Jewelry Negotiations

[Elaine5715]

20 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Surely you jest.  So-called "Recommended shops" are only "recommended because they pay a promotional fee (i.e. bribe) to the cruise line or the third party company that holds the port shopping franchise.   In many cases the best deals will be at the shops NOT recommended such as with H. Stern (in Rio).   When the statement was made that "there is a sucker born every minute" it should have been specific to cruise line passengers who often leave their good judgement at home.  Do you actually think that the onboard recommendations are made for the cruiser's benefit?  

 

And what you call lying is simply "marketing" to those who earn their living convincing folks to buy things at far higher prices then their real value.

 

Hank 

As Judge Judy would say that is puffery and perfectly legit.  Pretty sure port shops are not in the business of making sure cruise passengers get deals.  

[brillohead]

17 minutes ago, c-boy said:

jeezus brillo lighten up. Take a long cruise on a slow boat and come back anew. 

As the saying goes, the truth hurts.  

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one stating that the OP should've known better.  

The fact of the matter is that jewelry stores EVERYWHERE are in the business of marking up their product.  I'm sure the jewelry stores in your area will have "half off" specials -- and they're still making a profit when selling at half off the "regular" price.  

It's not any different with cars, furniture, houses -- basically ANY high-end purchase is going to be priced at what the market will bear, not necessarily the value of the item in question.  For example, my home would cost almost ten times as much if it were located in California -- same size house, same materials, same amount of land.  But people in California will pay much more, so I would price it accordingly.  

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by brillohead
typo

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Surely you jest.  So-called "Recommended shops" are only "recommended because they pay a promotional fee (i.e. bribe) to the cruise line or the third party company that holds the port shopping franchise.   In many cases the best deals will be at the shops NOT recommended such as with H. Stern (in Rio).   When the statement was made that "there is a sucker born every minute" it should have been specific to cruise line passengers who often leave their good judgement at home.  Do you actually think that the onboard recommendations are made for the cruiser's benefit?  

 

And what you call lying is simply "marketing" to those who earn their living convincing folks to buy things at far higher prices then their real value.

 

Hank 

 

No, I was not jesting.  

 

Saying let the buyer beware is one thing, and as I previously stated, I think the OP was taken in by the sales pitch.   But as I’ve already tried to explain, IMO this goes beyond an exaggerated sales pitch.  It is an outright lie about the product. Trying to justify outright lies by saying everyone does it is a children’s argument.  Stand up for what is right.  

 

I do not think what you call onboard recommendations are solely for the customer's benefit. I also do not think the cruise line's marketing strategy should incorporate purposeful and explicit lies.  

 

I stick by my recommendation that the cruise line be contacted.  As I previously stated I’m not optimistic of the outcome, but they need to know.  If they are in any way a quality company, they will want to know.   Why you and others have a problem with that is beyond me.  

 

BTW, any of my sales force knows they would have been on the curb in a second had they made such an outright lie to a client.  

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, brillohead said:

As the saying goes, the truth hurts.  

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one stating that the OP should've known better.  

The fact of the matter is that jewelry stores EVERYWHERE are in the business of marking up their product.  I'm sure the jewelry stores in your area will have "half off" specials -- and they're still making a profit when selling at half off the "regular" price.  

It's not any different with cars, furniture, houses -- basically ANY high-end purchase is going to be priced at what the market will bear, not necessarily the value of the item in question.  For example, my home would cost almost ten times as much if it were located in California -- same size house, same materials, same amount of land.  But people in California will pay much more, so I would price it accordingly.  

 

 

Everything you say is right on, IMO. I think what is missing is that a material product misrepresentation was made.  At least that is how I took it.  Kind of like you were given the appraisal for the house you bought and found out afterwords they had lied and the real appraisal was only 1/2 of that.  

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Everything you say is right on, IMO. I think what is missing is that a material product misrepresentation was made.  At least that is how I took it.  Kind of like you were given the appraisal for the house you bought and found out afterwords they had lied and the real appraisal was only 1/2 of that.  

Of course, it is possible to lie by omission.  If you are selling your house would you augment any inspection report by adding problems which you know exist but were somehow missed by the inspector?

 

The rule, for at least a couple of thousand years: “Caveat emptor,”

[donaldsc]

44 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, it is possible to lie by omission.  If you are selling your house would you augment any inspection report by adding problems which you know exist but were somehow missed by the inspector?

 

The rule, for at least a couple of thousand years: “Caveat emptor,”

 

Actually I believe and any real estate agent or lawyer can comment on this that you are required by state law to disclose any defects that you are aware of.  I also believe that In California, the disclosure laws more strict.  In other words, with real estate lying by omission may not work.

