Carnival to Dump Six Ships

[jeanlyon]

yes agree.  i think the main difference is that Fred seems very expensive on launch and gets cheaper towards the sailing date.  P&O seem to be the opposite.

[Adawn47]

26 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Hi Andrew, I looked at some other cruises on Fred and they are all way more expensive than P&O

I've had a look through as well. Not only are they more expensive but I don't think the cabins nor the ships themselves seem as nice 

Avril 

[jeanlyon]

We have had a couple of good cruises with Fred, but paid very little for 25 days out to Dubai!  They have gone up a lot since then, but makes sense with smaller ships as Andrew said.

[Adawn47]

10 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

We have had a couple of good cruises with Fred, but paid very little for 25 days out to Dubai!  They have gone up a lot since then, but makes sense with smaller ships as Andrew said.

I agree with that. It seems as though we may have to search around for another cruise line soon if we want to continue with the smaller ships. We just need to wait for all the dust to settle first so we can see the clearer picture. No one knows anything for certain yet,  it's all speculation and fuel for a good debate😉

Avril 

 

[tring]

29 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Hi Andrew, I looked at some other cruises on Fred and they are all way more expensive than P&O

 

 

Just my opinion:-

 

It depends when you book the cruises.  They are expensive at launch, but with a new brochure they often bring in a 3 for 2 offer which reduces each cruise by up to a third.  There are other offers come up on certain cruises at other times as well - reduced freedom fare often and we got a good deal on one on a Black Friday deal for last year.  There flights are expensive, but we prefer our own flights anyway as we like to combine with a land holiday and stick with day flights if going (say east) and will stop off on the way for a few nights or have stayed at the airside hotel in Dubai - great hotel and leave at go to gate time.  Fred sell cruise only, so no need to pay for the flights, which we would have to with P&O even if we did not want them.

 

Fred's food is better and staff are much better in our experience.  We are not so happy about lack of freedom dining, though do find P&O freedom can be very rushed and had been stuck in some cramped locations in the some P&O restaurants with tables for two. Easier to get a table for two if book earlier with Fred - though easier still for us as we know how to go about it, by experience.  His self service restaurants are way better than P&O cafe style places IMO though.  We sail for itineraries and did a good one on Arcadia Baltic last year, but find P&O itineraries very unimpressive with the same old ports/destinations and we have take a day to get to Southampton and stay in a  hotel before most cruises.  Fred do more late night/overnights as well, which is our sort of thing - though we are often off the ship with the staff whilst most passengers are on the ship 🙂

 

Very different in many ways and depends what you want.  We would not go low down to the rear third of Fred's ships as can be vibration, but all ships well presented now as they have kept them to a much different standard in recent years.  Compared to that we found Arcadia very old looking, with an extremely dark dingy cabin (large window outside one).  About half of the public toilets were out of order and they made no attempt to unblock them throughout the cruise.  They kept the retractable roof closed most of the way over most of the cruise yet it was summer and good weather.  Dining room very cramped with waiters often brushing by closely with large trays - had tried asking for better but perhaps our Mediterranean level was not good enough.

 

Apart from our dislike of Arcadia, we have enjoyed Oriana, Oceana and particularly the old Artemis in the past, but those itineraries were fairly new to us.  We have booked N. American Eastern Seaboard for Sept 2021 on Aurora, but hoping it is not as bad as Arcadia.  Even if it is that itinerary is good with lots of ports and we have only done a few of the Canadian ones previously.

 

We would not travel on P&O's big ship runs to the same old places as not our thing, though will always keep an eye on what is on offer.  We would be very sad if more small ship companies visiting interesting destinations go down as we sadly lamented the demise of Swan Hellenic and VOD.  The options seem to be limited to the overpriced lines like Azamara, which we found OK, but not that much different to Fred for the price differences.

 

P&O is absolutely fine for a cruise if happy to just be on a ship and visit the same places.  That is what you may well prefer so a cheap cruise on a larger ship may well be your thing (by larger I mean something the size of P&O mid sized ships, which we find rather too big for many destinations).  Economy of scale has it's advantages for some.  We may well look closer at Saga though after seeing many comments - not looked at them before so we have no idea what they offer.

 

  

[tring]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

Indeed Jean - but as I have just said in my post above, smaller/older ships are more expensive to operate and as Fred's ships only carry between around 900 to 1300 pax, they are not going to be as cheap as P&O - especially as P&O are generally lowering the standards gradually.

