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Akumal

Passport Fail - Cruise Line Unforgiving

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2 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Is it "right" to pay someone for their error? If NCL is going to pay, then why would I, you, or anyone else ever buy insurance? What about the people that pay for insurance? Is it "right" that they pay for a policy to get reimbursed for a loss, yet someone else gets compensated when they don't have insurance? How would THAT be "right"?

 

Interesting in that both of your scenarios, the compensated customers were not bad mouthing the company involved in their quest for compensation (sometimes referred to as extortion).

 

How much do you want to bet that the OP didn't reach out to NCL by first admitting responsibility for the error and apologizing for not showing up when they were supposed to? Give NCL the opportunity to reward...don't DEMAND compensation when you are wrong.

 

With honey, you get more. (sometimes referred to as karma)

 

I don't think we really disagree that much.  My point is that a company like NCL has a duty to mitigate the risk to their customers of such mistakes.  If they can have a website that won't let you proceed with a purchase or booking unless you enter a credit card, they should easily be able to at least build in a pop up warning that the passport expiration dates that you input are invalid to book the cruise...nothing more, that at least prompts the consumer to read the material you pointed out or call NCL.  This is kind of bush league technology.

 

I'm not sure about the whole extortion thing...that's a pretty harsh accusation.  Maybe it does happen, but not sure if this is an example if that.  His post didn't seem overly accusatory and admitted blame...not a great way to extort money.

 

 

 

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At the risk of taking this done a lighter path...

 

I was thinking to myself, it's funny how NCL wouldn't comp this guy...say a $250 credit for future cruise (if story real)...yet they  up-charge $5 for steamed asparagus in one of their speciality restaurants.  Gotta sell a lot of asparagus to pay for that credit!  

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1 hour ago, GettotheSun said:

 

I don't think we really disagree that much.  My point is that a company like NCL has a duty to mitigate the risk to their customers of such mistakes.  If they can have a website that won't let you proceed with a purchase or booking unless you enter a credit card, they should easily be able to at least build in a pop up warning that the passport expiration dates that you input are invalid to book the cruise...nothing more, that at least prompts the consumer to read the material you pointed out or call NCL.  This is kind of bush league technology.

How would that system know what passport you hold? How would it know where you are domiciled? How would it know where you are traveling from? How would it know if your airline had special restrictions?
 

NCL did not deny the OP boarding, their airline did. As far as NCL is concerned the “OP’s dog ate their ticket and they no-showed for their cruise”. As far as I can tell, there was no reason for the airline to deny boarding. Unless someone in the OP’s group was not a US citizen. Certainly nothing in immigrations and Customs would preclude travel

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2 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

How would that system know what passport you hold? How would it know where you are domiciled? How would it know where you are traveling from? How would it know if your airline had special restrictions?
 

NCL did not deny the OP boarding, their airline did. As far as NCL is concerned the “OP’s dog ate their ticket and they no-showed for their cruise”. As far as I can tell, there was no reason for the airline to deny boarding. Unless someone in the OP’s group was not a US citizen. Certainly nothing in immigrations and Customs would preclude travel

 

 

Perhaps the experience is different for Canadians, but it asks us to confirm our nationality, passport #, and expiration date.  I'm asked for my home address.  It asks where I'm travelling from (exact airport).  It doesn't ask me if I want a kosher meal for the flight.

 

I'm pretty confident based on the vast amount of information that NCL asked me to input into THEIR system, they absolutely should flag to me if my passport is invalid for travel purposes according to their policy.

 

Wow...good luck attracting younger generations to cruising with this attitude.  Company has no culpability to prevent customers from booking a cruise their passport information clearly indicates...but we'll take your money!!!  Unbelievable.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

. As far as I can tell, there was no reason for the airline to deny boarding. Unless someone in the OP’s group was not a US citizen. Certainly nothing in immigrations and Customs would preclude travel

the Airline is responsible to insure that the passenger's documents are in order for the country they are traveling to. They are responsible to return the passenger to their country of origin and pay any fines that might be imposed by the foreign country. Therefore they must perform due diligence and deny boarding at the airport of origin. 

