Older Cruisers Left Out of vaccine Trials

[Reader0108598]

I would take vaccine in a heartbeat so sick right now not funny took a covid test on Friday should get results tomorrow! Poor husband just about carried me in and out of the car! I had a compression fracture of the vertabea. Which means my bones decided not to support me . I was at three different doctors and a hospital. I wore my mask but I picked somthing up! Stay well everyone!

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Reader0108598

[mcrcruiser]

I read the CNBC article . In our case being 81 each & both of us having underlying medical conditions we would need our doctor to say to us it would be safe for us to get the vaccination .   Our doctor is a geriatric internist  . He  works on the side of caution 1st & foremost  ,  It seems to me that we should also hear about the  Johnson & Johnson  vaccine because it is supposed to be one injection & not 2 injections 

 

 From all the discussion posts & that CNBC ,we most likely will wait awhile to get the vaccination & perhaps it would be the JNJ vaccine  .This is why we scheduled our first cruise back into January 2022 to give ourselves wiggle room .We  are planing  road trip  Sept 2021

[aimee0715]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:59 AM, cruzsnooze said:

Many of us cruisers are seniors. Now hearing we were left out of trials is disturbing. We are the most susceptible to covid and most likely to have the worst outcomes if we contract the virus. I won't be taking the vaccine and will have to wait a long time to be able to safely cruise again.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/30/age-disparities-clinical-trials-covid19/

 

AARP had this to say

The race to find a coronavirus vaccine is advancing at an unprecedented pace. But as several vaccine candidates progress into their third and final phase of testing, a question concerning diversity is being pushed to the forefront: Are the participants on the receiving end of the needle an accurate representation of the American public, and especially the populations most affected by COVID-19?

The Moderna vaccine is being tested at a large university hospital in my area.  I am an attorney and have several elderly clients who have named me as their agent so I receive their mail and pay their bills.  Two or three weeks ago, one of those clients got a letter from the hospital stating that they were looking for elderly folks and people with diabetes to sign up for the vaccine trial.  

[mcrcruiser]

27 minutes ago, aimee0715 said:

The Moderna vaccine is being tested at a large university hospital in my area.  I am an attorney and have several elderly clients who have named me as their agent so I receive their mail and pay their bills.  Two or three weeks ago, one of those clients got a letter from the hospital stating that they were looking for elderly folks and people with diabetes to sign up for the vaccine trial.  

Wow imo  no one seems to have a good handle on the side effects that might trouble elderly people . I am 81 with undelying medical conditions & my wife is also 81 with underlying medical conditions .We feel it can be dangerous those side effects for seniors with underlying medical conditions .From what we have read that people have gotten high temperatures ,terrible shaking  ,severe head aches ie  ,That is not something that any senior should go through  & it could even be life threatening  .Better to see how the Johnson And johnson  one shot works out .They are also testing the most numbers of people  .  

 

 These vaccination injections must past each person's own doctor as to safety before getting the shot . so far the reactions/side effects are vastly more severe than the normal yearly flu shots 

 

 We had done 87 past cruises . now ,er decided to wait until at least Jan  2022 to do our first cruise post  covid 19 pandemic . Only  Heaven knows if the pandemic  will be a thing of the past by that date 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by mcrcruiser

[galveston gal]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:27 PM, Lucky TGO said:

Hi azbirdmom,

I truly Admire you for volunteering for the COVID vaccine trials!! I just like to say Thank You and God Bless. 
Tony

 

 

I am in the Pfizer study and am also considered a senior.  I believe they were accepting up to 83 or 84 years of age.  I have had both doses and no issues other than what you would expect from a flu shot.

[cruzsnooze]

You do now that as of Oct 4th Johnson And Johnson paused the trials. Here's the headline and site. OMG I did not enlarge it that's how it copied and pasted

 

Johnson & Johnson Pausing Clinical Trial For Covid-19 Vaccine ‘Reminder’ Of Trump's ‘Absurdity’

158,162 views

•Oct 13, 2020

 

 

2.2K200SHARESAVE

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by cruzsnooze

[pris993]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:08 AM, cruzsnooze said:

I don't trust any of it. When politicians interject themselves into medicine the results are not credible. Many of us subscribe to AARP and they have more credibility then politics.   Googling the question about the vaccine brings up pages to support the trials do not represent the general population.  No vaccine for me and I believed in vaccines up to this debacle.

