Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[travelordie]

35 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

 

Therefore, effective Monday, March 16th, boarding will be denied to any person age 70 or older, at the time of embarkation, unless the guest provides written verification from a qualified treating physician that certifies the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel.

Azamara, like Celebrity, is a RCCL subsidiary.  On the Azamara site, reference is made to getting a form signed by "your physician" and there is no reference to a "qualified treating physician".  Celebrity, for no compelling reason, fails to mention that "your physician"  can sign.  Apparently when RCCL sent a directive from head office to Azamara and Celebrity, they left it up to the individual cruise lines to determine whether clients could use their own physicians or be forced to search for a random qualified treating physician.    It seems that either chaos or indecision reigns at RCCL as they have yet to act upon Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) removing their March 2020 proposal to require medical letters for seniors.

[Barcelona17]

There is a simple solution to this issue, however, there is a slight problem with it. We could all simply contact Celebrity and threaten to cancel our cruise if required to provide a Dr's certificate. The problem is: we will be competing with Celebrity as to who can cancel the cruise first.  As I think most of the cruises we are concerned with are going to be canceled one way or the other. If after the virus is contained and it seems safe to travel and Celebrity continues requiring a Dr's certificate, there will be plenty of cruise lines wanting our business and not requiring a Dr's certificate. And for those of you not required to get a Dr's certificate, you can enjoy all of the extra room and empty spaces on Celebrity ships. Win Win for everyone, except, of course, Celebrity. The big problem is for those of you taking FCC. Doesn't really seem like a good bet for anyone. Since we are finding out just how much leeway the cruise lines have to change offerings and adjust previous commitments, cash in hand seems much better than that 25% extra FCC.

[llawrence]

We are in that boat......when we accepted the FCC there was not the requirement of a doctors note....we would not have accepted  FCC if we had know about the note requirement, as we would have known that the possibility of being denied boarding would be present. 

[helen haywood]

 

38 minutes ago, travelordie said:

 It seems that either chaos or indecision reigns at RCCL as they have yet to act upon Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) removing their March 2020 proposal to require medical letters for seniors.

 

Can you tell me where you found this information?  I went to the CLIA's website but couldn't find anything except a form that the cruiser fills out themselves at the port.

[SHIP TRAVELER]

Just a little more controversial thinking on this topic.

 

1.Cruises lines under the Carnival umbrella are not requiring this medical release.  Many of them like HAL

and Cunard have an "older cruiser" profile.  They are members of the CLIA also but decided not

to adopt this early suggestion when cruise lines were trying to keep sailing in the beginning.

Why would Celebrity and RCL still have this requirement in the face of such competition.

 

2. My DH (a retired accountant) thinks Celebrity has finally found a way to insure a younger client base and fix the problem they have with the mushrooming group benefiting from perks under their loyalty program. There are more cruisers joining the Elite, Elite Plus and Zenith groups every day.  Many of these top levels of

loyalty are are over 70.  Many of us over 70 have at least some medical concerns.   Many Elites and

above do not buy the drink packages because we get enough free drinks during happy hour.  Many

of us do not buy Celebrity shore excursions for whatever reason.  Celebrity makes more money

from the younger demographic.  I hope he is wrong and that our loyalty means something but there it is.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by SHIP TRAVELER
spelling

[llawrence]

A very interesting take.....do hope it’s not true......

[travelordie]

52 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

 

 

Can you tell me where you found this information?  I went to the CLIA's website but couldn't find anything except a form that the cruiser fills out themselves at the port.

The information regarding the required physician's letter appeared on the CLIA website in mid-March.  It was removed sometime in early April.  Since it has been removed, there is no longer a link to the March version.

[Mark_T]

31 minutes ago, SHIP TRAVELER said:

2. My DH (a retired accountant) thinks Celebrity has finally found a way to insure a younger client base and fix the problem they have with the mushrooming group benefiting from perks under their loyalty program...

 

Now you just have to find a retired Sales & Marketing exec to explain where the replacement customers are going to come from... 🙂

 

I get the concern that they are giving away too much to an expanding group, but absent any evidence to suggest that there is significant unfulfilled demand from younger less 'elite' groups, it would not seem sensible to throw away all those seniors...