 

DON

[leaveitallbehind]

29 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

Actually I believe and any real estate agent or lawyer can comment on this that you are required by state law to disclose any defects that you are aware of.  I also believe that In California, the disclosure laws more strict.  In other words, with real estate lying by omission may not work.

 

DON

 

That is the case in PA.  

[brillohead]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

No, I was not jesting.  

 

Saying let the buyer beware is one thing, and as I previously stated, I think the OP was taken in by the sales pitch.   But as I’ve already tried to explain, IMO this goes beyond an exaggerated sales pitch.  It is an outright lie about the product. Trying to justify outright lies by saying everyone does it is a children’s argument.  Stand up for what is right.  

 

I do not think what you call onboard recommendations are solely for the customer's benefit. I also do not think the cruise line's marketing strategy should incorporate purposeful and explicit lies.  

 

I stick by my recommendation that the cruise line be contacted.  As I previously stated I’m not optimistic of the outcome, but they need to know.  If they are in any way a quality company, they will want to know.   Why you and others have a problem with that is beyond me.  

 

BTW, any of my sales force knows they would have been on the curb in a second had they made such an outright lie to a client.  

I think the biggest factor is that we don't know the extent of the "exaggeration" and who it was that made the claims.  

The OP hasn't returned and is unlikely to at this point, so it's all conjecture at this point.  

We were told by the two jewelry company employees as well as the cruise employee that was present at the time of sale that the piece was worth twice as much as we were paying for it.   

 

Told that the piece was "worth" twice what they paid.... well, if someone somewhere has purchased it at that price, then yes -- it's "worth" that price.  If there was a passenger the previous week who paid that same price for the item, then it wasn't a lie to say that it was valued at that amount.

 

Now we believe that it is worth even less then we paid for it.

 

Believe....???? Sounds like the OP hasn't even had the piece appraised yet -- again, more conjecture.  

Unfortunately, with things like jewelry and art, the actual value or worth of the item is virtually entirely made up.  Ever go to an auction?  People get swept up in "the thrill of the chase" and pay more than they should all the time.  We used to see complaints here all the time about the "art" sold on cruise ships -- "we got home and it's not worth nearly as much as we paid!!!!"

 

Same with people buying a drink package... "Is the drink package worth it?"  That depends.... how much do you drink, and how much are you willing to pay? 

Same with people getting a suite instead of an inside... "Is a suite worth it?"  That depends on how much money you have to spend and how much the amenities of a suite mean to you personally.  Some people won't cruise in anything less than a suite, others would prefer to go on 5+ cruises in an inside instead of a single cruise in a suite.

 

The "worth" of an article of jewelry can fluctuate from one day to the next, based on the price of gold, the price of gems, and the whims of the market in general.  

 

 

[dsrdsrdsr]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:01 AM, HelloFriends said:

Yes, the jewelry company was endorsed by the cruise line.  We were told by the two jewelry company employees as well as the cruise employee that was present at the time of sale that the piece was worth twice as much as we were paying for it.  Unfortunately, we believed it.  Now we believe that it is worth even less then we paid for it.  The receipt was correct as well as the charge on the credit card.  Maybe we just were too gullible at the time.   

Jewellery is one of the things that is always worth less than you paid for it, unless you are a professional jeweller with your own shop.  Every time you leave a shop with jewellery, it is instantly worth perhaps half what you paid, because the part of your purchase that represents the jeweller's profit is instantly worthless and you can't get that back when you sell it.

 

If they told you that its resale value would twice what you paid, then you would have a clear case for a refund; if they said (or could claim to say) only that it would cost you twice that much to buy it in that store or elsewhere, then you will struggle.  

 

I would forget the credit card claim.  You made a deal to buy something and what you bought was what you agreed to buy; and the price you paid appears to be not wildly different from its worth.  I can't see a credit card company accepting liability for that. They certainly won't accept any liability for the profits you expected to make, but won't.

[HelloFriends]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. 
We were told specifically by the 2 store employees helping us as well as the cruise line employee present at the time that we were getting a good deal at 50% off of regular retail.
We have consulted with an independent appraiser per information from the back of the receipt.