I will find out next year (hopefully) but Fred Olsen also seem to spend a lot more upgrading and refurbishing their fleet than P&O do these days.

Small-ship cruising is very much a niche and as such, I expect it to be more expensive. Whilst I am still very happy at present to sail on Aurora and Arcadia, I am increasingly attracted to Fred Olsen and, if they survive, CMV.

 

I agree, but sadly I do think they will have higher prices in future.  They gave a very good offer to people who had lost cruises with Swan and VOD  (-25% on any cruise) and do seem to have picked up some of there customers since then, though many had already cruised with Fred as well.  That is particularly noticeable on the Boudicca long cruises to distant places which can be bought in 2 week slots (or more) since they do a very good itinerary similar to Swan and it is a calmer more refined atmosphere on those cruises.  Also fits our travel style well so we can slot a cruise as part of the travelling on a longer Jaunt with land stays/tours.  The more northerly itineraries are good as well and not something you get elsewhere - but popular so not cheap ones either.  If CMV go down they will likely benefit there as well.  I think Fred's prices will rise for those reasons - there are people who will pay for those sort of experiences, but not for the "Luxury" cruise experience.  Voyages of Antiquity picked up some Swan customers, but that has gone now as well.

 

We will have to see though as the cruise line was not a well favoured part of the overall Fred business which is massive.  Any businesses are at risk now, particularly cruise lines.  Fred have done very well with refunds and keeping people informed, which has been well appreciated by his customers mind.  We may just stick with land hols in the main, perhaps with the odd cruise in the future and lots of other people may change travel styles as well. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by tring

[bee-ess]

I think that from Carnival's perspective the amount of on-board spent generated by the bigger ships must be a big factor. Apart from the fact that the larger ships carry more passengers I would think that the amount of spend per person is probably higher than on the smaller ships. On the larger ships there are more opportunities to spend with more eating venues and especially so when the 2 Gala class ships are part of the fleet and I also think that they sell more £40pppd drinks packages on the larger family ships than the smaller ships. We went on Oceana in Feb and did not see people spending in the bars like we do on Britannia in the Caribbean.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

We went on Oceana in Feb and did not see people spending in the bars like we do on Britannia in the Caribbean.

To be fair, I think that is very much a reflection of the type of cruise, rather than the size of the ship. A warm Caribbean evening is  more conducive to a glass or two of something cold, compared to battling back to Southampton in a Force 10 in February (if you were on the same Oceana cruise as we were.)

[No pager thank you]

3 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I also think that they sell more £40pppd drinks packages on the larger family ships than the smaller ships. We went on Oceana in Feb and did not see people spending in the bars like we do on Britannia in the Caribbean.

I'd heard (from a few staff) that the drinks packages had been a massive flop - they are there only as a sop to Carnival. 

 

P&O didn't want them - hence the prohibitive rules, even if you buy one.  £40 pppd is deliberately high.

 

I was watching one of the staff try and sell these on board for an hour or so, on day one, whilst having a (paid for) drink at the poolside bar...not one punter came forward - anecdote if course.

[bee-ess]

11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

To be fair, I think that is very much a reflection of the type of cruise, rather than the size of the ship. A warm Caribbean evening is  more conducive to a glass or two of something cold, compared to battling back to Southampton in a Force 10 in February (if you were on the same Oceana cruise as we were.)

I think we were on the one after, got back on March 8th.

Edited June 20, 2020 by bee-ess

[No pager thank you]

39 minutes ago, tring said:

We will have to see though as the cruise line was not a well favoured part of the overall Fred business which is massive.  Any businesses are at risk now, particularly cruise lines.  Fred have done very well with refunds and keeping people informed, which has been well appreciated by his customers mind.  We may just stick with land hols in the main, perhaps with the odd cruise in the future and lots of other people may change travel styles as well. 

Thank you for your last two posts, enjoyed reading your thoughts.  All companies have struggled with refunds and customer service recently. 

 

Fred is not perfect but a noticeable outlier (in a good way, where a lot of the problems have been put down to TA taking their time to request funds).

 

That has caused us to consider them in a way that I haven't before to be honest, as an alternative to Arcadia / Aurora on P&O, where we want a relaxed cruise ship experience.  Interestingly, their take on fluid pricing seems to reward late deals, as opposed to P&O where the best prices are available at pre-registration.  Food quality apparently better, drinks prices better, entertainment on a par. 

 

Obviously not the grandeur of P&O ships though to be fair.

[bee-ess]

11 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I'd heard (from a few staff) that the drinks packages had been a massive flop - they are there only as a sop to Carnival. 

