Child Suffered Due to Lack of Passports

[clo]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

On something of a tangent:  it would be interesting to know what percentage of cruisers carry any credit card debt.  They might claim that they do not owe on their cruises but on “necessities” - such as cars, or clothes, or electronics.  The fact is - if they carry any short term debt at all - their cruises (being unessential) ARE being paid for by that debt.

I notice those people don't tend to speak up at times like this 🙂

[Bizmark'sMom]

7 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Realtors often say, oh you can buy a much larger house, up to 35% of your income.

Had friends who used to ask, why are you driving that car, you could be driving a Mercedes.  

I get this all of the time.

Yes, I could afford a much nicer house. I'm happy with my paid-for 1990s modular in a good location. Yes, I could afford a much nicer car. I'm happy with my older Subaru that still runs with no issues. I do not carry credit card debt because I have robust "home repairs" and "veterinarian" savings accounts.  I'd like to retire fairly soon, and my big passion is travel, so I live way below my means and sock money away. It's all about choices.

[celoplyr]

I didn't read the whole thread but... if you don't have passports, you can get home from Mexico JUST FINE.  You don't need a passport to go through a land border.  You can get from Cozumel to Texas in like 30 hours of driving time, they have buses I'm sure.  

 

Although I think this mother only cared about doing things the way she wanted, not finding solutions so that this didn't get this bad!

[Bizmark'sMom]

9 hours ago, ducklite said:

The problem is that people think they are entitled to vacations--particularly the people who really shouldn't be taking them based on their finances.

Up until recently, my vacations involved road trips. Sleeping in a tent along the way and finding a cheap hotel at my destination.  It's what I could afford.  Now I own a small travel trailer and can fly and cruise, but that sure wasn't reality the first 43 years of my life.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

A major cause of the “Great Recession” of 2008/9 was the housing bubble - many people bought houses in the preceding years with essentially nothing down - the sub-prime mortgage market - actually encouraged by government to spur lending in less affluent communities - made the “dream of home ownership” an apparent reality.  These floating rate mortgages - initially low cost - lured buyers into obligations they could not afford. When interest rates spiked up, many owners defaulted - they had essentially no equity in the properties and when the mortgage debt exceeded the market value investors in pass-through bonds also suffered.  

 

Very many people live paycheck to paycheck - minimal (sometimes almost no) equity in their homes, huge car loans, minimal retirement savings, credit card debt which they have run up to rinance their techy toys - latest phones, fit-bit watches, and YES  cruises.

 

Of course they will avoid paying a bit over $100 each for passports - which in their rosy optimism they think they will never need.   

Liar loans....   lenders were required to accept undocumented documents for people who claimed they owned their own business to boost unserved demographics..  People bought houses in hopes of turning and burning.  They found smart buyers would not pay inflated prices on crappily rehabbed houses as suggested on tv shows and were stuck with houses they could not afford.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Two points, many who had those mortgages saw their homes as piggy banks and did multiple 'cash-out' refinances compounding the problem.

There's an report at Market Watch. that 1 in 5 people making over $100,000 are living "pay check" to "pay check".  Reminds me of my ex-wife who saw no issues with "floating" checks.

I worked at one company that paid monthly.  All highly paid engineers and scientists.  On payday, the parking lot contained many wives waiting to get the check and race to the bank before they bounced checks.

Also why those payday lenders are crowded around auto plants...  Folks are clearing 6 figures but need cash now...

A logical person might ask what activities require cash up front?  

[Elaine5715]

35 minutes ago, celoplyr said:

I didn't read the whole thread but... if you don't have passports, you can get home from Mexico JUST FINE.  You don't need a passport to go through a land border.  You can get from Cozumel to Texas in like 30 hours of driving time, they have buses I'm sure.  

 

Although I think this mother only cared about doing things the way she wanted, not finding solutions so that this didn't get this bad!

The buses aren't letting you on without cash up front

[mayleeman]

Wouldn't you just love it if you took out travel insurance, your kid develops a severe eye infection, and when you found out you can't fly home some internet poster says, hey, no problem, just take you kid on a 30 hour bus ride to the border?

