Carnival Corp to retire 6 ships in next 90 days

[seaman11]

How much do they want? 

[ledges1]

I live in the Gulf Coast area. Carnival has an abundance of ships in this area that has the same iteniary as Mobile. Carnival, in my opinion, will be doing some serious downsizing. They need to reduce expenses desperately, not just now but in the future. I have a cruise planned in October out of Miami (booked before Covid19). I do not think it will sail. I am not sure college football play (23 players at Clemson tested positive for Covid19). If the cruise industry has to delay until 2021, some cruise lines will fail and some will have to reduce their fleet to survive. I love to cruise, but the world is changing and so is  the demand for cruises. The industry can not survive with only platinum and diamond cruisers. The industry needs new young cruisers, to survive. I think the industry has lost its luster at the moment to this group. If there is a surge in Covid19 in the fall, the cruise industry will be in survival mode more so than now. This is just an opinion based on 40 years of business experience in an industry that had significant consolidation. Of course, I could be wrong.

[ninjacat123]

16 hours ago, wo5m said:

They don't have the money to buy anything right now. All of Virgin's brands are hunting he has already has to mortgage his private island just to keep his brands afloat.  If this goes on much longer, I virgin cruises to go under.

Which private island?  I know he owns Necker and Mosquito Island.  Just curious...

[wo5m]

4 hours ago, ninjacat123 said:

Which private island?  I know he owns Necker and Mosquito Island.  Just curious...

It was Necker Island. 

 

https://people.com/travel/richard-branson-tries-to-mortgage-private-necker-island-to-save-airlines-amid-coronavirus-collapse/

[Trueblueky]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:21 PM, xDisconnections said:

They’ll either find a way to move their port or be stuck without a ship. Not every current port will have enough demand for a ship.

I don't see Carnival leaving Tampa.

[xDisconnections]

1 hour ago, Trueblueky said:

I don't see Carnival leaving Tampa.

Companies make many business decisions clear to them that may not be clear to you. If Tampa really wants Carnival’s business and smaller ships are no longer available, they’ll have to relocate the port as they previously once explored doing.

[KmomChicago]

Okay, we obviously need more opinions on whether Fantasy class is being targeted.

 

First off, balconies are a big deal.  Second, the number of ships serving any particular port is a definite concern.  Third, for certain ports, ship size matters.

 

I agree with those who think at least one or two Fantasy Class ships will go early in this process.  Some of them have no balconies except for their suites and junior suites, and those rooms are not comparable to the best suites on newer ships.  In the interview he said more could go after the initial six, so again I would think this class is under consideration for downsizing.

 

Paradise and Elation are the newest and most updated of the class, so I think they'll hang on to those, and with Spirit class,  they can keep most of their current small ports. Some ports with a Fantasy class ship, like San Juan, can easily handle the big boats. A larger, newer ship from there might be more attractive for Southern itineraries.

 

I agree that redundancy like Imagination and Inspiration both doing the same short runs from Long Beach may be a thing of the past.  It may be that Europe comes off the table for Carnival, and then maybe a single larger ship handles the 3/4 night party cruises and the old ships are retired.  Similarly, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale have newer Carnival ships and I question whether there will be enough demand in that area to keep Sensation.

 

Paradise is already in Tampa, Elation could go to Jacksonville, Pride is already in Baltimore. Not sure which other ports have size limits.  But that's my 2 cents. I think if you are a Fantasy class ship, your demise is directly linked to the number of balconies and a shuffle of the survivors will cover existing routes.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:18 PM, chengkp75 said:

 

Plumbers, electricians, and the painters you see around the ship are "trained mariners".

 

This thread is getting more holes than swiss cheese.

 

The original statement made was "The crew command will be roughly the same cost, as you need the same number of officers on a smaller ship as a larger one." which is true, but not true of the rest of the staff, trained mariners or whatever.

 

My statement was, and is correct.

On 6/18/2020 at 4:44 PM, BlerkOne said:

Far more service staff, plumbers, electricians, etc. than senior officers.

Plumbers, electricians, and the painters you see around the ship are "trained mariners".

 

 

 

[DryCreek]

12 hours ago, ledges1 said:

The industry needs new young cruisers, to survive. I think the industry has lost its luster at the moment to this group.

Are you referring to the younger Americans that consistently flock to the beaches and other public gatherings despite the hyped-up news about ScamDemic?

 

I think that this age demographic would be the first to return to cruising.  And, Carnival with its reputation as a younger-generation friendly line will be uniquely poised to capture the interest of those new, young cruisers.  All they need to do is tweak their itineraries and onboard offerings a tad and they're golden.

[BlerkOne]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:23 PM, fstuff1 said:

from a facebook page:

 

They are all carnival ships.

Carnival Fantasy (built in 1990), Ecstasy (1991), Sensation (1993), Fascination (1994), Imagination (1995), Inspiration (1996), Elation (1998) and Paradise (1998).

 

8 ships now?

 

and again, since they are so old, arent they paid off?

 

If they are implying Fantasy class will be gone, I would say malarkey. One or two maybe, but that class has flexibility larger ships don't.

 

Someone else mentioned balconies - balconies can be added to a ship and have been added to some Fantasy class ships.

 

 

 

 

[Trueblueky]

1 hour ago, xDisconnections said:

Companies make many business decisions clear to them that may not be clear to you. If Tampa really wants Carnival’s business and smaller ships are no longer available, they’ll have to relocate the port as they previously once explored doing.