 

While I feel for the OP the responsibility lies solely on them for having the proper documentation for their travels. The first thing I look at when making travel plans are what kind of documents I will need to have. On my cruise through the Panama Canal next week the first thing I looked at a year ago when I booked the cruise were what would be required by airlines, cruise lines, etc. I also found that I would need to renew my passport prior to the cruise and did so.

 

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16 minutes ago, GettotheSun said:

 

 

Perhaps the experience is different for Canadians, but it asks us to confirm our nationality, passport #, and expiration date.  I'm asked for my home address.  It asks where I'm travelling from (exact airport).  It doesn't ask me if I want a kosher meal for the flight.

 

I'm pretty confident based on the vast amount of information that NCL asked me to input into THEIR system, they absolutely should flag to me if my passport is invalid for travel purposes according to their policy.

 

Wow...good luck attracting younger generations to cruising with this attitude.  Company has no culpability to prevent customers from booking a cruise their passport information clearly indicates...but we'll take your money!!!  Unbelievable.

 

 

 

 

The passport information is indeed shared with travelers by the airline and cruise companies. We have access to that information before arriving at the airport or cruise ship so there is no horrible surprise. Visa warnings and reminders are also provided to travelers.

 

This posting is a good reminder for us all to double check during the planning process to help reduce issues like this. 

 

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55 minutes ago, GettotheSun said:

 

I'm pretty confident based on the vast amount of information that NCL asked me to input into THEIR system, they absolutely should flag to me if my passport is invalid for travel purposes according to their policy.

 

 

 

And there is the issue...it isn't "their policy". Those policies are set by CBP in the US and their comparable agencies in the other countries that the cruise will visit. These are NOT cruise line policies. The cruise line has to comply with the law just like the passenger does.

 

Why not just blame the Passport Agency for not putting a warning right on the passport? Sheesh...it is always someone else's fault. Is there NOTHING where personal responsibility comes into play?

 

FWIW, this comes straight from the CPB website:

cbp.jpg.4aec8c072a510a4e504359e9c53905df.jpg

Note that (IN BOLD FONT) it says "Some countries require" and also "Some airlines will not allow". Countries and airlines. "Entry and exit requirements for the country or countries". Nothing at all about cruise lines.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GettotheSun said:

I'm pretty confident based on the vast amount of information that NCL asked me to input into THEIR system, they absolutely should flag to me if my passport is invalid for travel purposes according to their policy.

 

I think the question becomes 1) how much time and effort does it take to code this for every combination of itinerary, passenger nationality, etc., and then keep it updated to changing international requirements and 2) if there is an error in this process does NCL have any liability for providing an indication that someone is good to go?  

 

Right now, they spend no money and have the freedom to grant or refuse compensation at their sole discretion.  

 

A long time ago I worked on a project that included some aspects of what would be required to make a verification system work.  It took a lot of man hours, as some nations do not make information readily accessible or have very complex requirements regarding entry.  I doubt NCL would want to deal with it in house. 

 

There may be some third-parties that dig through all the intricacies and resell the information in a standardized format, but that costs a lot more than putting a few notes in the travel documents.  

 

That all said... it seems reasonable that some kind of flag could be made saying like "The data you have entered indicates your  passport expires less than six months from the last day of your cruise; please verify that your travel documents will meet the requirements..."  It is easy to code, leaves the responsibility entirely with the customer, but adds in an extra reminder for those that may be unaware.

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I'm pretty confident based on the vast amount of information that NCL asked me to input into THEIR system, they absolutely should flag to me if my passport is invalid for travel purposes according to their policy.

 

 

- I 100% agree. They could if they wanted to.

