through the years.  Do your homework.

[lanceholt]

What will be interesting is to see whether the cruise lines who carry his "original" work will pull all Peter Max from their art auctions. 

[tutuwahineLV]

I'm always intrigued by anyone who would buy "art" while on a cruise,  and I guess the same goes for those that purchase high dollar jewelry.  ......never makes sense to me, I'd much rather make those sort of purchases closer to home, I cruise for the experience, not to buy new 'bling'.   But to each his own, far be it from me to tell others how to spend their $$$$ 

[amygutman]

We enjoy the art "shows" on the ship for the fun - it's really a great social outing. 

 

As for the art, he have actually purchased 2 small items...nothing expensive, but both caught my husband's and mine eyes. We have very, very different tastes, so to have any painting appeal to both of us was surprisingly wonderful, and reminded us of the trip itself - sailboats and NY harbor. 

 

The history of the art classes are interesting, and you can grab a little drink and snack while spending an hour watching folks act silly during the spending spree. If you do your homework, you quickly realize that buying art itself is a crapshoot, even from a "reputable" dealer...but if you buy something that you love rather than for an investment, isn't that the purpose of art itself?

 

Personally, I intensely dislike Peter Max's work - looks like a very untalented pre-teen's paintings. Have never understood why anyone would buy it - especially the ugly crystal sculptures. Hubby, however, thinks they are awesome....which is why I never let him attend one the auctions solo and we have happily remained Max-less to this day 😊

 

Amy

[tallnthensome]

I can’t believe anyone would by artwork on any cruise ship. I bet 95% of people who fall for Park West and their artwork have never walked into an art gallery and purchased artwork. These are impulse buys, boredom, or done so people can brag to their friends they bought their art at sea ..... even though most of the crap isn’t orginal but a copy or gilcee . 

[cruisencrazy]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

I can’t believe anyone would by artwork on any cruise ship. I bet 95% of people who fall for Park West and their artwork have never walked into an art gallery and purchased artwork. These are impulse buys, boredom, or done so people can brag to their friends they bought their art at sea ..... even though most of the crap isn’t orginal but a copy or gilcee . 

We have purchased fairly expensive art on a ship. And would you believe we had been following the artist’s series in several art galleries.... buyer beware...do your homework. Art is worth what you are willing to pay for it.  

[david_sobe]

13 hours ago, lanceholt said:

PLEASE don't buy "art" on a cruise ship.....there have been several problems with Park West through the years.  Do your homework.

That is an understatement.  I once attended one of their "auctions" on a NCL ship. Besides the issues with the art itself, I found their practices during the auction almost cult like.  People are offered alcohol and then told to clap and cheer during sales just like they do at Time Share sales.  Its all so shady IMHO.  I was shocked to learn they actually have tables for people to open lines of credit to buy their stuff.

Never buy any jewelry or art on a cruise ship.  People are conditioned to believe they got such a good deal until they get home and do their research and homework.

 

[lanceholt]

2 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

That is an understatement.  I once attended one of their "auctions" on a NCL ship. Besides the issues with the art itself, I found their practices during the auction almost cult like.  People are offered alcohol and then told to clap and cheer during sales just like they do at Time Share sales.  Its all so shady IMHO.  I was shocked to learn they actually have tables for people to open lines of credit to buy their stuff.

Never buy any jewelry or art on a cruise ship.  People are conditioned to believe they got such a good deal until they get home and do their research and homework.

 

My husband and I were on the Dawn a few years ago on a repositioning cruise with a number of sea days and amused ourselves in the evenings watching the king of all art salesman work his wiles on guests.....flattery, attention, and talking about his own art collection and how well it has done.  When he was done he had them convinced that they were true art collectors with an excellent eye....in one case to the tune of a $30k painting plus others.  My husband sometimes attends art auctions on the ships just to watch how they operate...on this cruise this salesman had bids sky high at the auctions and yes it is like a cult following, or an Elmer Gantry situation.   No we do not buy expensive jewelry on cruises or at vacation destinations....those prices and evaluations are inflated and you will not have a good experience in the long term.  

[Laszlo]

14 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

That is an understatement.  I once attended one of their "auctions" on a NCL ship. Besides the issues with the art itself, I found their practices during the auction almost cult like.  People are offered alcohol and then told to clap and cheer during sales just like they do at Time Share sales.  Its all so shady IMHO.  I was shocked to learn they actually have tables for people to open lines of credit to buy their stuff.

Never buy any jewelry or art on a cruise ship.  People are conditioned to believe they got such a good deal until they get home and do their research and homework.

 

Don't knock the watches, I bought my 12yo nephew a beater watch for 10 bucks 3 years ago. He wears it everyday, its still going strong 😂

[perditax]

Everyone's in such a rush to judge the suckers who buy the stuff, no one's commenting on how sad it is that a man with Alzheimer's is being exploited for money. By his relatives, of course, but also by the big business with a stake (including Park West and NCL, among others). 

Edited May 29, 2019 by perditax

[lanceholt]

That is very sad also but the end result is that people....many of whom cannot afford what they are talked into with the proffered credit....are the ultimate ones being scammed.  

[graphicguy]

Park West handles the art auctions on ALL mainstream cruise ship lines.  Park West has a sordid past when it comes to selling art.  A little internet sleuthing will turn up all sorts of stories from the Royal Caribbean, Carnival and NCL auctions.  