We were mislead by all helping us with the sale, but what does regular retail mean anyway other then what the company wants to charge and what the consumer is willing to pay. 
We were not planning on making anything from the purchase other than personal enjoyment. It was just disappointing to learn that the employees made the sale price sound much better then it really was.  Without something in writing there is no proof unless the store videos transactions with sound. 
If we go on anymore cruises, we will enjoy the sights and take pictures for souvenirs and buy, if anything, consumables like rum cakes and small trinkets like Christmas ornaments.  Lol. Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

 

[brillohead]

33 minutes ago, HelloFriends said:

We were told specifically by the 2 store employees helping us as well as the cruise line employee present at the time that we were getting a good deal at 50% off of regular retail.

And that's where the misunderstanding occurred... "regular retail price" is always grossly inflated on jewelry, which is never actually "worth" that much money.  Like I said in an earlier post, jewelry stores regularly hold "half off" sales, and they're still making money at that price.

I'm glad you made your purchase for pleasure, and I hope that the piece provides happiness going forward.

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, brillohead said:

I think the biggest factor is that we don't know the extent of the "exaggeration" and who it was that made the claims.  

The OP hasn't returned and is unlikely to at this point, so it's all conjecture at this point.  

We were told by the two jewelry company employees as well as the cruise employee that was present at the time of sale that the piece was worth twice as much as we were paying for it.   

 

Told that the piece was "worth" twice what they paid.... well, if someone somewhere has purchased it at that price, then yes -- it's "worth" that price.  If there was a passenger the previous week who paid that same price for the item, then it wasn't a lie to say that it was valued at that amount.

 

Now we believe that it is worth even less then we paid for it.

 

Believe....???? Sounds like the OP hasn't even had the piece appraised yet -- again, more conjecture.  

Unfortunately, with things like jewelry and art, the actual value or worth of the item is virtually entirely made up.  Ever go to an auction?  People get swept up in "the thrill of the chase" and pay more than they should all the time.  We used to see complaints here all the time about the "art" sold on cruise ships -- "we got home and it's not worth nearly as much as we paid!!!!"

 

Same with people buying a drink package... "Is the drink package worth it?"  That depends.... how much do you drink, and how much are you willing to pay? 

Same with people getting a suite instead of an inside... "Is a suite worth it?"  That depends on how much money you have to spend and how much the amenities of a suite mean to you personally.  Some people won't cruise in anything less than a suite, others would prefer to go on 5+ cruises in an inside instead of a single cruise in a suite.

 

The "worth" of an article of jewelry can fluctuate from one day to the next, based on the price of gold, the price of gems, and the whims of the market in general.  

 

 

 

Well, I'm going to admit a fair amount of conjecture on my part!  

 

Anyway, I just don't like dishonesty or phony practices as you can probably tell.  😀

 

 

[ldubs]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:28 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, it is possible to lie by omission.  If you are selling your house would you augment any inspection report by adding problems which you know exist but were somehow missed by the inspector?

 

The rule, for at least a couple of thousand years: “Caveat emptor,”

 

Yep I would share relevant facts regarding a house I was selling (and have done so).  In fact that happens before the inspection report, at least for the house I sold 5 years ago.  As DonaldSC says, you can get in a lot of trouble by withholding information from a buyer, not to mention I'm just not wired that way.   

 

[pacruise804]

22 hours ago, HelloFriends said:

Thank you all for your comments and advice. 
We were told specifically by the 2 store employees helping us as well as the cruise line employee present at the time that we were getting a good deal at 50% off of regular retail.
We have consulted with an independent appraiser per information from the back of the receipt.

We were mislead by all helping us with the sale, but what does regular retail mean anyway other then what the company wants to charge and what the consumer is willing to pay. 
We were not planning on making anything from the purchase other than personal enjoyment. It was just disappointing to learn that the employees made the sale price sound much better then it really was.  Without something in writing there is no proof unless the store videos transactions with sound. 
If we go on anymore cruises, we will enjoy the sights and take pictures for souvenirs and buy, if anything, consumables like rum cakes and small trinkets like Christmas ornaments.  Lol. Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

 

 

It sounds like you have a good attitude and learned a valuable lesson for future cruise purchases.  The experience is similar (but on a much larger scale) to when I'm at the grocery store or other shopping and the cashier tells me how much I "saved."  I say thank you but always mentally shake my head a little because I didn't really save as much as they said since I wouldn't have paid that much to begin with (there's almost always a "sale").

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

[RocketMan275]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:55 AM, HelloFriends said:

Thank you all for your comments and advice. 
We were told specifically by the 2 store employees helping us as well as the cruise line employee present at the time that we were getting a good deal at 50% off of regular retail.

Would  you pay 'sticker price' for a new car just because the salesman told you it was worth at least that?

