Get rid of the buffets already!...

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm guessing at least half of the rabid cruisers on these boards who can't wait to go back will be willing to pony up...

 

Too bad that posters on Cruise Critic are a very small percentage of the cruising public.  

It's unrealistic to think that in these economic times with historic unemployment that there will be sufficient numbers willing to pay extortionary prices.

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

In this scenario, sharing with others won't be an option, however. 

 

I don't know if that is really practical, but yes obviously not an option if sharing is no longer allowed.  Anyway, my point was finding a place in the Lido restnt has not been a real problem for us.   Sorry to hear it has been an issue for you on HAL and Princess.        

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

It's unrealistic to think that in these economic times with historic unemployment that there will be sufficient numbers willing to pay extortionary prices.

 

How is it extortion?  Extortion is defined as  the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. In nearly 50 years of cruising, I've never seen someone forced or threatened into booking a cruise. 

 

If you mean price gouging, they are not doing that either, so long as they would make no or only a small profit.

 

The bottom line is that no one's going to "prop up" cruise lines with a price subsidy or handouts. If they are to survive, they will have to charge accordingly. If they can't find a workable model, they will go out of business. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by cruisemom42

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Too bad that posters on Cruise Critic are a very small percentage of the cruising public.  

It's unrealistic to think that in these economic times with historic unemployment that there will be sufficient numbers willing to pay extortionary prices.

 

In reality are there even 100 active posters on this forum?  Of course that doesn't mean it isn't representative (or vice versa) of the cruising population.   

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's a recipe for bankruptcy.  No way a cruise line can make a profit at 50% capacity.  

Yes they can, if they only sell balcony cabins and above, and if necessary increase the prices by 50%.

Same principle applies to long haul flights. Sell the first  class and business class seats, and if there is no one in economy you will still make money. 

[ontheweb]

41 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

People will ignore rules they see as unnecessary.

But I was commenting on the employees. You would think that they would be instructed to follow the posted signs.

[clo]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm guessing at least half of the rabid cruisers on these boards who can't wait to go back will be willing to pony up...

 

And I bet you're right. And I bet that a fair number can't afford it but will do it anyway

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

How is it extortion?  Extortion is defined as  the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. In nearly 50 years of cruising, I've never seen someone forced or threatened into booking a cruise. 

 

If you mean price gouging, they are not doing that either, so long as they would make no or only a small profit.

 

The bottom line is that no one's going to "prop up" cruise lines with a price subsidy or handouts. If they are to survive, they will have to charge accordingly. If they can't find a workable model, they will go out of business. 

Extortion, price gouging, it doesn't matter what it's called, increasing prices beyond what is reasonable, especially in these economic times, will result in bankruptcy.

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

In reality are there even 100 active posters on this forum?  Of course that doesn't mean it isn't representative (or vice versa) of the cruising population.   

Posters in this forum, especially those with high post counts, can reasonably be considered cruise fanatics.  Very difficult to consider them representative of the rest of the population.

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, wowzz said:

Yes they can, if they only sell balcony cabins and above, and if necessary increase the prices by 50%.

Same principle applies to long haul flights. Sell the first  class and business class seats, and if there is no one in economy you will still make money. 

Very big "if".  Cruising is very price sensitive.  It's not clear that the lines can fill balcony/suites at twice the price.  

It's tempting to grasp at straws trying to figure out how cruising can be continued regardless of the perceptions.  If cruise lines could be profitable selling only balconies and suites, there would be no incentive to build ships with interior cabins.  Why spend the money when balcony/suites can be profitable.

 

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, ontheweb said:

But I was commenting on the employees. You would think that they would be instructed to follow the posted signs.

Employees are people too.  They will disregard 'silly' rules too.

People's actions are an indication of what they think about these rules.

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Very big "if".  Cruising is very price sensitive.  It's not clear that the lines can fill balcony/suites at twice the price.  

It's tempting to grasp at straws trying to figure out how cruising can be continued regardless of the perceptions.  If cruise lines could be profitable selling only balconies and suites, there would be no incentive to build ships with interior cabins.  Why spend the money when balcony/suites can be profitable.

 

Quite a few ships are built with no inside cabins - obviously the fares are higher, but the lines still make profit.

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Extortion, price gouging, it doesn't matter what it's called, increasing prices beyond what is reasonable, especially in these economic times, will result in bankruptcy.

 

As will operating without making a profit. 

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Quite a few ships are built with no inside cabins - obviously the fares are higher, but the lines still make profit.

Are you talking about mass market lines or luxury lines?

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

As will operating without making a profit. 

Certainly, reducing capacity by 50% and increasing prices by 50% will not produce a profit.

 

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Certainly, reducing capacity by 50% and increasing prices by 50% will not produce a profit.

 

 

Now we are just quibbling about opinions. 

 

Have you an alternate plan to propose?

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Are you talking about mass market lines or luxury lines?

Semi luxury lines, like Viking or Saga.

[Nic6318]

29 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Posters in this forum, especially those with high post counts, can reasonably be considered cruise fanatics.  Very difficult to consider them representative of the rest of the population.

