Is Virgin Voyages a Potential "Threat" To Celebrity?

[SC_Floaters]

Virgin Cruises - Scarlet Lady

Maiden Voyage set for April 2020

 

Design and concept

 

Adults-only

On 31 October 2017, Branson and president and CEO of Virgin Voyages, Tom McAlpin, revealed that the company's first ship will be exclusive to adults only, requiring that all guests be ages 18 and over. McAlpin explained that this move was made to appeal largely to travel professionals within the more premium market looking for an "elevated" experience. Virgin Voyages Chief Commercial Officer Nirmal Saverimuttu also attributed the decision to the company's aim to target "people who would not typically consider a cruise holiday" and might be interested in a "cooler" and more "intimate" setting.

 

Offerings

On Scarlet Lady, Virgin Voyages bundles all passengers' fares as one price per cabin, as opposed to pricing each voyage per guest. Consequently, prices demand a higher premium than those of their competitors. In response, Virgin revealed that all fares will cover all dining charges, fitness classes, internet, and gratuities, among other offerings, but alcoholic beverages, retail, and shore excursions will still incur expenses.

 

The ship does not include any buffet or dining rooms, and instead, houses approximately 20 different dining and drinking establishments. Other venues include a multi-function theater and an onboard tattoo and body piercing parlor.

 

I do not believe they are making any attempt to compete with Royal, Carnival, Disney, Norwegian, Holland but will be a very specialized niche of their own…

[NMTraveller]

Too me this looks like somewhat of an Edge clone.

 

I could not find a Sky Lounge type area on the deck plans.  As a result I will sail neither.  Perhaps it is competition for the Edge.

 

S class is still better than Edge or Virgin.

[Lightngsvt]

5 hours ago, hcat said:

Thought I saw the  same topic / title awhile ago..

Wondering if this is new or a re do? Reads like a promo....

 

We have NO interest in Virgin .  EDGE Class with a few tweaks is a great direction for Celebrity!

Nope, this is a new post.  I wasn't aware of anyone else posting a similar topic.  And, this is definitely not a promo for Celebrity or Virgin.  I have no affiliation to either line, travel agency, etc.  I am a loyal Celebrity customer who is also going to give VV a try this fall.

 

To each their own, but I wasn't overly impressed with Edge when we sailed.  The decor was very nice, and so were the amenities, but I felt the design of the ship was to "inward facing" and not as open to the sea as it should be.  It felt more like a resort hotel than a cruise ship.  The Solstice class ships seems to incorporate the outdoors better, and the larger atriums with the glass elevators bring the ship together instead of creating a number of separate spaces.

[Lightngsvt]

5 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

You compared an Alaskan sailing to Caribbean sailing in terms of cost?

 

Pending on where one is traveling from, even, that is not a good compression IMO.

 

Even different port experiences for both regions.

 

bon voyage

Yes sir, I did.  The reason being the fare we are paying in Aqua for 7 days in Alaska is about the same as we have been paying for similar accommodations in the Caribbean.  And both are 2020 sailings.  Itineraries are apples and oranges, but in my specific case, prices are not.  This is cruise only, not considering airfare/hotel.

[Lightngsvt]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I see VV as a potential competitor for the premium under 40 age market to Viking Ocean, Azamara and Oceania not Celebrity. They are targeting  a younger demographic with less than 7 night cruises than the other premium lines. With only one ship and another on the way they do not offer much in the way of itineraries and seem to be more of a party ship for the elites. It looks more like the Sandal's crowd who want to cruise is their market.

 

If any cruise line is a  Celebrity competitor it is Viking Ocean with their smaller ships, long and varied itineraries and all inclusive cruises. A cabin on a Viking all deluxe suite type cabin is very competitive with the Edge Class cabins in AQ  and Suites Class when you count all that is included in the fare of VO. This why we are trying VO later this year. In two years VO will have a total of 8 ships sailing all over the world and most of their cruises are sold out a year in advance. Our Venice to Athens cruise in September was sold out by December 2018, we booked in October 2018 with one of the last Penthouse Veranda( PV1) cabins. Celebrity will always have their market and loyal customers but the Premium lines like VO will be an alternative for something not that much more in price and loaded with a lot more all inclusive amenities. When we booked our VO cruise we looked at an almost identical HAL cruise on the Veendam but when we added in all that was included in the VO cruise VS the Veendam suite with a veranda VO was actually less in cost.

 

Will VO become our cruise line of choice, I do not see that because we book a cruise more on itinerary than brand, that is why we are booked on the Infinity for next year. No other line had the Spain and Portugal itinerary that we wanted.