AARP is just as biased as any of the media.   I use my own common sense.  

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

You do now that as of Oct 4th Johnson And Johnson paused the trials. Here's the headline and site. OMG I did not enlarge it that's how it copied and pasted

 

Johnson & Johnson Pausing Clinical Trial For Covid-19 Vaccine ‘Reminder’ Of Trump's ‘Absurdity’

158,162 views

•Oct 13, 2020

 

 

2.2K200SHARESAVE

 

It is common for trials to be paused.  If anyone gets sick or symptomatic they pause until they determine whether it is the trial drug or other external cause.  When dealing with thousands of people it is likely someone up is going to become ill from some cause.   It may not be related to the vaccine at all.   Patience is required before concluding.   And that is just as true for both sides of this argument.   Frankly I have never seen so many people decry a possible vaccine that may alleviate human suffering 

[cruzsnooze]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

   Frankly I have never seen so many people decry a possible vaccine that may alleviate human suffering 

That's because I personally don't believe it will alleviate human suffering, I believe the political aspect caused it to be put out too soon and the side effects and efficacy aren't known. It may actually be detrimental to health, we need to wait and see which will take months if not years. 

  I am well aware of drugs used for years and then discovered how detrimental it was. Remember this one?

 

Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children

[Porky55]

4 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

That's because I personally don't believe it will alleviate human suffering, I believe the political aspect caused it to be put out too soon and the side effects and efficacy aren't known. It may actually be detrimental to health, we need to wait and see which will take months if not years. 

  I am well aware of drugs used for years and then discovered how detrimental it was. Remember this one?

 

Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children

Thalidomide was never a vaccine and never went through ANY testing. As tragic as it was it has no comparison with what is going on now - in fact it is partly because of the “Thalidomide Tragedy” that testing for this and all medicines and vaccines are now so thorough.
Time isn't the critical factor, quantity of volunteers willing to be tested in each Phase is -and as I understand it, there are many thousands of volunteers for this vaccine. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Porky55

[caribill]

1 minute ago, Porky55 said:

Time isn't the critical factor, quantity of volunteers willing to be tested in each Phase is -and as I understand it, there are many thousands of volunteers for this vaccine. 

 

Yes, but not in all the demographics they need to have in the trials in order to be sure it is safe for everyone.

[Porky55]

Just now, caribill said:

 

Yes, but not in all the demographics they need to have in the trials in order to be sure it is safe for everyone.

Not sure about that, I think they are as far as they safely can 🤔

This thread has a lot of information:

Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

By Ken the cruiser,  July 10 in Celebrity Cruises

[caribill]

5 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

Not sure about that, I think they are as far as they safely can 🤔

 

 

 

For example, the first trial that will include children younger than 18 is about to start.

 

Also, to my knowledge, no pregnant women are included so far in any Phase 3 study.

[Porky55]

11 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

For example, the first trial that will include children younger than 18 is about to start.

 

Also, to my knowledge, no pregnant women are included so far in any Phase 3 study.

Don’t see the need for children to be honest as Covid19 hardly affected them.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Porky55

[broberts]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:59 AM, cruzsnooze said:

Many of us cruisers are seniors. Now hearing we were left out of trials is disturbing. We are the most susceptible to covid and most likely to have the worst outcomes if we contract the virus....

 

While it is true that seniors tend to have worse outcomes I don't believe there is data to suggest that age is a factor in the chance of an adult contracting COVID.

[caribill]

10 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

Don’t see the need for children to be honest as Covid19 hardly affected them

 

Although those younger than 18 have a very low mortality rate, they are just as likely to catch the coronavirus as those older than 18 and can just as easily spread it to those older than 18.

 

In addition, they can still have damage to organs including the heart that are not immediately obvious.

 

 

[Mary229]

8 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

That's because I personally don't believe it will alleviate human suffering, I believe the political aspect caused it to be put out too soon and the side effects and efficacy aren't known. It may actually be detrimental to health, we need to wait and see which will take months if not years. 

