Key West Votes to Limit Cruise Ship Visits

[voyageur9]

A clear majority of Key West residents, like residents of some other popular ports, have realized that visitor spending is extremely valuable -- probably essential -- to the economy of their cities.

But like the residents of Venice and Dubrovnik, they are sick and tired of low-spending, hordes who pour out of massive cruise ships, overwhelm their pedestrian spaces, take a few selfies, perhaps buy a trinket then disappear after a few hours. They add little to the port's coffers and -- in massive numbers -- detract from the ambience and authenticity so prized by residents and visitors who linger longer.

Some places, Skagway comes to mind, now exist solely to serve the cruise masses and will be delighted if 25,000 pour ashore even on pre-paid cruiseline-arranged outings. I know Skagway from its pre-cruise port days and it would have died without its new identity as a Disneyfied gateway to the Klondike. So it had no choice.

But many places that can attract higher-spending, longer-staying, visitors will, I expect, follow Key West in seeking to restrict or ban high-volume, low-value masses. 

The sort of people who prefer private islands and gated port-side destinations owned/operated by cruise lines offer little value and much aggravation to places like Key West. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by voyageur9
typos

[Hlitner]

There has been an interesting thread elsewhere on CC where a KW local pointed out that while cruisers make up to 50% of the total visitors they only represent about 8% to the economy.  And you need to further consider that some of the 8% goes to cruise oriented "junk" shops such as numerous T-shirt places that many locals would not miss.  Personally, a KW without Diamonds International or all those T-shirt shops would encourage DW and me to extend our trips to the Keys.  

 

I believe the 3 KW anti-cruise referendums all passed with more then 60% of the vote (one got nearly 80% of the vote).  

 

So some fellow cruisers might say, "can't we all live together" and wonder why communities do not simply welcome all cruisers and land tourists.  The answer, subject to debate, is that too many cruisers ultimately drive away land-based tourists (who spend a lot more money then the cruisers).  Many folks do not want to vacation in a place that is packed with cruisers.  One can simply watch the traffic in Charlotte Amalie (St Thomas) to see the negative impact 20,000+ cruisers (on an average day) has on the traffic in a town that basically has two main streets (which are two lanes).  

 

While KW can be a charming quaint place, it is anything but when there are 3 ships and more then 10,000 cruisers flooding Duval Street.  The community is still OK with ships but simply wants to limit cruisers to no more then 1500 per day.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 So some fellow cruisers might say, "can't we all live together" and wonder why communities do not simply welcome all cruisers and land tourists.  The answer, subject to debate, is that too many cruisers ultimately drive away land-based tourists (who spend a lot more money then the cruisers).  Many folks do not want to vacation in a place that is packed with cruisers.  One can simply watch the traffic in Charlotte Amalie (St Thomas) to see the negative impact 20,000+ cruisers (on an average day) has on the traffic in a town that basically has two main streets (which are two lanes). 

St. Thomas is a PERFECT example of an island I would never consider for a resort stay in the Caribbean, same with St Maarten and Grand Cayman.  Simply too many cruise passengers and/or low-end businesses selling schlock!  I prefer to not get off the ship in ports like these as the experience is usually sub-par at best.  Were I to book a resort stay in the Caribbean it would be someplace like Antigua, Grenada, St Lucia or Dominica that are far less trodden with cruisers.
 

Cruising is my primary vacation choice but I’m increasingly sensitive to port overcrowding and am making booking decisions more strategically based on the number of ships in port and their sizes. I prefer more midsize ships with the sweet spot being about 1300-1900 passengers for me.  
 

The cruise lines only have themselves to blame as more ports enact restrictions on cruising.

Edited November 11, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[KirkNC]

St Maarten is the poster child in the Carribean for over tourism.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, KirkNC said:

St Maarten is the poster child in the Carribean for over tourism.