 

 

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

 

What about a challenge to an administrative regulation (CDC)   claiming that it was arbitrary and capricious...enacted without evidence of  the valid concerns cited above?  Almost a sure loser  but curious!

That discussion is a bridge to far for this site.

[drakes2]

2 hours ago, llawrence said:

We are in that boat......when we accepted the FCC there was not the requirement of a doctors note....we would not have accepted  FCC if we had know about the note requirement, as we would have known that the possibility of being denied boarding would be present. 

The same applies to me as I turn 70 end of summer. Although I dont plan on cruising this year i would still like to use my FCC before end of December 2021. I've been with my current physician since I was 32 and he's a real stickler as far as handing out medication unless absolutely necessary.  Can't see him signing the form. 

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

Now you just have to find a retired Sales & Marketing exec to explain where the replacement customers are going to come from... 🙂

 

I get the concern that they are giving away too much to an expanding group, but absent any evidence to suggest that there is significant unfulfilled demand from younger less 'elite' groups, it would not seem sensible to throw away all those seniors...

 

 

And where are the younger group going to come up with the funds to pay for all these cruises as many of them have lost their jobs and now struggling to make ends meet.  Retired seniors have worked long and hard to enjoy retirement income I know I have. 

[llawrence]

I talked to Melanie today at Celebrity resolutions....her take was a little different then Carins yesterday....if denied boarding we will just get FCC....but if Celebrity cancels a cruise we can apply for a refund even if we booked with FCC...knowing I will be denied boarding on our Nov cruise .....I was told to hold on to the booking and hope for cancellation....You figure🤪

[acesneights99]

We have 3 cruises with final payment due in 2 months. Since I do not qualify for a doctor's letter, that is three cruises that we will be canceling as the final payment date comes up.

 

So 3 deposits returned and 3 final payments not made.

 

Still waiting for refund from the two B2B Constellation cruises canceled in March.

 

Not making any new reservations until we can actually board the cruise. Finally made it to where we can cruise at will and that's 7 cruises a year gone. 

 

RCCL is going to be burning cash at a furious rate, and not getting new bookings until the letter requirement is discontinued.

 

With negative stockholders equity, I don't see current shareholders doing well, even though the stock has doubled off the lows.

[acesneights99]

8 hours ago, llawrence said:

I talked to Melanie today at Celebrity resolutions....her take was a little different then Carins yesterday....if denied boarding we will just get FCC....but if Celebrity cancels a cruise we can apply for a refund even if we booked with FCC...knowing I will be denied boarding on our Nov cruise .....I was told to hold on to the booking and hope for cancellation....You figure🤪

Refund is cash. FCC is an unsecured promise from RCCL which has maxed out its credit.

[marty1950]

Well I say good luck to Celebirty cruise line as well as Holland and Princess filling up their ships if they deny people over 70 to cruise without a doctors note. Seeing that these lines cater to mostly elderly cruisers.

[laslomas]

I have been in touch with Celebrity UK via Twitter concerning the ‘over 70 requirement’. My planned cruise is in October and I will have just turned 70 and my travelling companion will be 71. We both hope the cruise will go ahead but who knows what will happen over the next few months!!

 

I wrote: I know these are unprecedented times, and things are changing by the day, and I am desperately hoping my October cruise will go ahead as I have been looking forward to it for ages. But now I am worried that by being over 70 I will miss out.

The response from Celebrity UK was: At this time, for guests over the age of 70, we will need to see sight of a 'fit to travel' letter from a doctor or GP in order to allow embarkation. Should you wish to cancel your cruise, your sailing date currently falls under our standard conditions so you would cancel at loss of deposit and we would recommend you claim this back from your travel insurer.

 

My response to that was: Thanks, I think I will wait and see. I do not want to cancel, I really want to go on the cruise. Please send a link to the fit to travel letter. How close to sail date does this need to be signed? Surely, as Celebrity have moved the goalposts since making the booking the company should not keep a deposit of anyone that cannot get a letter signed. I have no severe chronic condition, but may struggle to get this extra requirement (due to the usual difficulty in getting access to a GP) that was not part of the requirement when I booked.