  I am well aware of drugs used for years and then discovered how detrimental it was. Remember this one?

 

Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children

First putting things into perspective this is a worldwide issue.  What happens in the US is hardly impactful.  Many of these studies are NOT being conducted on US soil or under the supervision of the FDA.  That is our unfortunate egocentric view.  

 

Oh and, btw, thalidomide is still used outside of the US.  Yep.  Just consider all of the Shriners and St. Jude commercials.  Thalidomide is used off label for morning sickness.  Thalidomide was intended for cancer and leprosy.  

[Mary229]

All ages and ethnic demographics are being included in the studies.  Read proper, up to date sources for information.  FDA, CDC and NIH have numerous articles as do agencies of other countries and WHO.   There is a whole other thread about senior in trials started by someone who either misinterpreted an AARP article or the article was written to cause fear.  I don't read AARP but I did sign up for the trials very early on as did other of my friends and neighbors.  As to children, they should be studied and are because not all children react the same.  What will be interesting is how far down on the distribution list children will reside.  

Edited October 18, 2020 by Mary229

[galveston gal]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

For example, the first trial that will include children younger than 18 is about to start.

 

Also, to my knowledge, no pregnant women are included so far in any Phase 3 study.

Not true.  Pfizer is taking age 12 and up. And it seems no matter what facts anyone provides you have your mind made up.  
 

Mary229 I am with you on this!

Edited October 18, 2020 by galveston gal

[Potstech]

How many on here have  verified their "facts" or are just regurgitating something they read in some organizations monthly magazine?  Too many articles with so called experts who do nothing but write articles.

 

[galveston gal]

4 minutes ago, Potstech said:

How many on here have  verified their "facts" or are just regurgitating something they read in some organizations monthly magazine?  Too many articles with so called experts who do nothing but write articles.

 

I can speak of Pfizer as I am in it and have regular interaction with study coordinator.  I am not commenting on any other “facts”.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, galveston gal said:

Not true.  Pfizer is taking age 12 and up.

 

Pert the following article, Pfizer is just starting to includer people in this age range.

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20201004/time-to-include-children-in-covid19-vaccine-trials-experts-say

 

Any results they might present in November will not include anyone under age 18.

[HappyInVan]

17 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Frankly I have never seen so many people decry a possible vaccine that may alleviate human suffering 

 

Speaking for myself, I would like to see the successful development of several vaccines against covid19. However, I hope that the industry can avoid major mistakes.

 

After all, we have seen politicians make major mistakes in many countries. Let's not mess with the scientific processes.

 

In the meantime, we have Dr. Fauci's (etc) advise to social distance and wear masks. Dr. Redfield made the point that masks can be better than a vaccine. At this time, I'm pretty certain that where infections still occur, someone didn't wear an effective mask.

 

[Mary229]

40 minutes ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

While it is by no means a rare event, the clear majority of clinical trials do not get paused.  Of the dozens of trials for companies that I have worked for, I can't recall even one which ever got paused.  They don't pause it just because someone gets sick or symptomatic.  It usually has to do with unforeseen circumstances.  In a trial of tens of thousands of people, a lot of them are going to get sick or symptomatic.

 

 

The UK trial was paused for a single individual and that is common for drugs that will be widely distributed.   Look, if you don't want to take the vaccine - don't.  I am going to and I am going to move forward fearlessly.  I have been traveling, plan to continue to travel and I am an older adult with pre-existing conditions.  

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

This is not about whether one wants to take the vaccine or not.  It's about portraying the situation accurately.  That one patient you refer to was not just because they got sick.  It was due to a side effect of the drug that they probably couldn't understand why it occurred.  It's tough to say because they don't disclose the details in these situations.  It wasn't because they came down with Covid-19 or because of just any random flu like side effect.  If that were the case, hardly any drug would ever get approved.  There are plenty of adverse events and even severe adverse events in trials that don't cause it to have a pause. 

 

It actually is.  People read political sites to gather information.  They need to read reliable information and not just US and western sources.  I gave examples of such.