 

P&O didn't want them - hence the prohibitive rules, even if you buy one.  £40 pppd is deliberately high.

 

I was watching one of the staff try and sell these on board for an hour or so, on day one, whilst having a (paid for) drink at the poolside bar...not one punter came forward - anecdote if course.

I agree they are high (maybe deliberately) and I would not buy one, but I was just making a point that I think the different profile of passenger on the larger ships are more likely to buy them.

[wowzz]

When talking to other cruisers about Fred,  the one comment that always seemed to arise, was the advanced age of the typical Fred cruiser. Would those of you with experience of Fred say that is a true reflection ?

[jeanlyon]

Yes I would agree, but then we are 81 and 73, but hopefully not of the aged fall asleep in the chair in Tiffanys type!  LOL

 

There's older and then there's older.  I remember being with our friend who is 84 and very fit.  A lady in front of her said loudly. "I'm 74 you know".  My friend nodded and then said to me.  "don't tell her I'm 84!"  

 

Anyway, I thought people said they were all aged on Aurora as well!!

[tring]

44 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Thank you for your last two posts, enjoyed reading your thoughts.  All companies have struggled with refunds and customer service recently. 

 

Fred is not perfect but a noticeable outlier (in a good way, where a lot of the problems have been put down to TA taking their time to request funds).

 

That has caused us to consider them in a way that I haven't before to be honest, as an alternative to Arcadia / Aurora on P&O, where we want a relaxed cruise ship experience.  Interestingly, their take on fluid pricing seems to reward late deals, as opposed to P&O where the best prices are available at pre-registration.  Food quality apparently better, drinks prices better, entertainment on a par. 

 

Obviously not the grandeur of P&O ships though to be fair.

We shy away from late deals as cabins often not well placed.  You would not want to be at this back of the ships, especially on the lower decks. Mind you they will always try move you to a quieter cabin if they can. 

 

Fred dealt with refund requests direct for all, but some reports of some agents not refunding quickly as money sent via agents.  Now Fred Is contacting people directly as their cruise is cancelled.

 

[grapau27]

18 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes I would agree, but then we are 81 and 73, but hopefully not of the aged fall asleep in the chair in Tiffanys type!  LOL

 

There's older and then there's older.  I remember being with our friend who is 84 and very fit.  A lady in front of her said loudly. "I'm 74 you know".  My friend nodded and then said to me.  "don't tell her I'm 84!"  

 

Anyway, I thought people said they were all aged on Aurora as well!!

If Fred Olsen  bought Oceana or Aurora and home ported them in Newcastle I would seriously look at them.

We always stay in balcony cabins and because the small ships have very few balcony cabins the prices are prohibitive.

We have never sailed Marella either but their offering was improved massively when they bought 2 of our favourite RC Vision class ships.

[tring]

46 minutes ago, wowzz said:

When talking to other cruisers about Fred,  the one comment that always seemed to arise, was the advanced age of the typical Fred cruiser. Would those of you with experience of Fred say that is a true reflection ?

 

Yes but not narrow minded.  We did not start cruising until our mid fifties so in the age group.  We find manners a lot better, probably because of that tbh.

[No pager thank you]

3 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

 

We have never sailed Marella either but their offering was improved massively when they bought 2 of our favourite RC Vision class ships.

I couldn't recommend Marella Discovery - we sailed on her to Norway, never again, and the passenger service at Newcastle was really poor.

 

The food was awful - I mean 2* hotel level.  Having the same frozen foods in the speciality restaurants day after day.  I paid on several occasions to eat off the ship in Norway!

 

Entertainment and AI package were much better than P&O (neither difficult) and staff friendlier and whole atmosphere less stuffy too.  Interior / Decor not up to scratch though.  But we couldn't get past the food.

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

I'd heard (from a few staff) that the drinks packages had been a massive flop - they are there only as a sop to Carnival. 

 

P&O didn't want them - hence the prohibitive rules, even if you buy one.  £40 pppd is deliberately high.

 

I was watching one of the staff try and sell these on board for an hour or so, on day one, whilst having a (paid for) drink at the poolside bar...not one punter came forward - anecdote if course.

When we were on Azura's TA in October, one of the senior hotel side officers told us that they had sold about 350 AI drink packages. About 10% of the pax.  He was quite pleased with that level, well appeared to be.  

 

We do like a drink, but certainly can't drink enough to make the £40pppd worthwhile.  However, was chatting with other pax ashore one day, and one chap was really pleased with the package, he liked the top of the range spirits so it was worth it for him.