A very interesting island.  Prior to Hurricane Irma (2017) we spent a few 1-2 week vacations on St Martin.  We would rent (directly from the owner) a beach front Condo located about a 5 minute walk from the heart of Grand Case.  At the time, Grand Case was an amazing small village with a large assortment of French chef owned restaurants and also had the best Locally Owned Locally Operated (LOLO) market with multiple fun eating venues.  Most of the best restaurants were not open for lunch (when ships were in port) and had no interest in marketing to cruisers.   To us, the island was a haven for "foodies" with many excellent (some had been Michelin rated) chef owned venues that resulted because of the very high taxes in France.  These restauranteurs could keep their French social benefits (such as free health care) by living on the French side of St Martin but avoid the high French taxes.  One chef told us he had a Michelin 2 Star restaurant in the South of France that was booked-up months in advance.  But at the end of the year, after paying taxes and his expensive help he had very little to show for working 6 days a week.  In Grand Case he could make a hefty profit, live well on the island, and take a few weeks off every year to go back to France.  

 

Although we had a car we completely avoided Phillipsburg from Mon - Fri which were the days the island was overrun by cruise ships.  Sat and Sun were the days locals (and tourists staying on the island) would go to town to shop or snack because there were generally no or only 1 ship.  As a part time resident on the island we knew where to go (even on busy cruise ship days) where there were few or no cruisers.  Like most locals we would avoid places like Orient Beach/Bay and the airport area.   But Hurricane Irma destroyed most of Grand Case (and a good portion of the island) and it is taking a long time for the island to fully recover.

 

As bad as things were on St Maarten/St Martin the island is large enough for those in the know to escape the cruise problem.  But this is not the case on St Thomas which we think has been entirely ruined by excess cruisers (often 10s of thousands per day).  At one time Charlotte Amalie was a cute town with many excellent boutique shops.  Most are now long gone having been replaced by the likes of Diamonds International, Tanzanite International, Columbian Emeralds, Little Switzerland, etc.  Even the high end jeweler, H. Stern, fled from St Thomas since most cruisers are not shopping for quality jewels.

 

There are ongoing internal battles (on numerous islands) about whether to become big cruise ports or limit the ships.  Aruba (a favorite place of ours) has been fighting this issue for years.  If the ABC islands were to build huge cruise ports (like St Maarten and St Thomas) they would quickly attract lots of ships.  This would fill town, but many do understand it would likely be the ruin of the island. My friends who live on Aruba fear the huge ships and are part of a movement to keep them away....but the three huge cruise companies (RCI, CCL and MSC) were (prior to COVID) spreading around money in an attempt to expand cruise piers.  Folks may not realize that the large cruise companies will often put their own money into port expansion (and some nearby shopping centers).  The result is what we see in St Maarten, Panama, and a few other places.

 

Hank

 

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

At one time Charlotte Amalie was a cute town with many excellent boutique shops.  Most are now long gone having been replaced by the likes of Diamonds International, Tanzanite International, Columbian Emeralds, Little Switzerland, etc.  

 

The last time that I was in Charlotte Amalie, which was not too long ago, the alleyways still had small business owners who offered unique, interesting, and well priced items.  There was still, I felt, the "true" St. Thomas vibe that I first felt in 1970.  Outside of those areas:  it was not much different than my local Mall with stores that offered nothing that I wanted to buy.  And, if I did--A.H. Risse, Sparky's, etc.-- listening(?)--why should I pay for the privilege of buying booze at your establishment and then have the hassles of getting it home--in one piece--at what is now being charged?

 

The Frenchman's Reef Resort--a current Marriott property, I think--always seemed to me to be "just enough out of town", but with "reasonable, easy access to town" to be attractive to me.  Frequent cruise ship arrivals and departures would be easily viewed and that would be attractive to me.  

 

 

[foodsvcmgr]

Hopefully for Key West’s sake, the assessments that mass market ships are minor contributors and major detractors to their economy are accurate.