[sanger727]

On 11/24/2019 at 10:55 AM, HelloFriends said:

We were told specifically by the 2 store employees helping us as well as the cruise line employee present at the time that we were getting a good deal at 50% off of regular retail.

 

 

Yes, that "regular retail" line is the key. "regular retail" doesn't in any way equate to worth or value, simply a number the store makes up. Many many businesses and industries as a matter of practice artificially inflate the "retail" price so that they can constantly have sales. Cruise lines are some of the biggest perpetrators. Have you ever looked at their "brochure" rates. They are inflated higher than they have ever sold that cruise for so that you are always "saving". No one pays those rates. It's a big like paying MSRP on car. 

 

Now, if you purchased a diamond in a white gold setting and came home to find out it was cubic zirconia in silver, you would have a case for a refund.

Edited November 29, 2019 by sanger727

[SRF]

Bottom line, unless they put some form of guarantee of value in writing, enjoy your purchase.

 

 

[mayleeman]

The OP should consider the jewelry to be "worth" precisely what they paid for it. Appraised "value" represents something else. If the OP had an appraisal done of an item bought retail, it should almost always be for less than what they paid. 

 

Bottom line: No store will stay in business long if it has two employees serving a single customer while selling its inventory for less than its intrinsic value.

 

"You are getting a good deal" is so vague no one can rely on that type of statement as an expert assessment of value.

 

Many people (including me) worry too much about the possibility someone else got a better deal because we think maybe we did something "wrong" and could have done better. This fear can result in dissatisfaction over something you were thrilled with when you bought it (like cruises!). I have to remind myself of this constantly! Fortunately, the past two decades and the internet have made price transparency more available for cars and housing particularly, and online shopping for many retail products.

 

Jewelry remains an outlier because of the relative or apparent uniqueness of so many pieces. People just need to remember that falling in love with special items is what makes them special to begin with. Jewelry bought as an investment should be bought with cold, rational comparative shopping. Jewelry bought because you love it should be worn happily with nary a worry about its appraised value. My wife has a custom ring of her mothers that means the world to her, and while she would sell it at a high enough price, it would only be if she needed it for something hugely important (health care for grandkids, etc). 

 

Just enjoy the things you think are precious--just like your family, don't try to price everything or you will be disappointed!

Edited December 2, 2019 by mayleeman

[navybankerteacher]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:19 PM, donaldsc said:

 

Actually I believe and any real estate agent or lawyer can comment on this that you are required by state law to disclose any defects that you are aware of.  I also believe that In California, the disclosure laws more strict.  In other words, with real estate lying by omission may not work.

 

DON

My wife has been active in the local real estate market for many years and knows that CT, like many other states , has strict disclosure laws.  She is also aware that a number of home-owners will claim to not have been aware of problems — and it can be very difficult to prove otherwise.  She has often had to prod sellers to list problems - and has even, several times, had to insist that they list problems on the disclosure statement which she became aware of with just a routine look.  She has also refused to list houses  in cases where she had a strong feeling that the seller was being “forgetful” to the point of fraud.

 

The fact remains: failure to advise a customer of known defects/problems/incorrect valuations is a very common occurrence in virtually any kind of transaction.

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

My wife has been active in the local real estate market for many years and knows that CT, like many other states , has strict disclosure laws.  She is also aware that a number of home-owners will claim to not have been aware of problems — and it can be very difficult to prove otherwise.  She has often had to prod sellers to list problems - and has even, several times, had to insist that they list problems on the disclosure statement which she became aware of with just a routine look.  She has also refused to list houses  in cases where she had a strong feeling that the seller was being “forgetful” to the point of fraud.

 

The fact remains: failure to advise a customer of known defects/problems/incorrect valuations is a very common occurrence in virtually any kind of transaction.

 

My last RE transaction here in California, I received disclosure forms from the seller and the seller's real estate agent.  I assume that is the law, but if not it is still smart for the RE agent to cover themselves.  

 

One of those things I've often heard (and don't know if it is true)  is that on the east coast lawyers get involved in routine residential real estate transactions.  That doesn't happen out here.  

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

My last RE transaction here in California, I received disclosure forms from the seller and the seller's real estate agent.  I assume that is the law, but if not it is still smart for the RE agent to cover themselves.  

 

One of those things I've often heard (and don't know if it is true)  is that on the east coast lawyers get involved in routine residential real estate transactions.  That doesn't happen out here.  

It is standard for both buyers and sellers in New York and Connecticut to be represented by attorneys —- and, in CT at least, the buyer’s attorney conducts title search which (in most cases) satisfies  the mortgage lender, removing the need to purchase title insurance.