 

Other helpful suggestions come to mind: she could build a raft, beg, find aluminum cans, make calls pretending to be the bank for a Nigerian prince...

[RocketMan275]

56 minutes ago, celoplyr said:

I didn't read the whole thread but... if you don't have passports, you can get home from Mexico JUST FINE.  You don't need a passport to go through a land border.  You can get from Cozumel to Texas in like 30 hours of driving time, they have buses I'm sure.  

 

Although I think this mother only cared about doing things the way she wanted, not finding solutions so that this didn't get this bad!

So, you think riding a bus through Mexico is a safe and attractive alternative.

You have heard of the Mexican Cartels, haven't you?

Driving a rental car wouldn't be much better.

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, celoplyr said:

I didn't read the whole thread but... if you don't have passports, you can get home from Mexico JUST FINE.  You don't need a passport to go through a land border.  You can get from Cozumel to Texas in like 30 hours of driving time, they have buses I'm sure.  

 

Although I think this mother only cared about doing things the way she wanted, not finding solutions so that this didn't get this bad!

You need more than your good looks and regular ID.  Legally.

[Mike981]

Per spending beyond their means.

I used to do a remote broadcast at a car dealership every Saturday. I was within earshot of the finance managers office. More than once I heard him try to talk people out of taking out another lease on a very expensive vehicle. He would break it down for them and often they would get irritated and stop him and say, "stop, we're going to take it."

[clo]

1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

Per spending beyond their means.

I used to do a remote broadcast at a car dealership every Saturday. I was within earshot of the finance managers office. More than once I heard him try to talk people out of taking out another lease on a very expensive vehicle. He would break it down for them and often they would get irritated and stop him and say, "stop, we're going to take it."

I think it was Suze Orman on the Oprah Winfrey Show a million years ago who said "if you lease a car it means you can't afford to buy that car." (Or something like that.) I suppose there are still business reasons to do it but not otherwise.

[capriccio]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

And one must also be very careful to understand the specific cruise line policy.  For example, Holland America requires all members of a family to have valid Passports, on closed loop cruises, if minors are only traveling with only 1 adult.  This is one of those obscure rules that can easily be missed by a cruiser. 

 

Princess has the same requirement for minors traveling with only one adult.  From their FAQs:

 

PASSPORT REQUIREMENT WHEN MINORS TRAVEL WITH ONE ADULT ON VOYAGES GOVERNED BY THE U.S. WESTERN HEMISPHERE TRAVEL INITIATIVE (includes travel within BERMUDA, CANADA, CARIBBEAN, HAWAII, MEXICO, UNITED STATES) When minors are traveling with only one adult 21 years of age or older, Princess requires that all guests must be in possession of a valid passport. We have implemented this requirement because we want to ensure that your party remains together should an emergency arise that requires one or more in your party to be disembarked in a non-U.S. port. We cannot guarantee that all members of your party will be allowed to disembark with just a WHTI-compliant document or birth certificate. Failure to present a valid passport for all guests traveling together will result in denial of boarding without refund of the cruise or cruisetour fare.

Edited February 15, 2020 by capriccio

[Underwatr]

8 hours ago, clo said:

 

Canada International Travel Information - Travel.gov - US ...

travel.state.gov › content › travel › international-travel › Canada

 

1.  

Jan 16, 2020 - Entry into Canada: Canadian law requires that all persons entering Canada carry both proof of citizenship and proof of identity. A valid U.S. passport, passport card, or NEXUS card satisfies these requirements for U.S. citizens. Children under 16 need only present proof of U.S. citizenship.

‎U.S.-Canada Relations · ‎Travel Advisory January 14 ...

Proof of citizenship could be a BC. Proof of identity could be a DL, particularly a Real ID.

[clo]

14 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

Proof of citizenship could be a BC. Proof of identity could be a DL, particularly a Real ID.

"Could be."

[Underwatr]

For example, those are the defined documents under the WHTI to prove citizenship and identity. If Canada meant a passport they would have stipulated a passport.