[grapau27]

3 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I couldn't recommend Marella Discovery - we sailed on her to Norway, never again, and the passenger service at Newcastle was really poor.

 

The food was awful - I mean 2* hotel level.  Having the same frozen foods in the speciality restaurants day after day.  I paid on several occasions to eat off the ship in Norway!

 

Entertainment and AI package were much better than P&O (neither difficult) and staff friendlier and whole atmosphere less stuffy too.  Interior / Decor not up to scratch though.  But we couldn't get past the food.

Before cruising we took family on several DFDS cruiseferries in 2000-2003 to Norway, Sweden and Amsterdam from Newcastle.

We are 15 minutes drive away when going through the Tyne Tunnel so it is extremely convenient for us.

Marella,Fred Olsen and MSC have home ported here but we never fancied any of them but Aurora or Oceana ideally with P&O or even under Fred Olsen sailing from here would be irresistible not to try.

[No pager thank you]

9 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

When we were on Azura's TA in October, one of the senior hotel side officers told us that they had sold about 350 AI drink packages. About 10% of the pax.  He was quite pleased with that level, well appeared to be.  

 

We do like a drink, but certainly can't drink enough to make the £40pppd worthwhile.  However, was chatting with other pax ashore one day, and one chap was really pleased with the package, he liked the top of the range spirits so it was worth it for him.

That's interesting - 10% surprises me; I would have thought that it would have been around 3-5% at a guess.

 

By quick maths, if you enjoy drinks and can max out the 15 alcoholic drinks a day, the package can to theoretically reduce your bill from around £75 per day to the £40 - depending on your drinks of choice.  Good for some.

 

Maybe some people don't do maths or are transferring from American lines, where £40 is a good deal.

 

Most passengers as you say though, aren't easily going to drink more than 8 alcoholic drinks a day on average, with allowances for port days / overnights.

Edited June 20, 2020 by No pager thank you
Typo

[grapau27]

27 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

When we were on Azura's TA in October, one of the senior hotel side officers told us that they had sold about 350 AI drink packages. About 10% of the pax.  He was quite pleased with that level, well appeared to be.  

 

We do like a drink, but certainly can't drink enough to make the £40pppd worthwhile.  However, was chatting with other pax ashore one day, and one chap was really pleased with the package, he liked the top of the range spirits so it was worth it for him.

I think on a TA when you are at sea for several days the drinks package might be good value but on port intensive cruises if you are off the ship for a good part of the day a drinks package is poor value.

[molecrochip]

2 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

I'd heard (from a few staff) that the drinks packages had been a massive flop - they are there only as a sop to Carnival. 

 

P&O didn't want them - hence the prohibitive rules, even if you buy one.  £40 pppd is deliberately high.

They were introduced as it gave P&O something to offer as an incentive.

 

Most other lines offer an all inclusive promotion at some point. A lot of customers see it as good value if free and it’s a good extra for a slow selling cruise.

 

It gave P&O the flexibility to, on occasion, target the all inclusive market.

Edited June 20, 2020 by molecrochip

[majortom10]

2 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

I'd heard (from a few staff) that the drinks packages had been a massive flop - they are there only as a sop to Carnival. 

 

P&O didn't want them - hence the prohibitive rules, even if you buy one.  £40 pppd is deliberately high.

 

I was watching one of the staff try and sell these on board for an hour or so, on day one, whilst having a (paid for) drink at the poolside bar...not one punter came forward - anecdote if course.

Compared to Princess and Cunard is very cheap. But Princess did recently starting to do a good deal of drinks package and graatuities/wi-fi for £35pppn where prior to that it was $60pppd and Cunard was $70pppd.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

That's interesting - 10% surprises me; I would have thought that it would have been around 3-5% at a guess.

 

By quick maths, if you enjoy drinks and can max out the 15 alcoholic drinks a day, the package can to theoretically reduce your bill from around £75 per day to the £40 - depending on your drinks of choice.  Good for some.

 

Maybe some people don't do maths or are transferring from American lines, where £40 is a good deal.

 

Most passengers as you say though, aren't easily going to drink more than 8 alcoholic drinks a day on average, with allowances for port days / overnights.

But you are failing to account for other drinks that are available with the drinks package so would be even more beneficial. One thing I think is for certain that drinks prices in the bars will increase over next 12 months or so and if they become anywhere near the prices of drinks on Cunard/Princess then if drinks package price stays at £40pppd everybody will be buying it.