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1 hour ago, AL3XCruise said:

That all said... it seems reasonable that some kind of flag could be made saying like "The data you have entered indicates your  passport expires less than six months from the last day of your cruise; please verify that your travel documents will meet the requirements..."  It is easy to code, leaves the responsibility entirely with the customer, but adds in an extra reminder for those that may be unaware.

 

I analyze user interaction in software at my company. People don't read warnings. They "rage click" the close button very quickly. You could make everyone wait three minutes before they can dismiss a pop up, but you lose the connection (the consumer clicks to close the browser or tab, usually). And if you did that, everyone would complain the company thinks we're stupid and is holding us up while we're trying to book a cruise.

 

Besides, didn't the OP book with a TA? If so the OP didn't see the website warnings anyway. The OP wasn't online. The travel "professional" looked at his passport, and sold him a trip he couldn't take. The entity selling the trip to the consumer wasn't  NCL, the airline, the hotels or the country they are traveling to, it was the TA.

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11 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I didn't take the OP's post as trying to blame others.  He said he takes responsibility.  He was lamenting that NCL didn't offer him a future cruise credit and that he was out lots of money.  I didn't get the sense that he/she was blaming NCL for anything...just hoping they would be more sympathetic to the situation.  Maybe I just read it wrong.

 

Then NCL is the loser.  They end up with an unsold cabin.  Why should they take the hit when it is not their screw up?

Edited by ray98

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Every time a company has to stupid-proof something humanity just gets stupider.

Edited by RedwingHockeyFan

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If there is one thing I've learned over my 74 years it's poop happens in life and most of the time you don't see it coming.  I always buy the cancel for any reason insurance.

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9 hours ago, GettotheSun said:

Wow...good luck attracting younger generations to cruising with this attitude.

Because we're not teaching personal responsibility these days?

 

Responsibility lies with the traveler to ensure their documents are in order.  For most cruises you technically don't even need to enter passport info, as long as you can bring other documentation to prove citizenship.  One could have a passport that doesn't meet the requirements, not enter it in the system in advance, present it at the terminal and be denied boarding because it expires too close to the end of the cruise.

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2 hours ago, ray98 said:

 

Then NCL is the loser.  They end up with an unsold cabin.  Why should they take the hit when it is not their screw up?

Their cabin wasn't unsold.  The OP paid in full.

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8 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Their cabin wasn't unsold.  The OP paid in full.

right, but the OP was looking for a refund or a future credit, which would negate that

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8 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Their cabin wasn't unsold.  The OP paid in full.

If they gave him a cruise credit like was stated, it's the same as an unsold cabin.  

The OP needs to take responsibility for not being informed.  If you travel even once a year outside the US you should know the limits on your passport.  

 

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Just now, Dar & Bob said:

If they gave him a cruise credit like was stated, it's the same as an unsold cabin.  

The OP needs to take responsibility for not being informed.  If you travel even once a year outside the US you should know the limits on your passport.  

 

Agree.  OP isn't entitled to a refund.  

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On 1/13/2020 at 7:01 PM, Akumal said:

 

 

This experience has taught me to be more diligent about international travel documents well in advance.  But for lack of compassion and lousy customer service, Norwegian has lost all future business from our family and friends.

So they have lost your business, you won't have this issue again for 9+ years.  Do you think that any other cruise line would have given you a credit or refund?  I highly doubt it.

 

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A few things I wonder about.  First this happened in July and the OP is just now posting and complaining?  If he booked through a TA as he stated then the TA (a good TA) should have informed them about the passports and if he was unable to even board the plane why would he blame NCL, clearly the airline was the first to deny them boarding. 

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9 hours ago, SeaShark said:

FWIW, this comes straight from the CPB website: Note that (IN BOLD FONT) it says "Some countries require" and also "Some airlines will not allow". Countries and airlines. "Entry and exit requirements for the country or countries". Nothing at all about cruise lines.


NCL did not deny the OP boarding. As far as NCL is concerned, the OP no-showed for their cruise... for whatever reason. From the thread title, the OP expected NCL to refund their cruise because they missed their flight from San Francisco to the departure country... for what ever reason. 
 