[sparks1093]

13 hours ago, ducklite said:

Other than what I've charged on the CSR this billing period, we have nothing on credit cards of any type (charges made on two other cards were paid the day they appeared online on the account).  We do not carry balances on cards and if an unexpected large purchase (new appliance or unexpected car repair for example) comes up, we take money out of the savings account for exactly those types of things to cover the cost.  For non-necessities (other than those planned in advance such as the annual vacation) we simply don't buy it if the money isn't in the checking account.

I doubt that you represent a typical traveler (that is not meant as an insult).

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Taking a cruise without a valid Passport is akin to playing Russian roulette.  One must be very careful to have the appropriate documents (we have seen several folks denied boarding because their Birth Certificates were not deemed appropriate.  And one must also be very careful to understand the specific cruise line policy.  For example, Holland America requires all members of a family to have valid Passports, on closed loop cruises, if minors are only traveling with only 1 adult.  This is one of those obscure rules that can easily be missed by a cruiser.  Other lines have their own rules so those not using Passports really need to do their homework.

 

We have witnessed, a few times, the reaction of folks denied boarding and it is quite sad.  Most recently we saw it happen on a MSC cruise we took last December where it appeared that the cruise line would not accept one child's  Birth Certificate.  Of course it meant that the entire family missed their cruise.  Prior to that we saw a family denied boarding on a Princess cruise going from NYC to Ft Lauderdale when a senior member of the group mistakenly thought she could cruise between 2 US Ports without a Passport.

 

Hank

What you say is true but it really isn't that difficult to make sure that one has the appropriate documents and of course one must know what the requirements are of the carrier. I recently read a thread where the passenger was insistent that his REAL ID compliant license was sufficient as a stand alone document. He was fortunate that there was someone at home that could fax his birth certificate to the port. People do make mistakes and do misunderstand, but that's on them. (And having a passport in and of itself doesn't prevent that, I've read threads where passports have been left at home, left behind in an airport or hotel, or where an expired passport was brought.) 

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, clo said:

I notice those people don't tend to speak up at times like this 🙂

Would you, knowing that you are going to be subject to a great deal of ridicule and derision?🤣

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, celoplyr said:

I didn't read the whole thread but... if you don't have passports, you can get home from Mexico JUST FINE.  You don't need a passport to go through a land border.  You can get from Cozumel to Texas in like 30 hours of driving time, they have buses I'm sure.  

 

Although I think this mother only cared about doing things the way she wanted, not finding solutions so that this didn't get this bad!

Actually I believe that you need a travel document issued by the Mexican government to do that. Had this been an emergency it is more likely than not that the authorities would have waived the passport requirement and they would have been allowed to fly back (although where they would have gotten the money for that is an open question).

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

You need more than your good looks and regular ID.  Legally.

Under ordinary circumstances yes, you do, but exceptions can be and are made. I live 8 miles from the land border with Canada and it happens once or twice a year- someone goes up to Canada and loses their documentation. They show up at the border without the required documents and are sent to secondary inspection. After they've been verified (a process that varies by individual and I've even heard of family being called to come to the border crossing) they are allowed entry. 

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, clo said:

"Could be."

Actually for 16 year old and below proof of citizenship to enter Canada is a birth certificate. On a school field trip a birth certificate is sufficient for up to 19 years old. 

[clo]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Would you, knowing that you are going to be subject to a great deal of ridicule and derision?🤣

Oh I know. But not even one to say "wow, I never thought about X. Thanks."

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Under ordinary circumstances yes, you do, but exceptions can be and are made. I live 8 miles from the land border with Canada and it happens once or twice a year- someone goes up to Canada and loses their documentation. They show up at the border without the required documents and are sent to secondary inspection. After they've been verified (a process that varies by individual and I've even heard of family being called to come to the border crossing) they are allowed entry. 

Those people entered Canada with a valid passport or other appropriate border identification.  They would not have admitted without it.  That is nowhere near the same  as not having the appropriate documentation already vetted.   

[Elaine5715]

12 hours ago, Underwatr said:

Proof of citizenship could be a BC. Proof of identity could be a DL, particularly a Real ID.