Organized Chaos Posted September 3, 2019 #26 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I knew I should've mentioned to the OP that their question would spark a heated debate about ambiance, cost, and overall dining experience. 😜 I don't know if they did it because of societal norms or cost (probably both), but even if they took them away just because the industry changed, it still had the added benefit (to a company) of cutting costs. Washing all those tablecloths took a lot of manpower and resources, not to mention replacing them over time, and all those things cost a company money. So to say it "in no way correlates with reduced cost" is flat-out wrong. No business makes changes without analyzing the cost. Whether or not they decide to absorb the expense in order to add to the customer experience is up to each business, but they all pay close attention to expenses. If they don't, they won't be in business long. Regardless of why they did it, when they took away tablecloths, I guarantee you Carnival took notice of the money it'd save them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureMan_2000 Posted September 3, 2019 #27 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) I like doing the simple math... Retail price (Sam's) for a 54"x96" tablecloth: $ 7.00 Retail price (Sam's) for a 90" round tablecloth: $17.50 I'm assuming Carnival can probably purchase these for half the retail price, since they will purchase in bulk. MDR seats approximately 1,300... so estimating an average tabletop size of 4 people between the 8, 6, 4, and 2 tops, there would be 325 tables that need tablecloths. So, assume you need 4 clothes daily... morning, lunch, and 2 dinners. Lets triple that number to 12 as you always needs extras and half the clothes will be in the wash at any given time. Assuming 40 8-top round table clothes ($350), the rest rectangle clothes -- maybe 240 ($840). Total cost of tablecloths: $1,190. Assuming you could get 4 weeks use out of those tablecloths, That's $15,470 a year. Carnival makes $211 profit per passenger per day. So, assuming 3000 passengers, that's $633,000 a day... or $231,045,000 per year. I acknowledge that there will be a small cost to wash these daily. I don't see how $15k+ for tablecloths noticeably hurts the bottom line . I see Carnival lose more with the daily price modifications they make... I've already reduced my booked cruises by $850 since I booked in March due to price reductions. From my perspective, tablecloths were not reduced to save money... they were reduced for many of the other reasons folks here have mentioned -- including more casual dining. Edited September 3, 2019 by VentureMan_2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted September 3, 2019 #28 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, LMaxwell said: Both; following trends has decreased their costs and increased their audience. So...all about money As it is for EVERY cruise line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe817 Posted September 3, 2019 #29 Share Posted September 3, 2019 My theory is, the elimination of putting out table cloths at dinner(or the other meals for that matter) saves labor hours(and labor dollars) and frees up those labor hours to enable the staffs workload to be redistributed, allowing them to do other functions. And if there are staff shortages, that could certainly mitigate some of the problems of those shortages. Just a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geckoaz Posted September 3, 2019 #30 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2012 is long ago..lots of changes on carnival. With regard to tableclothes..did they change them between seatings? Not always. A sneeze at early dining trapped for late dining. A new move to eco minded ships. Less use of washing materials. Ever been asked to reuse a towel in hotel? Even the best hotels. Times are a-changing. But i stll love carnival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser_1977 Posted September 3, 2019 #31 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) I use a placemat at home in place of a table cloth. I don't have a dining room table. I eat at restaurants with tablecloths close to once a week. I would prefer that the tables be clothed; however, I also bathe, groom and dress myself for dinner. My two choices seem to be 1) figure out which cruise lines have them and on what nights 2) only sail the "upscale" lines. I don't have the time for the first and I prefer to cruise more than once a year which puts the second out of budget. Doesn't take up space in my brain to ask why, since it can't be changed. I also don't complain about the absence for the same reason. I am in the minority (dressing for dinner, etc.) and I simply accept that fact. As an aside - I also prefer my table to be "set". However, if cutlery, etc. is in the "incorrect" place I move it. It's been ingrained into the fiber of my being. In today's society, many of the manners and etiquette for which my mother and grandmothers took great pride has gone by the wayside. It doesn't mean I have to change, simply that I must allow for the changes in others. Edited September 3, 2019 by JennyB1977 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrounds Posted September 3, 2019 #32 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 hours ago, Cushing985 said: Honestly, the way most of us dress for dinner makes tablecloths look out of place. Dead on . . . t-shirts, shorts and tennis shoes doesn't scream for tablecloths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indygirl76 Posted September 3, 2019 #33 Share Posted September 3, 2019 45 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said: I use a placemat at home in place of a table cloth. I don't have a dining room table. I eat at restaurants with tablecloths close to once a week. I would prefer that the tables be clothed; however, I also bathe, groom and dress myself for dinner. My two choices seem to be 1) figure out which cruise lines have them and on what nights 2) only sail the "upscale" lines. I don't have the time for the first and I prefer to cruise more than once a year which puts the second out of budget. Doesn't take up space in my brain to ask why, since it can't be changed. I also don't complain about the absence for the same reason. I am in the minority (dressing for dinner, etc.) and I simply accept that fact. As an aside - I also prefer my table to be "set". However, if cutlery, etc. is in the "incorrect" place I move it. It's been ingrained into the fiber of my being. In today's society, many of the manners and etiquette for which my mother and grandmothers took great pride has gone by the wayside. It doesn't mean I have to change, simply that I must allow for the changes in others. FWIW, I dress for dinner every night - my casual night dresses are dressier that most of what I see on formal night. I just don't necessarily associate "no tablecloth" with an etiquette failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsauce126 Posted September 3, 2019 #34 Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 hours ago, ray98 said: LOL.....now a tablecloth has 'value'. Carnival is matching the new norms in society. Table cloths are no longer commonplace. Exactly. Tablecloths are not common even at upscale restaurants in 2019. Obviously they still exist at some places, but usually those places are specifically going for an "old school" vibe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser_1977 Posted September 3, 2019 #35 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) @indygirl76 My comment was not meant to say there is a correlation between tablecloths and etiquette. Simply that I am of a different sort, am aware of my difference and don't expect others to conform to what has been ingrained in me. As for your mention of your clothes. I am sure you're correct. There is a vast array of options on display on any given night of a cruise. The majority seem to think that what I wear (how I dress) is far fancier than they are comfortable with. That was my only point. Edited September 3, 2019 by JennyB1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7786W Flyer Posted September 3, 2019 #36 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 hours ago, LMaxwell said: It's all about the money. I didn't say they haven't "changed" "added" "replaced" "substituted" one item for another. I am just saying it is all about cost. In this case they determined guests aren't willing to pay additional; therefore they can reduce costs. I have to agree with this... As someone who retired from the hospitality industry (hotels, cruise ships, resorts, etc.), USUALLY a customer (meaning Carnival) buys 2X or 3x the total # of beds (or in this case, tables) they have onsite. This allows for some wear and tear on the product as well as some flex time between laundering and return to service. In essence, it allows them to "rotate" the products in and out of service as laundering and product failure dictates. If you would assume that Carnival has 200 tables per ship...and 26 ships, we're talking about a sizeable purchase as well as significant resources (labor, chemical costs, etc.) needed to maintain the product. While it may not be a "cut back" in the conventional sense, getting rid of the table cloths certainly represented an ongoing cost savings for Carnival. How much the actual savings are is anyone's guess. Garnett 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureMan_2000 Posted September 3, 2019 #37 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I guessed $15k plus laundering per year, per 3000 passenger ship ( see my assumptions above). Not sure how this noticeably hurts the bottom line on over $231 million net profit for this assumed capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare dctravel Posted September 3, 2019 #38 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 hours ago, sparks1093 said: The staff did a nice job of keeping things clean. My son has a knack for getting tangled in the table clothes on elegant night! That can really make a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7786W Flyer Posted September 3, 2019 #39 Share Posted September 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, VentureMan_2000 said: I guessed $15k plus laundering per year, per 3000 passenger ship ( see my assumptions above). Not sure how this noticeably hurts the bottom line on over $231 million net profit for this assumed capacity. Probably doesn't...this probably just falls into the category of "where can we cut costs", like the chocolates, etc. Agree that in the broader view that the cost is minimal. Garnett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray98 Posted September 3, 2019 #40 Share Posted September 3, 2019 25 minutes ago, VentureMan_2000 said: I guessed $15k plus laundering per year, per 3000 passenger ship ( see my assumptions above). Not sure how this noticeably hurts the bottom line on over $231 million net profit for this assumed capacity. Stop being logical...