Deposit refund inflexibility

[mpk]

53 minutes ago, derfp said:

I experienced a similar situation this morning with a call to C&A.  Originally booked next cruise in April 2019 for an Indy cruise in nov 2020.  Paid the $200 deposit and signed the agreement acknowledging the non refundable  deposit and subject to $100 pp penalty if cruise cancelled/changed.  In October I paid an additional $900 toward my final COD.  On March 23, last month, I cancelled the cruise and asked for full refund of $900, knowing my deposit would be forfeited.  During the call I was told I would only receive $600 as deposit in normally $500.00 and therefore I would forfeit the full deposit.  I pointed out that the agreement I signed did not reference “normal $500 deposit”.. after much discussion and asking to speak with supervisor they agreed to reimburse me the $900.  After 30 days, no refund, hence my call today.  First they told me refund was processed on April 10.  I stated I had not received refund, I checked with bank (cap 1) this morning.  Then they told me funds were released on April 19... for 2 different amounts, totaling $600.  Similar delay tactic I’ve here on boards.  I pointed out that once bank receives funds it does not take more than a day to show up as “ pending” credit.  They again referenced the $500.00 original amount for deposit.  Needless to say we had another discussion that escalated with supervisor intervention...again I felt the delay, deflect approach.  I immediately contacted CAP 1 and initiated a dispute claim.  The bank rep noted that that have been processing a lot of similar claims.  The whole process may take up to 90 days but I will not accept RCCL ignoring the realities of their own policies and their attempt to keep my money.    After 18 cruises with RCCL there will be no more.

thanks for letting me vent.

 

Oh great.  One of my upcoming cruises this summer is a reduced NR deposit booking.  I'm prepared to lose that reduced amount, not an elevated "normal" deposit amount.

[RosieRoo]

57 minutes ago, cruisegirl1 said:

I don’t think your diamond status has any bearing on Royal Caribbean’s policy regarding deposits.   
 

m

I thought the same thing. Why do people have to mention their status?

[Ourusualbeach]

Interestingly enough this is all covered in the fine print. 

 

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/NextCruise/17057524_NextCruise_ShipTour_Flyer_Final.pdf

 

 

If additional payments have been made on the NDN reduced deposit booking fulfilling the standard minimum required deposit and the booking is cancelled prior to the final payment due date, an FCC will be issued for the minimum deposit less the $100 per person service fee in countries where FCCs are offered.1 For NDN Grand Suite and above Bookings, Royal Caribbean will issue an FCC to the guest named on the cancelled NRD Booking in countries where FCCs are offered. The FCC will expire 12 months after it was issued and shall be issued in an amount equal to the nonrefundable deposit paid minus a $100 per person service fee. 

[KsucAts]

47 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Biker,

I have always been a “pay it off early” guy, but after this I am changing my tune and agreeing with you 1000%!

 

Same here, although our June cruise (which still hasn't been cancelled), I might not have.  I paid it off if November to quickly qualify for a large signup bonus for a new credit card.  I needed to spend $3,000 in the first 60 days, so that was an easy way for me to knock that out.  

[NancyIL]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

Threads like this should be bookmarked as a prime example why folks should NOT pay anything above deposit until final payment, regardless of how psychologically satisfying it might be.

 

I was trying to maximize our Hilton Honors points by charging things to our Hilton credit card  - including our b2b cruises on Explorer in the fall. I paid off both cruises plus prepaid gratuities in February, before any cruises had been canceled. After our Brilliance TA was cancelled and we awaited a refund -  I decided it wasn't a good idea to leave more money on RCI's table than necessary. I asked my travel agent to reverse the final payments - leaving only the deposits intact.  That was on April 5, and our AMEX account was credited on April 20 - whew!

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, cruisegirl1 said:

I don’t think your diamond status has any bearing on Royal Caribbean’s policy regarding deposits.   
 

m

Yep. I don’t get what it matters. 

[derfp]

37 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Interestingly enough this is all covered in the fine print. 

 

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/NextCruise/17057524_NextCruise_ShipTour_Flyer_Final.pdf

 

 

If additional payments have been made on the NDN reduced deposit booking fulfilling the standard minimum required deposit and the booking is cancelled prior to the final payment due date, an FCC will be issued for the minimum deposit less the $100 per person service fee in countries where FCCs are offered.1 For NDN Grand Suite and above Bookings, Royal Caribbean will issue an FCC to the guest named on the cancelled NRD Booking in countries where FCCs are offered. The FCC will expire 12 months after it was issued and shall be issued in an amount equal to the nonrefundable deposit paid minus a $100 per person service fee. 

I am not a lawyer , but I am hard pressed to see where the disclosure identifies a normal/standard deposit amount of $500.  The only reference to a deposit amount is $100.00.  These are the points I raised when speaking with RCCL when they tried to tell me I was subject to a $500 deposit. But I now agree, when you book on board do not make any additional payments until final payment.  