 

Hi

Don't forget, some of us just don't have a life. 😄 Very often those post counts go up significantly, when certain changes occur in a persons life. We are not necessairly a representitive group, we are a group that has a particular interest and we like to be informed. Information, does save people time and money. We have learned that a little planning in advance always pay off. 

 

When I first started following this site, it was just because I saw a lot of useful information people were commenting on and the more specific your question the more specific the answer. After a while I was realizing, that I was able to actually help people with varying questions. Nothing more complicated than that. The knowledge would come not necessairly from cruising specifically but travel generally.

 

Look at those posts that have nothing to do with cruising. Like how do I get across town inexpesively, where to park, where to stay, eat. Answers to those questions are more likely to be accurate when a local reaches out to help. 

 

The fact that we also are expressnig opinions , hopes, wishes, dreams, makes it more like a social group, like a FB. Just another option for people looking for whatever. The guidelines set, are more than reasonable. Who wouldn't want to be a member of Cruise Critic? 😁

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Nic6318 said:

 

Hi

Don't forget, some of us just don't have a life. 😄 Very often those post counts go up significantly, when certain changes occur in a persons life. We are not necessairly a representitive group, we are a group that has a particular interest and we like to be informed. Information, does save people time and money. We have learned that a little planning in advance always pay off. 

 

When I first started following this site, it was just because I saw a lot of useful information people were commenting on and the more specific your question the more specific the answer. After a while I was realizing, that I was able to actually help people with varying questions. Nothing more complicated than that. The knowledge would come not necessairly from cruising specifically but travel generally.

 

Look at those posts that have nothing to do with cruising. Like how do I get across town inexpesively, where to park, where to stay, eat. Answers to those questions are more likely to be accurate when a local reaches out to help. 

 

The fact that we also are expressnig opinions , hopes, wishes, dreams, makes it more like a social group, like a FB. Just another option for people looking for whatever. The guidelines set, are more than reasonable. Who wouldn't want to be a member of Cruise Critic? 😁

People with a life might have other things to do.  But that's not the point which is whether the average person who does have a life outside of cruising would be willing to pay exorbitant prices? 

 

Too often, posters on cruise critic think they speak for the majority of people who may take one or two cruises in their life. Or, they become convinced they know more about running a cruise line than the professionals.

Edited June 1, 2020 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Semi luxury lines, like Viking or Saga.

As I thought.  Luxury lines can get away with charging luxury prices.  Who/how many will pay the price of a Viking cruise for a cruise on a giant floating buffet of the seas?

But, you maybe right.  The mass market lines might go away and only the Viking/Sagas will continue to cater to a very affluent cruising public.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Now we are just quibbling about opinions. 

 

Have you an alternate plan to propose?

I think the cruise lines will have a short period, two months or less, of socially distanced, reduced capacity, cruises and those lines will transition as quickly as possible to the way things were.

Social distancing, masks, 50% price increases are not a long term solution.   People have had about enough, they're ready to return to normal.  Their patience with these restrictions is limited.

Edited June 1, 2020 by RocketMan275

[Nic6318]

16 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

People with a life might have other things to do.  But that's not the point which is whether the average person who does have a life outside of cruising would be willing to pay exorbitant prices?  Too often, posters on cruise critic think they speak for the majority of people who may take one or two cruises in their life.

 

Hi

 

I think most of us understand that we speak for ourselves. Few people actually believe the more they say something, the more likely it is to be true. Even if you use capital letters. 

 

As far as exorbitant prices, it does depend on the person. There are always people who have more money than they need, for them, cost is secondary. Don't forget the travel industry existed before cruising did. There is lots of competition for your travel dollars. It's like anything else, if you don't have a choice, then you pay the going rate, or do without.

 

I believe prices of everything are going up, not just travel. When/if things get too expensive, people might choose to do or buy less of, or none of any given product, just as they always have. Some businesses will fail and others will replace them, again, as they always have. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Nic6318

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Employees are people too.  They will disregard 'silly' rules too.

People's actions are an indication of what they think about these rules.

But employees can be fired and are expected to follow the rules of their employers.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

As will operating without making a profit. 

They may be able to operate without a profit for a small time frame to allow cruising to start up again and have more potential customers feel that it is safe to do. And laying the ships up instead might very well be even less cost effective than a small not yet profitable start without the benefit of showing that cruising can be done again,

[RocketMan275]

58 minutes ago, Nic6318 said:

 

As far as exorbitant prices, it does depend on the person. There are always people who have more money than they need, for them, cost is secondary. Don't forget the travel industry existed before cruising did. There is lots of competition for your travel dollars. It's like anything else, if you don't have a choice, then you pay the going rate, or do without.

Cruises are something without much price elasticity.  People do have a choice.  Do you think the average person will choose to pay Seabourn prices for a cruise on Carnival?

 

My point is simply this.  The lines will not survive under the 'new normal'.   Things will have to return to the 'old normal' for the mass market lines to survive.

Edited June 1, 2020 by RocketMan275