I've only sailed Azamara once, but being in our 40's I found we were the younger passengers onboard.  It was an superb experience and we plan to cruise Azamara again in the future.

 

I'd love to sail VO, but when I have checked I've found the prices to be much higher than Celebrity and more inline with Azamara, or even more expensive.  My assumption is VO is a "superior" product to Celebrity with smaller ships, more inclusions, more upscale, and more varied itineraries.  But I thought they were more of a Luxury line, compared with Celebrity being a Prmium line?

 

I guess I could have been more clear in my first post, by threat I did not mean that VV could/would lead to the demise of Celebrity.  I was thinking more in terms of stealing market share, or causing Celebrity to possibly change the way they do some things.

[Esprit]

2 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Sticking with Celebrity. Heard VV ships don’t have casinos. But even if that’s not true, VV still offers nothing appealing to us. We are 50 yo. 

No casinos is a plus point for us and even in our 60’s we are seriously considering becoming Virgin sailors.

[Lightngsvt]

1 hour ago, Essiesmom said:

We are far from the proposed demographic of VV.  However, we do love an adventure and if prices were to come down significantly or a bargain suddenly popped up, I would bite.  Tried MSC on a whim and liked it.  Trying to get as much mileage out of what life and health we have left.  EM

When I booked our 5-night on VV, I paid $1075/pp for a Central Sea Terrace cabin (+ taxes).  For a similar Caribbean sailing, though 7-nights, on X in Aqua it usually costs us between $1400-2000/pp.  Perhaps a Concierge cabin is more comparable?  I don't recall ever saying VV was less expensive than any mainstream line.  I just checked VV and the same cabin/sailing has gone up to $1400/pp for 5 nights.  I would think twice about paying almost $3k for 5 nights. 

 

For a more apples to apples comparison, a 5-night Caribbean on X in a Concierge cabin (April compared to September) is ~$900/pp with 3 perks.  So I agree, at current rates VV is much more expensive.

 

There is a chance I wont like VV after trying it, but I'm willing to take that chance.  Or, maybe it'll be exciting?  I've never been to a Hedonism/Sandals/etc resort, I dont have tattoos and have honestly enjoyed every X cruise we have been on, but that doesn't mean a new experience might not be fun!

[terrydtx]

9 minutes ago, Lightngsvt said:

I've only sailed Azamara once, but being in our 40's I found we were the younger passengers onboard.  It was an superb experience and we plan to cruise Azamara again in the future.

 

I'd love to sail VO, but when I have checked I've found the prices to be much higher than Celebrity and more inline with Azamara, or even more expensive.  My assumption is VO is a "superior" product to Celebrity with smaller ships, more inclusions, more upscale, and more varied itineraries.  But I thought they were more of a Luxury line, compared with Celebrity being a Prmium line?

 

I guess I could have been more clear in my first post, by threat I did not mean that VV could/would lead to the demise of Celebrity.  I was thinking more in terms of stealing market share, or causing Celebrity to possibly change the way they do some things.

If you compare Celebrity AQ and Sky Suites and  HAL's Vista , Signature or Neptune Suites then add in the value of what is included with VO you would find not much difference in price for similar itineraries. Our PV1 cabin on VO in September  cost $5995 per person, the Vista Suite on the Veendam for a similar cruise but  two days longer was $5400pp. The two extra days amount to sea days and in the Mediterranean I think a sea day is a waste of time. Even the Nieuw Statendam cruise which was similar but RT from Rome, was over $5400pp for SS with 2 sea days.  We have no sea days with our VO cruise and by the time we added in all the things included like shore excursions there was hardly any difference in price.

 

Cruise lines like VO, Oceania, Cunard and Azamara are considered Premium cruise lines while HAL and Celebrity are considered at the higher end of the mass cruise line market and the true Luxury cruise lines are Silversea, Regent,  Seabourn and Crystal.  Virgin will probably fall into more of a limited Premium category of cruise lines. I agree with your conclusion that VV will never be a threat to Celebrity but they will appeal to the few  younger  customer demographics the Premium and Luxury cruise lines have.

[terrydtx]

21 minutes ago, Esprit said:

No casinos is a plus point for us and even in our 60’s we are seriously considering becoming Virgin sailors.

Viking Ocean have no casinos and kids under 18 which is a plus for us.

[Lightngsvt]

49 minutes ago, Lightngsvt said:

Yes sir, I did.  The reason being the fare we are paying in Aqua for 7 days in Alaska is about the same as we have been paying for similar accommodations in the Caribbean.  And both are 2020 sailings.  Itineraries are apples and oranges, but in my specific case, prices are not.  This is cruise only, not considering airfare/hotel.