Carnival,  HAL, RC, MSC, NCL, Celebrity sail out of Tampa.  A new cruise port would be nice, but is years away.

[xDisconnections]

55 minutes ago, Trueblueky said:

Carnival,  HAL, RC, MSC, NCL, Celebrity sail out of Tampa.  A new cruise port would be nice, but is years away.

For now 😉 

[ledges1]

8 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

For now 😉 

I just read on Key West news, that a referendum will be on the Nov 3rd ballot to reduce the  number of people that can exit cruise ships per day in Key West (1500 people). This could have a tremendous effect on the cruise industry. Especially, if this were to catch on in other ports such as St Thomas, Cozumel, Honduras, Jamaica, Bahamas, etc... Mega ships might have to drop Key West. Ports such as Cozumel can have at least 6 ships in port at one time. How many people is that, 10,000 to 15,000 people. The industry is facing tremendous challenges that will take years to address. We need a vacine!

[xDisconnections]

1 hour ago, ledges1 said:

I just read on Key West news, that a referendum will be on the Nov 3rd ballot to reduce the  number of people that can exit cruise ships per day in Key West (1500 people). This could have a tremendous effect on the cruise industry. Especially, if this were to catch on in other ports such as St Thomas, Cozumel, Honduras, Jamaica, Bahamas, etc... Mega ships might have to drop Key West. Ports such as Cozumel can have at least 6 ships in port at one time. How many people is that, 10,000 to 15,000 people. The industry is facing tremendous challenges that will take years to address. We need a vacine!

Up that number... two Oasis class and you’re already there.

[Essiesmom]

This announcement has created the most fun I've had in months, the speculation on 'who will they be?'.  Maybe someone should create a poll listing the ships they think most likely to go, and not just from Carnival Cruise Line but al of the lines in the Carnival family.  Then we could vote on which six we think most likely...  EM

[dragonfly33478]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/cruise-ship--1-432-1-718-passengers-3683905/

[dragonfly33478]

Second Hal vessel listed for sale as well.    Additional carnival brand(s) vessel (s)  listed as well

[dragonfly33478]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/cruise-ship--1-432-1-718-passengers-3683905/

[James_TheVirus]

1 hour ago, dragonfly33478 said:

Second Hal vessel listed for sale as well.    Additional carnival brand(s) vessel (s)  listed as well

Based on the specs listed, it looks like the Maasdam and Volendam.

Edited June 21, 2020 by James_TheVirus

[tinleypark andy]

14 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

Okay, we obviously need more opinions on whether Fantasy class is being targeted.

 

First off, balconies are a big deal.  Second, the number of ships serving any particular port is a definite concern.  Third, for certain ports, ship size matters.

 

I agree with those who think at least one or two Fantasy Class ships will go early in this process.  Some of them have no balconies except for their suites and junior suites, and those rooms are not comparable to the best suites on newer ships.  In the interview he said more could go after the initial six, so again I would think this class is under consideration for downsizing.

 

 

I live just a little south of you.

 

Or at least allow the windows to be opened in the ocean view rooms. That plus, any ship that does not have an outdoor theater should be relieved of duties.

14 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

 

 

 

[James_TheVirus]

The Inspiration, and Paradise also look to be listed, but it could also be the Elation as both the Paradise and Elation were both built in 1998.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, James_TheVirus said:

Based on the specs listed, it looks like the Maasdam and Volendam.

 

It also could be the Zaandam.  Given the recent bad press she received early in the pandemic, the corporate thinking may be that she is a pariah.

 

Some of the interior photos on the web site about the ship don't currently match with some of the interiors of either of the 3 chips, I don't believe.  I have sailed recently on Zaandam and Volendam; it's been 10 years for the Maasdam.  The Piano Bar and Crow's Nest photoes shown are of the "old style" and I am not sure it's the same on any of the three.  

[KmomChicago]

3 hours ago, James_TheVirus said:

The Inspiration, and Paradise also look to be listed, but it could also be the Elation as both the Paradise and Elation were both built in 1998.

I have seen all 8 Fantasy class ships listed on broker sites for several years and many others on Cruise Critic report the same. Elation and Paradise are the best of the class which just means least likely to be scrapped entirely. They’ve had more maintenance and upgrades poured into them; they have what I understand to be a better propulsion system, and as you note they are the newest.  They’re worth the most to Carnival but likewise probably the most attractive to buyers. 
 

We are getting to the point where they have to weigh scrap value vs. sale value vs. sail value (keep using them). Hard to imagine a ship being essentially thrown away but it’s time unfortunately, and it’s more of a recycling or salvage type operation when a ship is dismantled.

[cruisequeen4ever]

Just based on age, there are many Carnival and HAL candidates. The poster who mentioned the lack of balconies on the older ships had a very valid point; that could really play in to their decision. I think with people more and more prioritizing fresh air, balconies are going to be more popular than ever. 

[KmomChicago]

2 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

Just based on age, there are many Carnival and HAL candidates. The poster who mentioned the lack of balconies on the older ships had a very valid point; that could really play in to their decision. I think with people more and more prioritizing fresh air, balconies are going to be more popular than ever. 

Right so Spirit class should be safe with a huge proportion of balconies compared to other room types.