 

I know the cruise lines get a cut of the proceeds, but I’m not certain the auctions are actually run by cruiselines, themselves.  Maybe a situation where PArk West only leases space on the cruise ships, and fills it with their own employees.  In return, the cruise lines make some sort of commission.

 

Regarding jewelry, I have no issues with their jewelry sales on board.  Sometimes, you can find a decent deal on a piece.  But, I caution everyone who asks me, “buy jewelry to remember your cruise or to give to a loved one who was on the cruise with you.  Don’t buy because it’s a bargain.  Likely, prices are in line with land based jewelry stores (but you save the tax by buying on the ship).  

 

I buy jewelry, quite a bit over the years.  It’s next to impossible to give the stones you buy a rating (and no, a jeweler’s glass won’t help you, except to show imperfections, not the rating).  Of course, if you’re a gemologist, you can buy gems wholesale, in which case, none of the pricing matters.

 

I don’t think you can do any better or worse by buying jewelry on a ship than you can on a land based store.

 

Watches are something I do know a lot more about.  Again, if you have a trusted jeweler that you do business with, you’ll likely be able to get a good deal on something like a Tag (which cruise ships tend to really push in their jewelry dept) that you can have serviced on land. 

 

Park West.....even I get a little insulted by their tactics, and rarely go their auctions.  I think I’ve attended exactly one on board in the decades I’ve cruised.

 

Peter Max....how sleazy of his family and Park West for fostering this sort of sham.

[ColeThornton]

So Peter Max didn't actually paint the Breakaway's hull art by himself?

[njkate]

1 hour ago, david_sobe said:

That is an understatement.  I once attended one of their "auctions" on a NCL ship. Besides the issues with the art itself, I found their practices during the auction almost cult like.  People are offered alcohol and then told to clap and cheer during sales just like they do at Time Share sales.  Its all so shady IMHO.  I was shocked to learn they actually have tables for people to open lines of credit to buy their stuff.

Never buy any jewelry or art on a cruise ship.  People are conditioned to believe they got such a good deal until they get home and do their research and homework.

 

Agree!! On my last cruise had a cruiser boasting about the "deal" he received on emeralds!! I said you do realize no matter what the bargain you thought you received ,NCL still made money off you. I said you were in NYC before the cruise you more then likely would have received a better deal in the diamond district. Fools, boasters and their money are soon parted.

Edited May 29, 2019 by njkate

[graphicguy]

58 minutes ago, njkate said:

Agree!! On my last cruise had a cruiser boasting about the "deal" he received on emeralds!! I said you do realize no matter what the bargain you thought you received ,NCL still made money off you. I said you were in NYC before the cruise you more then likely would have received a better deal in the diamond district. Fools, boasters and their money are soon parted.

There are more jewelry "sharks" in the Diamond District than just about anywhere else in North America.  I would be extremely cautious buying from those who claim "deals" in the Diamond District.  Speaking from experience.

[cruisencrazy]

I have a signature piece of jewelry that I ordered on a HAL ship.  It is amazing and can only be ordered on HAL or Windstar.  It was custom made for me and I love it.   In fact they also made a custom piece for my husband.  You cannot buy it on land or any other store.  I have also purchase gold hoops on a ship... I still like them.  As a rule, we don't cruise through jewelry shops when we are at home, but we do on a ship to "walk off" dinner...  We never purchase anything that would put a strain on our finances.  On a side note, I did purchase a ring once, found it cheaper when I got home, they immediately sent me a credit for the difference.  I had issues with the ring, and they took it back.  Would I buy another ring from them?  Probably not.  It sounds like it was an easy process, but it was not.  The bottom line is...Mind your own business.  Don't judge people for buying art or jewelry.  We all make spur of the moment stupid decisions, especially when we are on vacations.  I do however, appreciate the heads up from the initial poster in this thread.  I cannot stand their auctions, but if I see a piece of art on my stroll,  I may ask about it.  We are fairly knowledgable collectors.

[OCruisers]

Interesting but very sad ....  

[PTC DAWG]

Who am I to judge how someone spends their CASH....???

 

I just came for the drinks.  🙂

Edited May 29, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[Laszlo]

32 minutes ago, cruisencrazy said:

I have a signature piece of jewelry that I ordered on a HAL ship.  It is amazing and can only be ordered on HAL or Windstar.  It was custom made for me and I love it.   In fact they also made a custom piece for my husband.  You cannot buy it on land or any other store.  I have also purchase gold hoops on a ship... I still like them.  As a rule, we don't cruise through jewelry shops when we are at home, but we do on a ship to "walk off" dinner...  We never purchase anything that would put a strain on our finances.  On a side note, I did purchase a ring once, found it cheaper when I got home, they immediately sent me a credit for the difference.  I had issues with the ring, and they took it back.  Would I buy another ring from them?  Probably not.  It sounds like it was an easy process, but it was not.  The bottom line is...Mind your own business.  Don't judge people for buying art or jewelry.  We all make spur of the moment stupid decisions, especially when we are on vacations.  I do however, appreciate the heads up from the initial poster in this thread.  I cannot stand their auctions, but if I see a piece of art on my stroll,  I may ask about it.  We are fairly knowledgable collectors.

If HAL or Windstar custom made a piece of jewelry for you any custom shop can. They are all over the US and Caribbean and the rest of the world. Do you honestly thing they are the only two places you can get custom made pieces?