Older Cruisers Left Out of vaccine Trials

[cruzsnooze]

Many of us cruisers are seniors. Now hearing we were left out of trials is disturbing. We are the most susceptible to covid and most likely to have the worst outcomes if we contract the virus. I won't be taking the vaccine and will have to wait a long time to be able to safely cruise again.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/30/age-disparities-clinical-trials-covid19/

 

AARP had this to say

The race to find a coronavirus vaccine is advancing at an unprecedented pace. But as several vaccine candidates progress into their third and final phase of testing, a question concerning diversity is being pushed to the forefront: Are the participants on the receiving end of the needle an accurate representation of the American public, and especially the populations most affected by COVID-19?

Edited September 30, 2020 by cruzsnooze
typo

[roamerfromtexas]

The Phase 3 trial being done here in San Antonio, Texas does have participants 65 and older.  A variety of ages and races were recruited.

Edited September 30, 2020 by roamerfromtexas
Additional comment

[msmoger]

This might be encouraging.

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3618303-modernas-covidminus-19-vaccine-shows-positive-effect-in-older-adults-in-early-stage-study

 

This is the headline from today's article:

 

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine shows positive effect in older adults in early-stage study

[cruzsnooze]

18 minutes ago, roamerfromtexas said:

The Phase 3 trial being done here in San Antonio, Texas does have participants 65 and older.  A variety of ages and races were recruited.

Maybe Maybe not, let's see data listing every participants age and health status but certainly no personal information. Let's be transparent and know how many participants have co-morbitities like hypertension and or diabetes.  How many have respiratory compromises like asthma, copd, emphysema, lung cancer and the list goes on.  Makes the whole process suspect to me and i need professional epidemiologists to endorse the process and results.  

  This lack of disclosure will hurt the cruise industry and other travel related businesses.

[cruzsnooze]

6 minutes ago, msmoger said:

This might be encouraging.

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3618303-modernas-covidminus-19-vaccine-shows-positive-effect-in-older-adults-in-early-stage-study

 

This is the headline from today's article:

 

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine shows positive effect in older adults in early-stage study

Within that study you posted is this which has exclutions. They only want healthy adults who are not usually the people with the worst outcomes should they contract covid.

"

• Healthy adults or adults with pre-existing medical conditions who are in stable condition. A stable medical condition is defined as disease not requiring significant change in therapy or hospitalization for worsening disease during the 3 months before enrollment.

[Mary229]

That is not true.  I personally know one 70 year old in the trial and another 50+ with conditions in the trials

[cruzsnooze]

I don't trust any of it. When politicians interject themselves into medicine the results are not credible. Many of us subscribe to AARP and they have more credibility then politics.   Googling the question about the vaccine brings up pages to support the trials do not represent the general population.  No vaccine for me and I believed in vaccines up to this debacle.

Edited September 30, 2020 by cruzsnooze

[neverbeenhere]

I know a couple who is participating in a trial and they are over 65. So far, they've had no issues. (But are they on a placebo?)

Vaccines usually take years to be developed and approved as safe, For some cruise vacations may not be in their future.         

 

Get on the bus, forget about us, put the blame on Covid.

[waltd]

I really don't understand what you are complaining about.   The govenrment is fast tracking this vaccine.    It's not taking years it's taking months.   Why wouldn't they start with healthy people first.    I would think it would be the easiet to control and get results back faster.   IF it works then go back and pulll in those with  immune problems, age etc. and do more testing.     Yes you are right.   I will not be traveling any time soon even if they say there is a vaccine.    Even my own doctor said he would not take the vacine until  it's been around for at least a few months to see what happens.  

Edited September 30, 2020 by waltd

[c-boy]

removed ... self imposed sanction .

Edited September 30, 2020 by c-boy

[cruzsnooze]

18 minutes ago, waltd said:

I really don't understand what you are complaining about.   The govenrment is fast tracking this vaccine.    It's not taking years it's taking months.   Why wouldn't they start with healthy people first.    I would think it would be the easiet to control and get results back faster.   IF it works then go back and pulll in those with  immune problems, age etc. and do more testing.     Yes you are right.   I will not be traveling any time soon even if they say there is a vaccine.    Even my own doctor said he would not take the vacine until  it's been around for at least a few months to see what happens.  