There is nothing in US laws that would prevent the OP from traveling. The OP’s airline deny them boarding based on airline rules. 
 

As a traveler, you could research every country’s web site and NCL and never figure out that Cheapo Airlines has blanket rules on passport validity rules. 
 

One more lesson learned. Cheapo Airlines can establish any rule they want to minimize the chance of a foreign Government from citing them for illegally transporting a passenger across their border. 

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13 hours ago, SeaShark said:

What about insurance? The OP could have purchased insurance that reimbursed them 100%. Did they? Most likely not or they wouldn't be here complaining about poor customer service (which is a fancy way to say "they didn't just hand me money"). 

 

 

 

The OP did say they had insurance and I"m not surprised insurance didn't cover this situation. I'm not sure I've seen an insurance plan that will cover you 100% for your mistake. Typically they either offer "cancel for any reason" with 75% coverage or they offer 100% coverage for things that are outside of your control (illness, plan delays, work cancels scheduled vacation).... not you failed to secure required travel documentation

 

14 hours ago, GettotheSun said:

 

 

NCL should absolutely have at least an online warning / pop up to let clients know the passport info (expiration dates) is non compliant.  This is required info yet NCL doesn’t have any sort of warning?  Gee multi-million dollar company maybe something to consider to enhance your client experience?   Corporate accountability?  Nah.

 

 

 

 

The part that keeps getting glossed over here is the NCL did not deny the OP boarding. We don't know at this point if they would or wouldn't have. All we know that the airline denied them boarding. So really, shouldn't this be directed at the airline and not NCL?

Edited by sanger727

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8 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

So really, shouldn't this be directed at the airline and not NCL?

 

No...of course not. This has nothing to do with what happened and why. Besides...isn't the question "So really, shouldn't his be directed at the traveler and not the airline, cruise line, etc??"

 

The insurance company provided compensation.

The airline provided compensation.

The cruise line DENIED compensation.

 

That is what this is all about. Fault doesn't matter, law doesn't matter, responsibility doesn't matter...just had out the money. Get on a public forum and throw a tantrum until they pay. CRUISE. LINE. BAD. 

Edited by SeaShark

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So, my 2 cents:

 

Not everyone is a world traveler.  Not everyone goes on cruises multiple times a year.  The cruiseline and the airline should both indicate...not in the small print...about the individual's responsibility to check documentation requirements.

 

With that being said, reimbursements for "uninsured expenses" should just not be.  It dilutes the importance of insurance and personal responsibility.

 

OP was partially reimbursed or got credits.....just not from NCL.

 

Not NCLs fault.  If you want to blame anyone, blame the TA.  The TA is the representative and the go-between for the passenger and the cruiseline.  The TA has the ultimate responsibility to make sure the passenger not only knows where to board, but where to find all information for the trip.  The message should be made clear, in BIG BOLD LETTERS....that the passenger has that responsibility. 

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3 minutes ago, April42749 said:

So, my 2 cents:

 

Not everyone is a world traveler.  Not everyone goes on cruises multiple times a year.  The cruiseline and the airline should both indicate...not in the small print...about the individual's responsibility to check documentation requirements.

 

With that being said, reimbursements for "uninsured expenses" should just not be.  It dilutes the importance of insurance and personal responsibility.

 

OP was partially reimbursed or got credits.....just not from NCL.

 

Not NCLs fault.  If you want to blame anyone, blame the TA.  The TA is the representative and the go-between for the passenger and the cruiseline.  The TA has the ultimate responsibility to make sure the passenger not only knows where to board, but where to find all information for the trip.  The message should be made clear, in BIG BOLD LETTERS....that the passenger has that responsibility. 

 

As an FYI, it was already shown that the print was not "small"...in fact, it was the very first thing mentioned and it was done in BOLD FONT.

 

See posts 64, 71, and 82 in this very thread.

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