 

Celebrity UK response was: There is no specified period of time to obtain the letter before sailing. You would need to provide the letter at the pier at the time of boarding. We do not have a template letter to provide. I do hope we will be able to welcome you aboard. We are not able to return the deposit and would recommend you claim this through your insurance. You have until 13th August to cancel at loss of deposit.

 

To that I responded: If there is no template letter, how will I be sure that any letter I manage to get will be what is wanted. Does it just need to say "NAME is in my opinion fit to travel on a cruise in October 2020" would that be sufficient? You seem very keen that if I cannot meet the requirements of producing a letter at the pier that I should cancel and lose my deposit. I do have insurance but do not think the insurers should have to cover the fact that Celebrity have changed the conditions since I made the booking, and would they pay out under those conditions anyway???. This is a bit of a minefield.

 

I am still waiting for further clarification on this. But basically they say: A letter is needed, but no guidance on what it should say. No specified time frame for this. If I cancel due to this NEW requirement I will lose my deposit.

[yorky]

15 minutes ago, laslomas said:

I have been in touch with Celebrity UK via Twitter concerning the ‘over 70 requirement’. My planned cruise is in October and I will have just turned 70 and my travelling companion will be 71. We both hope the cruise will go ahead but who knows what will happen over the next few months!!

 

I wrote: I know these are unprecedented times, and things are changing by the day, and I am desperately hoping my October cruise will go ahead as I have been looking forward to it for ages. But now I am worried that by being over 70 I will miss out.

The response from Celebrity UK was: At this time, for guests over the age of 70, we will need to see sight of a 'fit to travel' letter from a doctor or GP in order to allow embarkation. Should you wish to cancel your cruise, your sailing date currently falls under our standard conditions so you would cancel at loss of deposit and we would recommend you claim this back from your travel insurer.

 

My response to that was: Thanks, I think I will wait and see. I do not want to cancel, I really want to go on the cruise. Please send a link to the fit to travel letter. How close to sail date does this need to be signed? Surely, as Celebrity have moved the goalposts since making the booking the company should not keep a deposit of anyone that cannot get a letter signed. I have no severe chronic condition, but may struggle to get this extra requirement (due to the usual difficulty in getting access to a GP) that was not part of the requirement when I booked.

 

Celebrity UK response was: There is no specified period of time to obtain the letter before sailing. You would need to provide the letter at the pier at the time of boarding. We do not have a template letter to provide. I do hope we will be able to welcome you aboard. We are not able to return the deposit and would recommend you claim this through your insurance. You have until 13th August to cancel at loss of deposit.

 

To that I responded: If there is no template letter, how will I be sure that any letter I manage to get will be what is wanted. Does it just need to say "NAME is in my opinion fit to travel on a cruise in October 2020" would that be sufficient? You seem very keen that if I cannot meet the requirements of producing a letter at the pier that I should cancel and lose my deposit. I do have insurance but do not think the insurers should have to cover the fact that Celebrity have changed the conditions since I made the booking, and would they pay out under those conditions anyway???. This is a bit of a minefield.

 

I am still waiting for further clarification on this. But basically they say: A letter is needed, but no guidance on what it should say. No specified time frame for this. If I cancel due to this NEW requirement I will lose my deposit.

Personally I feel that Celebrity are being very unfair here. As you say they have changed the goalposts and as such could be denying you a product that you have partly paid for. Given this I feel you have every right to a return of your money. Celebrity have dropped the ball on this one.

[travelordie]

17 minutes ago, laslomas said:

 But basically they say: A letter is needed, but no guidance on what it should say. No specified time frame for this. If I cancel due to this NEW requirement I will lose my deposit.

Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean, all subsidiaries of RCCL, are now the only cruise lines requiring a physician's letter for those 70 and older.  The required template letter appears on both the Azamara and Royal Caribbean websites.  The template letter on the Azamara site is identical to the one on the Royal Caribbean site which suggests that they both received it from RCCL.   It sounds like RCCL either failed to send the template letter on to Celebrity, or Celebrity is incompetent and mismanaged.

 

I have a cruise booked with Azamara and have accepted that I will forfeit the deposit since my physician won't sign it.  I have not yet cancelled in case RCCL decides it is not in their best interests to engage in blatant age discrimination before my full payment is due.