It's being fast tracked by taking short cuts that undermine it's efficacy and safety.  It's stated the vaccine will be given to those most vulnerable, health care workers and seniors and those with underlying conditions so why wouldn't you want to use those participants in an equal representation in the trial. 

[cruzsnooze]

15 minutes ago, c-boy said:

op's  hidden agenda rears it's ugly head.

What agenda is that? I cruise 3-4 times a year and miss it terribly. My retirement is revolving around travel. I have 4 cruises currently booked but one I will cancel since it's too soon after the anticipated beginning  of sailings. 

[Potstech]

8 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

It's being fast tracked by taking short cuts that undermine it's efficacy and safety.  It's stated the vaccine will be given to those most vulnerable, health care workers and seniors and those with underlying conditions so why wouldn't you want to use those participants in an equal representation in the trial. 

And these shortcuts are? Where are they documented by scientist that can be trusted?

[waltd]

10 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

It's being fast tracked by taking short cuts that undermine it's efficacy and safety.  It's stated the vaccine will be given to those most vulnerable, health care workers and seniors and those with underlying conditions so why wouldn't you want to use those participants in an equal representation in the trial. 

At the end of the day only you can decide what is best for you but you are not the expert on vaccines so please don't tell us how they are undermining it's efficacy and safety.  

Edited September 30, 2020 by waltd

[cruzsnooze]

2 minutes ago, waltd said:

At the end of the day only you can decide what is best for you but you are not the expert on vaccines so please don't tell us how they are undermining it's efficacy and safety.  

I didn't tell you, the multiple articles and AARP told you but it's up to you to decide what to believe. Science trumps politics when it comes to health care.

[skynight]

2 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

 I won't be taking the vaccine and will have to wait a long time to be able to safely cruise again.

There is always the possibility over the next 3 years or longer that proof of vaccination could be a requirement to board the ship. The requirement could be from a cruise line itself, or might be a regulatory requirement from the boarding country or any country the ship may visit.

 

[Mary229]

Regardless of whose more correct there is no mandate to take a vaccine, there is no mandate to cruise.  Let those who are willing do so without social interference or condemnation.  Additionally this is not only the US who is researching, quickly, a vaccine. Many countries have vaccines in the final stages of study.  We Americans are very self-centered.  Read the international news to get a better understanding of what is happening. 

[pcur]

Kaiser is participating in vaccine trials, and they are including members up to 85 years old.  

 

The information I've been reading says that vaccines will be offered initially to first responders and medical personnel, AND to higher risk people.  Included in the higher risk category are older Americans.  So, senior cruisers will probably be in the "sooner" rather than "later" group of recipients.

[donaldsc]

I don't know this for sure but I would suspect that that following groups are excluded from the studies -

 

really old people

pregnant women

women who are trying to become pregnant

children

People with a whole list of preexisting conditions

Native Americans because a lot of them live in areas which are poorly served by hospitals so they are not easily accessible to be followed in the trial

 

How much of the American population is left and what does these exclusions do to the validity of the trials

 

DON

 

 

 

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

I don't know this for sure but I would suspect that that following groups are excluded from the studies -

 

really old people

pregnant women

women who are trying to become pregnant

children

People with a whole list of preexisting conditions

Native Americans because a lot of them live in areas which are poorly served by hospitals so they are not easily accessible to be followed in the trial

 

How much of the American population is left and what does these exclusions do to the validity of the trials

 

DON

 

 

 

Since I volunteered I get information sent to me and my community and my family's communities (Dallas, Houston, New Orleans) has quite a few active trials.  They are asking for volunteers from the Native American community, they are asking for volunteers from the Hispanic community, they are asking for volunteers from the Black community.  These communities are underrepresented not because of their local condition but lack of volunteers.  That said, from what I hear most of the studies are conducted in urban areas where it is easy to monitor a large group of people.  