I am willing to admit when I am wrong.  I just looked at our booking and see the Alaskan sailing is closer to $2400/pp, 7 nights in Aqua with all 4 perks.  While this is a good deal, you are correct, it is more than a Caribbean sailing.

[Denny01]

I agree that Virgin isn’t a ‘threat’ to Celebrity, just another choice. What I personally find about when I’m looking for an experience on a new itinerary on a different cruise line, I can convince myself that the cost difference isn’t that much of a big deal and go for it......within reason!!

 

So I think I’ll be trying other lines, not because some luxury or all-inclusive pricing is close to my standard option, but because it has an itinerary I can’t get......ports that are not the regular ones, special itineraries into more exotic places and ‘stuff’ such as that.

 

 

Den

[hcat]

55 minutes ago, Lightngsvt said:

Nope, this is a new post.  I wasn't aware of anyone else posting a similar topic.  And, this is definitely not a promo for Celebrity or Virgin.  I have no affiliation to either line, travel agency, etc.  I am a loyal Celebrity customer who is also going to give VV a try this fall.

 

To each their own, but I wasn't overly impressed with Edge when we sailed.  The decor was very nice, and so were the amenities, but I felt the design of the ship was to "inward facing" and not as open to the sea as it should be.  It felt more like a resort hotel than a cruise ship.  The Solstice class ships seems to incorporate the outdoors better, and the larger atriums with the glass elevators bring the ship together instead of creating a number of separate spaces.

Interesting...so more folks must have an interest! But the posts were so in line...sorry!

 

The tatoo parlor is a turn off but hope you enjoy!

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, prim8keeper said:

I agree with @terrydtx that Viking Ocean is probably a bigger treat to X. However, at the same time their final payment requirement of 6 to 12 months out is a huge negative, especially when you work. A lot can happen in a year and even though the cancelation policy is similar to X, I would rather not have to get my money back should something change.

I agree the final payment is also a negative,  we are paying them  next week for our September cruise. When we booked in 2018 they had a 6 month payment deadline that changed to 12 months shortly after we booked. They do this I guess because they can since most of their popular cruises sell out a year or more in advance.

 

I think what is causing a lot of loyal mass market cruise customers to look at alternatives like VO and even VV is their nickels and dimeing every time you turn around. HAL is one of the worse at this and one of many reasons we left them after 10 years. We booked the Infinity for next year because our AQ booking included 3 perks, CBP, prepaid gratuities and $200 OBC so we will have eliminated most of the Nickle and dime expenses on that cruise. Plus Celebrity AQ has no much more in amenities than any HAL non suite cabin category.

Edited February 16, 2020 by terrydtx

[tde1969]

We were loyal Disney cruisers for 15 cruises and have been loyal Celebrity for the last 11 cruises.  We love Celebrity and enjoyed the Edge but didn't love it. When we left Disney it was because the prices kept sliding up and found Celebrity to be a comparable product in the quality of cruising they offered.  We may be the only one's but I feel like Celebrity has been sliding in service while the prices has been continued to increase. We are set for the inaugural sailing of the Scarlet Lady with VV.  I guess on April 1st, we will see what VV has to offer and I will report back.

[bEwAbG]

A version of this thread does pop up every so often.  At first, I think many people were intrigued by the idea of a new cruise line at the upper end of the market.  After they posted their first room renderings (much of it looking like dorm furniture) and announced the short, Caribbean-only itineraries, any interest that most people had seemed to vanish.  Branson has a history of offering unique experiences, so I won't dismiss them out of hand.  I am, however, taking a wait and see approach.  So far, nothing they have advertised has appealed to me, and I'm also in my 40s.  Very much agree with those who say it looks like a Vegas vibe, which to me is a no-go.

[Cruising89143]

I just looked at the deck plans on Virgin’s site for Scarlett Lady. They show a casino on board. 

[Baron Barracuda]

8 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I agree the final payment is also a negative,  we are paying them  next week for our September cruise. When we booked in 2018 they had a 6 month payment deadline that changed to 12 months shortly after we booked. They do this I guess because they can since most of their popular cruises sell out a year or more in advance.

After 25 years of cruising primarily with Royal and X we did our first VO sailing last year.  Really loved it, especially the food quality.  Only downside for us was entertainment, but can't expect broadway style productions on a 960 passenger ship.  After adjusting for inclusions felt pricing was competitive with X.  You can negotiate fp date with VO.  We did and they reduced it to 6 months.  