[bouhunter]

As if they aren't going to lose enough future customers via fear, economic distress, etc etc etc.  Real smart to scam more money from refunds in this underhanded way and lose another percentage of their customer base.

[Ourusualbeach]

16 minutes ago, derfp said:

I am not a lawyer , but I am hard pressed to see where the disclosure identifies a normal/standard deposit amount of $500.  The only reference to a deposit amount is $100.00.  These are the points I raised when speaking with RCCL when they tried to tell me I was subject to a $500 deposit. But I now agree, when you book on board do not make any additional payments until final payment.  

It mentions the standard deposit, that can be found in a separate policy. 

[MoniMommy]

3 hours ago, derfp said:

I experienced a similar situation this morning with a call to C&A.  Originally booked next cruise in April 2019 for an Indy cruise in nov 2020.  Paid the $200 deposit and signed the agreement acknowledging the non refundable  deposit and subject to $100 pp penalty if cruise cancelled/changed.  In October I paid an additional $900 toward my final COD.  On March 23, last month, I cancelled the cruise and asked for full refund of $900, knowing my deposit would be forfeited.  During the call I was told I would only receive $600 as deposit in normally $500.00 and therefore I would forfeit the full deposit.  I pointed out that the agreement I signed did not reference “normal $500 deposit”.. after much discussion and asking to speak with supervisor they agreed to reimburse me the $900.  After 30 days, no refund, hence my call today.  First they told me refund was processed on April 10.  I stated I had not received refund, I checked with bank (cap 1) this morning.  Then they told me funds were released on April 19... for 2 different amounts, totaling $600.  Similar delay tactic I’ve here on boards.  I pointed out that once bank receives funds it does not take more than a day to show up as “ pending” credit.  They again referenced the $500.00 original amount for deposit.  Needless to say we had another discussion that escalated with supervisor intervention...again I felt the delay, deflect approach.  I immediately contacted CAP 1 and initiated a dispute claim.  The bank rep noted that that have been processing a lot of similar claims.  The whole process may take up to 90 days but I will not accept RCCL ignoring the realities of their own policies and their attempt to keep my money.    After 18 cruises with RCCL there will be no more.

thanks for letting me vent.

I'm glad you shared this experience. So many defend Royal and cruise lines by saying you should have read the terms. In this case they are changing the terms. The terms said that the $200 was non needfor. They want to change it now and claim its $500. Do you still have a copy if what you originally signed?

[swooldri]

3 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

At current interest rates, that would be pennies.

 

That's not the reason not to pay your balance early.

Do not disagree.  Interest is not the point. 

The point is that you would  have control over your  money not RCI.  True?  

JMOH. (and you know what they say about opinions)

Take Care.

[Aggravation]

3 hours ago, RosieRoo said:

I thought the same thing. Why do people have to mention their status?

I can’t speak specifically to cruise lines, but when talking with major travel companies such as an airline your history Is right in front of them - ticket class usually booked, options purchased, frequency of travel etc, so whether you’re booking a flight or seeking a concession, the decision can be based on your value as a customer - and yes, you are definitely ranked.  
 

Cruise lines aren’t known for their mastery of IT , but airlines systems are even more convoluted. If they can figure it out, Royal certainly can - and almost certainly does. When the OP mentioned their Diamond level it can be reasonably assumed that Royal was well aware - and just didn’t care. It’s very relevant that he was a loyal customer - and that it counted for nothing. 
 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Aggravation
Clarification

[derfp]

1 hour ago, MoniMommy said:

I'm glad you shared this experience. So many defend Royal and cruise lines by saying you should have read the terms. In this case they are changing the terms. The terms said that the $200 was non needfor. They want to change it now and claim its $500. Do you still have a copy if what you originally signed?

Yes I do.  Agreement/acknowledgement signed by me and on board next cruise rep.  Again no reference to to regular/ normal deposit just the $100 pp deposit.  Will be more than happy to provide to cap 1 dispute process.  As I tried to stress....this is not the way a customer dependent organization should act, particularly when they heavily depend on repeat business.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, MoniMommy said:

I'm glad you shared this experience. So many defend Royal and cruise lines by saying you should have read the terms. In this case they are changing the terms. The terms said that the $200 was non needfor. They want to change it now and claim its $500. Do you still have a copy if what you originally signed?

While I think that it sucks they are not changing the terms.  This is in the terms and conditions of the Next cruise booking. 

 

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/NextCruise/17057524_NextCruise_ShipTour_Flyer_Final.pdf

 

If additional payments have been made on the NDN reduced deposit booking fulfilling the standard minimum required deposit and the booking is cancelled prior to the final payment due date, an FCC will be issued for the minimum deposit less the $100 per person service fee in countries where FCCs are offered.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[MoniMommy]

3 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

While I think that it sucks they are not changing the terms.  This is in the terms and conditions of the Next cruise booking. 