[mina]

Hmmmm.   I would take this article with a grain of salt.  I know for a fact that people over 60 are in the Pfizer trials as both my husband and I are taking part.   Every person I see at the test site is older.  Preexisting conditions do not exclude you from taking part.  Actually, my test coordinator indicated they want people with conditions.   The only exclusion factors  during my interview was taking any type of steroid drug.  Pregnant women are also excluded. I am diabetic.  My husband has high blood pressure and a few other conditions.   Perhaps if everyone is so concerned about older cruiser representation, go to each pharma website and sign up directly.  Pfizer has extended their trials another 10k people.   Most major high risk cities are included.  Put your concerns to the test.   Literally.  

 

Also, Pfizer is specifically running a dedicated trial on the Navajo nation.   They are trying to address those that are underrepresented, by going to their locations to get volunteers.  

Edited September 30, 2020 by mina

[azbirdmom]

Hubby and I are in the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine trial and we are in the 65-70 age band.  We got our first dose almost a month ago (2 in 3 chance that we got the real thing) and were supposed to go in for dose #2 on Friday but unfortunately the trial is still on pause here in the USA.  They actually wanted higher risk folks (older and minorities especially) to join the trial that we are participating in.  So maybe some of the other drug trials tend to draw the younger / healthies but the Covid trials that I am aware of are trying to hit a good cross section of the population.

Edited October 1, 2020 by azbirdmom

[Lucky TGO]

22 minutes ago, azbirdmom said:

Hubby and I are in the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine trial and we are in the 65-70 age band.  We got our first dose almost a month ago (2 in 3 chance that we got the real thing) and were supposed to go in for dose #2 on Friday but unfortunately the trial is still on pause here in the USA.  They actually wanted higher risk folks (older and minorities especially) to join the trial that we are participating in.  So maybe some of the other drug trials tend to draw the younger / healthies but the Covid trials that I am aware of are trying to hit a good cross section of the population.

Hi azbirdmom,

I truly Admire you for volunteering for the COVID vaccine trials!! I just like to say Thank You and God Bless. 
Tony

 

 

[cruzsnooze]

The speed of the vaccine is problematic to the epidemiologists that have voiced their opinions on TV. The CDC has voiced concern.  There are some ethical issues as well.  In order to know if the vaccine is effective you must expose the trial participant to the virus you are wanting to test efficacy for.  You must also expose those in the placebo group so you can compare the rate of infection. Of the group who gets the real vaccine (not the placebo) you must make a statistical comparison of how many got infected VS not and thus come to a percent of efficacy. Who in their right mind would deliberately expose themselves to covid with no current approved treatment. If the trial participants wears a mask and practices social distance and does meticulous hand washing you don't know if it  the vaccine worked or the  person used all the mentioned protocol to avoid exposure. 

This is just a small part of what goes into clinical trials. Rushing a vaccine before all the data has been collected and studied is not safe enough for me. I suspect health care workers who understand medicine and vaccines will not want to take the vaccine before all the data is in. High risk seniors with underlying co-morbidity might also shun the vaccine for at least 6 months after it comes out to see what effect it has or hasn't. Medicine has a lot of trial and error and I wish only the best for those in the trials, they are brave people and deserve a world of thanks. 

  There is a good reason why vaccines take longer then warp speed to develop and test. This particular vaccine is close to developed but not tested . Those who want to take it should with their eyes open for side effects and a plan of action should there be serious side effects. If one person has a major adverse effect I can hear the outcry and imagine the lawsuits. Astra Zeneca said the one person who developed neurological issue's represented a huge number if it was extrapolated to the general population. 

  We are all anxious to get back to our normal routines but we must think of the consequences. We should read all we can about the issues surrounding the vaccine and make INFORMED DECISIONS.

  Civil discussions are welcome as are sharing first hand knowledge from the participants in the trials who've posted.

Edited October 1, 2020 by cruzsnooze

[Potstech]

So testing on 10's of thousands of people is rushing a vaccine? Yes some might "shun the vaccine" but many more may not. But my son works at a testing at a major facility here in Virginia and he has said there are huge numbers of people volunteering for the test. He is one of the medical lab technicians who perform the testing on the samples.  Also a friend is a nurse in Ohio who is taking the samples for a major drug company and she also says they have people of all ages and background in the vaccine testing.  All of must sign an INFORMED CONSENT form after attending an instructional class that informs them about the vaccine and the testing procedures  So your constant rejection of the whole process seems to be based on incomplete information. Apparently mostly provided by "multiple articles and AARP".