[terrydtx]

14 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

After 25 years of cruising primarily with Royal and X we did our first VO sailing last year.  Really loved it, especially the food quality.  Only downside for us was entertainment, but can't expect broadway style productions on a 960 passenger ship.  After adjusting for inclusions felt pricing was competitive with X.  You can negotiate fp date with VO.  We did and they reduced it to 6 months.  

My sister and Brother in-law who in 20 years  did nothing but X cruises did a VO 14 day China cruise in May of last year. They got upgraded from a PV1 cabin to and Explorer Suite when they checked in which was a $6000pp free upgrade. None of the bidding for an upgrade BS. They absolutely loved the food, service, lack of kids and casino, and no smoking policy. They are doing a Viking River cruise this year and may never do another X cruise again. They are the type of  loyal customer that Celerity is losing to VO, BTW they would never consider a VV cruise.

 

The lack of Broadway style productions is not a problem with us since HAL in the last couple of years had pretty much eliminated them too. If I want to see a good production I will do here at our home city.

Edited February 16, 2020 by terrydtx

[rimmit]

I do not see VV even remotely competing with the X crowd.   The marketing is totally different.  The itineraries not remotely the same.  Maybe 20-30 years from now as VV has some drift in its initial mission, but definitely not at this point in time.   They are just marketing to a completely different crowd and their initial press releases indicate that as well.

[Baron Barracuda]

3 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

My sister and Brother in-law who in 20 years  did nothing but X cruises did a VO 14 day China cruise in May of last year. They got upgraded from a PV1 cabin to and Explorer Suite when they checked in which was a $6000pp free upgrade. None of the bidding for an upgrade BS. They absolutely loved the food, service, lack of kids and casino, and no smoking policy. They are doing a Viking River cruise this year and may never do another X cruise again. They are the type of  loyal customer that Celerity is losing to VO, BTW they would never consider a VV cruise.

You don't even need to pay up for a suite on VO.  PV cabins which include free minibar with liquor are 338sf vs 330sf for a ss on Celebrity S class.

 

We're also booked on our first Viking river cruise this summer, 15 day Grand European Tour.

[terrydtx]

13 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

You don't even need to pay up for a suite on VO.  PV cabins which include free minibar with liquor are 338sf vs 330sf for a ss on Celebrity S class.

 

We're also booked on our first Viking river cruise this summer, 15 day Grand European Tour.

Free wine and beer with lunch and dinner too on VO. The Premium Beverage package with a $15 cap per drink or glass of wine is only $18pp per day which included the 15% gratuity. Almost  I glass of premium wine pays for the package each day. 

 

The 338 sqft is more than HAL Signature Suites with no amenities  and no free mini bar.

Edited February 16, 2020 by terrydtx

[Mike981]

I am confused by the comparison of X to VO. When I have checked prices VO is much more expensive. Yes they have some inclusions, but when I book X I have grats, CBP, WiFi and OBC. An inside room on VO for a Caribbean cruise the same time we are going on X is double the price. Maybe I'm not seeing everything...

[Alsmez]

I wouldn't say Virgin looks like direct competition for X but I am sure that some X cruisers, especially those of us on the younger side, will be interested. DH and I are early-mid 40s and absolutely plan to try out Virgin once their pricing and itineraries meet our needs. We have friends who will be on Scarlet Lady's inaugural sailing in a couple of months and we cannot wait to hear their impressions.

 

IMO, Virgin seems to be targeting the DINK (double income no kids) market rather than a specific age demographic, although I do think their customers will skew much younger than your average cruise line. It looks like a great atmosphere for us if we are cruising with friends and want to party a bit, whereas we would probably keep choosing X when sailing just the two of us and looking for a relaxing experience. Nice to have both options available! 

[Fouremco]

36 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

I am confused by the comparison of X to VO. When I have checked prices VO is much more expensive. Yes they have some inclusions, but when I book X I have grats, CBP, WiFi and OBC. An inside room on VO for a Caribbean cruise the same time we are going on X is double the price. Maybe I'm not seeing everything...

We have a C2 booked for March 2021, and the per person cost is $2000 CAD less than the price for one passenger in the least expensive VO cabin. Very similar itineraries, and while the VO cruise is 1 day longer, I couldn't justify the difference in price.

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

I am confused by the comparison of X to VO. When I have checked prices VO is much more expensive. Yes they have some inclusions, but when I book X I have grats, CBP, WiFi and OBC. An inside room on VO for a Caribbean cruise the same time we are going on X is double the price. Maybe I'm not seeing everything...

Were you comparing it to the Edge and Apex pricing?