 

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/NextCruise/17057524_NextCruise_ShipTour_Flyer_Final.pdf

 

If additional payments have been made on the NDN reduced deposit booking fulfilling the standard minimum required deposit and the booking is cancelled prior to the final payment due date, an FCC will be issued for the minimum deposit less the $100 per person service fee in countries where FCCs are offered.

I think @derfp is saying that what was signed on the ship does not contain these terms. I would think that what derfp signed overrides the policy on the website unless what derfp signed said refer to website x for full terms and conditions.

[Ourusualbeach]

2 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

I think @derfp is saying that what was signed on the ship does not contain these terms. I would think that what derfp signed overrides the policy on the website unless what derfp signed said refer to website x for full terms and conditions.

When you book a cruise do you read and sign the full terms and conditions.  It’s really no different.  That sheet that is posted in the PDF I have seen on-board with the terms on it. 

 

The main thing is they have not changed.  People may not read the full terms. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[derfp]

6 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

While I think that it sucks they are not changing the terms.  This is in the terms and conditions of the Next cruise booking. 

 

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/NextCruise/17057524_NextCruise_ShipTour_Flyer_Final.pdf

 

If additional payments have been made on the NDN reduced deposit booking fulfilling the standard minimum required deposit and the booking is cancelled prior to the final payment due date, an FCC will be issued for the minimum deposit less the $100 per person service fee in countries where FCCs are offered.

I hear you...but they never spelled out in the agreement what the the standard minimum deposit is...it is vague and if it went to an arbitration type decision the consumer would win.  I was in the auto business and whenever there was a customer complaint and was presented to a legal interpretation,  generally customer wins.  Same typically happens when there is an employment/management dispute or claim, the employee generally wins.   
Not to beat a dead horse but RCCL will need their loyal customers if they are to survive this covid mess.  They certainly seem to be oblivious to sensible customer Retention efforts.  
 

[Ourusualbeach]

15 minutes ago, derfp said:

I hear you...but they never spelled out in the agreement what the the standard minimum deposit is...it is vague and if it went to an arbitration type decision the consumer would win.  I was in the auto business and whenever there was a customer complaint and was presented to a legal interpretation,  generally customer wins.  Same typically happens when there is an employment/management dispute or claim, the employee generally wins.   
Not to beat a dead horse but RCCL will need their loyal customers if they are to survive this covid mess.  They certainly seem to be oblivious to sensible customer Retention efforts.  
 

Try taking this higher by appealing to the executive office.

 

mbayley@rccl.com

[derfp]

2 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Try taking this higher by appealing to the executive office.

 

mbayley@rccl.com

Thanks.  I appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions.  I just hope that this discussion will help others in the same situation and others hopefully will not make additional payments.  Also, I hope the powers that be take a closer look at how their policies and procedures are affecting their loyal base of customers.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 minute ago, derfp said:

Thanks.  I appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions.  I just hope that this discussion will help others in the same situation and others hopefully will not make additional payments.  Also, I hope the powers that be take a closer look at how their policies and procedures are affecting their loyal base of customers.

I knew that after final payment  they treated it as a full deposit but until this thread started I also had no idea that it was as soon as you made any additional payment.  Thanks for the heads up. 

[mac_tlc]

I have a Celebrity Apex January cruise that was booked during a “$50” Deposit promo.  I never make payments before final, but I did look at the invoice and it does say the minimum deposit is $250pp. 
 

I guess the question is if you make no more payments, will they charge you more to get up to the “minimum deposit”?

 

mac_tlc

 

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, mac_tlc said:

I guess the question is if you make no more payments, will they charge you more to get up to the “minimum deposit”?

They have not in the past - you just pay the balance at final payment.

[robtulipe]

1 hour ago, mac_tlc said:

I have a Celebrity Apex January cruise that was booked during a “$50” Deposit promo.  I never make payments before final, but I did look at the invoice and it does say the minimum deposit is $250pp. 
 

I guess the question is if you make no more payments, will they charge you more to get up to the “minimum deposit”?

 

mac_tlc

 

 

11 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

They have not in the past - you just pay the balance at final payment.

What if no final payment is made and your cruise is cancelled by RCCL because of that?

[Biker19]

13 minutes ago, robtulipe said:

What if no final payment is made and your cruise is cancelled by RCCL because of that?

I think in the past you lost your deposit, not sure what happens now with CWC in place.

[Ocean Boy]

So if someone books under a reduced non-refundable deposit without having made any further payments RCI gets the reduced deposit. If someone books under a reduced non-refundable deposit and cancels after having made more payments toward the cruise RCI gets everything up to he standard deposit. How does this make any sense at all? The customer gets penalized just for making early payments.

 

I have said many times in the past I never make early payments as the less money I have at risk the better. The standard pile-on that I have always received is... how is your money at risk? I guess I won't be asked that any longer.