[laslomas]

I have just received a further Twitter response from Celebrity UK. This is it:

 

Hi,

I stand corrected regarding the fit to fly letter, you can find a copy online here - https://celebritycruises.com/content/dam/celebrity/pdf/physician-fit-to-sail-form.pdf…

 

I understand what you say about the policy, however, we have had to update our policies as a result of an everchanging circumstance that is beyond our control. Thanks,

 

I suppose having an agreed letter is something and as it requires a doctors registration number it looks a bit more official than the one I have seen previously. But still no movement on loss of deposit if cancelled. I expect the cruise will be cancelled by Celebrity anyway so none of this will probably matter. Keeping my fingers crossed I will either get a cruise or my money back.  

Edited April 25, 2020 by laslomas

[yorky]

13 minutes ago, laslomas said:

I have just received a further Twitter response from Celebrity UK. This is it:

 

Hi,

I stand corrected regarding the fit to fly letter, you can find a copy online here - https://celebritycruises.com/content/dam/celebrity/pdf/physician-fit-to-sail-form.pdf…

 

I understand what you say about the policy, however, we have had to update our policies as a result of an everchanging circumstance that is beyond our control. Thanks,

 

I suppose having an agreed letter is something and as it requires a doctors registration number it looks a bit more official than the one I have seen previously. But still no movement on loss of deposit if cancelled. I expect the cruise will be cancelled by Celebrity anyway so none of this will probably matter. Keeping my fingers crossed I will either get a cruise or my money back.  

Covid 19 is certainly beyond their control, but a little unfair to state because of this they were forced to change their policy and as such are not responsible for the change and have no need to refund your deposit.

[drakes2]

11 hours ago, acesneights99 said:

RCCL is going to be burning cash at a furious rate, and not getting new bookings until the letter requirement is discontinued.

 

I spoke to an agent at Celebrity a couple days ago who said the letter is in effect until September 1st. One thing for sure is no one has needed it so far.  

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, SHIP TRAVELER said:

Just a little more controversial thinking on this topic.

 

1.Cruises lines under the Carnival umbrella are not requiring this medical release.  Many of them like HAL

and Cunard have an "older cruiser" profile.  They are members of the CLIA also but decided not

to adopt this early suggestion when cruise lines were trying to keep sailing in the beginning.

Why would Celebrity and RCL still have this requirement in the face of such competition.

 

2. My DH (a retired accountant) thinks Celebrity has finally found a way to insure a younger client base and fix the problem they have with the mushrooming group benefiting from perks under their loyalty program. There are more cruisers joining the Elite, Elite Plus and Zenith groups every day.  Many of these top levels of

loyalty are are over 70.  Many of us over 70 have at least some medical concerns.   Many Elites and

above do not buy the drink packages because we get enough free drinks during happy hour.  Many

of us do not buy Celebrity shore excursions for whatever reason.  Celebrity makes more money

from the younger demographic.  I hope he is wrong and that our loyalty means something but there it is.

 

I really do not think this is generally true if you look at the make up of passengers on most cruises on most of their ships..

[drakes2]

10 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Many

of us do not buy Celebrity shore excursions for whatever reason. 

The reason why we're not buying Celebrity shore excursions is 1. The older demographic has seen all or most of the islands at least that's true in the Caribbean and 2. Some of us just enjoy staying on the ship and relaxing while others are out in the ports.  I dont agree that the under 70 guests are the ones spending money on drink packages, casinos etc. If they continue with the fit to travel policy they just won't fill their ships. I can afford to cruise 4 plus times per year if I choose to do so. Most in the 30 to 50 age group cannot. 

[helen haywood]

I disagree that Celebrity makes more money from the younger demographic (but I know that's Celebrity's wet dream.)   For one thing the retired (over 70) group generally takes several cruises a year as opposed to a younger demographic.  

[drakes2]

23 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

I disagree that Celebrity makes more money from the younger demographic (but I know that's Celebrity's wet dream.)   For one thing the retired (over 70) group generally takes several cruises a year as opposed to a younger demographic.  

I usually do 2 or 3 cruises a year, a Caribbean resort with my DH who no longer cruises and a trip to Amsterdam every summer to visit my son and family. My outlook on squirreling my money away has changed due to this pandemic.