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredogCruiser Posted September 3, 2019 #41 Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 hours ago, LMaxwell said: It's all about the money. I didn't say they haven't "changed" "added" "replaced" "substituted" one item for another. I am just saying it is all about cost. In this case they determined guests aren't willing to pay additional; therefore they can reduce costs. I guess I look at it as more of a reallocation of limited resources. If it is true that the increase in the number of P & D's is actually a burden (which I question) then I can see reallocating limited laundry time to satisfy additional P & D laundry perks replacing the laundering of table cloths. Not necessarily a cut, but using a limited resource for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSHLOT Posted September 3, 2019 #42 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, VentureMan_2000 said: I guessed $15k plus laundering per year, per 3000 passenger ship ( see my assumptions above). Not sure how this noticeably hurts the bottom line on over $231 million net profit for this assumed capacity. I dont think anyone is saying it's a huge part of cutbacks, but it's just part of the overall picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organized Chaos Posted September 3, 2019 #43 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said: I guessed $15k plus laundering per year, per 3000 passenger ship ( see my assumptions above). Not sure how this noticeably hurts the bottom line on over $231 million net profit for this assumed capacity. I don't think anyone said it hurt their bottom line. I simply said it was a cost savings that they most certainly noticed when they took them away, even if that wasn't the primary reason for removing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray98 Posted September 3, 2019 #44 Share Posted September 3, 2019 It is only a cost savings if everything else stays static. Any additions at the same time are a cost and may actually have more financial outlay than the internal cost of laundering the table cloths they already own. Everyone wants to talk about 'cut backs' but then ignore expenditures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitemyfly Posted September 3, 2019 #45 Share Posted September 3, 2019 We recently returned from a paradise sailing that was originally scheduled for Cuba. There were 6 of us father and sons . All of us have been on many carnival cruises, one set was platinum. we also have not sailed on carnival in several years .. perhaps 5 or so years. To a man all mentioned no table cloths. all thought it was just a first day issue. all mentioned it as a cheapened experience , not a big deal but it was mentioned. All are well traveled and used to dining in many different venues.. funny but the younger one first mentioned it . Things change , it is what it is ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted September 3, 2019 #46 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, bitemyfly said: We recently returned from a paradise sailing that was originally scheduled for Cuba. There were 6 of us father and sons . All of us have been on many carnival cruises, one set was platinum. we also have not sailed on carnival in several years .. perhaps 5 or so years. To a man all mentioned no table cloths. all thought it was just a first day issue. all mentioned it as a cheapened experience , not a big deal but it was mentioned. All are well traveled and used to dining in many different venues.. funny but the younger one first mentioned it . Things change , it is what it is ! Well, it sure seems you were all on the same page. When was the last time you were all on a Carnival cruise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitemyfly Posted September 3, 2019 #47 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Not sure exactly I do think it was 5 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted September 3, 2019 #48 Share Posted September 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, bitemyfly said: Not sure exactly I do think it was 5 years ago The table cloth debate has been going on for a while now. There are many top restaurants that do not use tablecloths. That said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As you said, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coevan Posted September 3, 2019 #49 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said: The table cloth debate has been going on for a while now. There are many top restaurants that do not use tablecloths. That said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As you said, it is what it is. Table cloths are becoming a thing of the past in fine dining. Sometimes you will see table cloths to hide the cheap tables, like the red and white plastic used in cheesy Italian restaurants. I have eaten at some very upscale restaurants and the tables are gorgeous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick93 Posted September 3, 2019 #50 Share Posted September 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Cushing985 said: When they first got rid of the tablecloths except for the "formaI" nights I was devastated and had to receive counseling for a bit. Some here reported the water condensation from drinking glasses was a problem but there weren't any reported drownings in the MDR so I guess they figured out how to deal with it. Honestly, the way most of us dress for dinner makes tablecloths look out of place. I can live without the table clothes but I don’t like it. However dress has nothing to do with it. We are paying customers who want to be a bit comfortable. They let you into the MDR with your dress you can ask for what you like. I wouldn’t stop cruising carnival for this reason (maybe others) - but I still think we can want them and dress in a way that they allow you to come into dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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