If in fact they are not, and they change their minds and invite the large cruise ships back I hope the cruise lines have the sense to pass and say “no thanks”.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The last time that I was in Charlotte Amalie, which was not too long ago, the alleyways still had small business owners who offered unique, interesting, and well priced items.  There was still, I felt, the "true" St. Thomas vibe that I first felt in 1970.  Outside of those areas:  it was not much different than my local Mall with stores that offered nothing that I wanted to buy.  And, if I did--A.H. Risse, Sparky's, etc.-- listening(?)--why should I pay for the privilege of buying booze at your eWstablishment and then have the hassles of getting it home--in one piece--at what is now being charged?

 

The Frenchman's Reef Resort--a current Marriott property, I think--always seemed to me to be "just enough out of town", but with "reasonable, easy access to town" to be attractive to me.  Frequent cruise ship arrivals and departures would be easily viewed and that would be attractive to me.  

 

 

Funny you would mention Frenchman's Reef.  When we would cruise into St Thomas and dock at the West Indian Company Dock (the one near Havensight), DW and I would usually grab a taxi over to Morningside Bay (near Frenchman's) where we could relax, snorkel, and generally avoid most of the cruisers who went to other better known beaches (i.e. Coki, Magans Bay, Sapphire, etc).  We actually had a couple (who was staying at the Marriott) curse us when they realized (from our towels) that we were off a cruise ship.  At the time I did tell my wife that "I did not blame them" for resenting our presence.  When we docked at the other area (by the old sub base) we would usually walk or taxi over to Lindburgh Bay where we would rent loungers from a small beach front motel (I suspect those at that hotel also resented our presence).  Bottom line was that I was happy on those islands as a cruiser but would never have considered going there for a week as a land tourist because of the darn cruise ships :).  And yes, I am absolutely a hypocrite.  

 

Hank

 

 

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Bottom line was that I was happy on those islands as a cruiser but would never have considered going there for a week as a land tourist because of the darn cruise ships 🙂

 

If I would choose to try a Caribbean island vacation, St. Lucia would be my first choice.  Dominica might be a second choice simply because of the beauty of the island.  It's poor infrastructure might be a deterrent in doing so.  Would need to do much research before I would book anything on either of the islands.  

[Hlitner]

30 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If I would choose to try a Caribbean island vacation, St. Lucia would be my first choice.  Dominica might be a second choice simply because of the beauty of the island.  It's poor infrastructure might be a deterrent in doing so.  Would need to do much research before I would book anything on either of the islands.  

Although we have enjoyed our visits to Dominica (especially love the snorkeling at Champagne Reef) it is not an island we would want to use for a week vacation.  As to St Lucia, there is a lot to like except when trying to drive South (towards the Pitons).  The roads leave a lot to be desired.  But the island on my short list, that we have only visited on a few cruises, is Bonaire.  We have done more then our share of snorkeling off that island and really enjoyed driving around the island in a golf cart :).  DW and thought it was a place we could easily enjoy for a week or more.  On our last visit we met an American couple (SCUBA Divers) who told us they loved the island so much they had recently purchased a home.  

 

Our basic criteria for a vacation island is that it must have a good variety of decent restaurants, some good beaches,  decent snorkeling (SCUBA is a plus), it must have a relatively low crime rate, and should have a friendly atmosphere.  St Martin was very high on our list prior to Erma, and but what happened after that storm has caused us lots of concern.    Our rental condo (in Grand Case) was destroyed by Irma and we would need to find a new place for future visits.  The looting and lawlessness (after Irma) showed me a side of some residents that was a surprise.  While bad situations can cause some folks to do desperate things, what happened on that island brought out an underlying problem that would make us think twice about returning for a few weeks.

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

As to St Lucia, there is a lot to like except when trying to drive South (towards the Pitons).  The roads leave a lot to be desired.

 

No kidding!  The roads on Dominica are in the running for being worse.  

[mamaofami]

We sailed from Ft. Lauderdale to Cuba with a stop at Key West two years ago. It rained while we were in Key West, but we had a wonderful lunch and enjoyed the city very much. I would love to go back there. We took a taxi back to the port and the driver grew up where we live now.Small world indeed.

 

Many years ago we spent a week vacationing in St. Martin in a hotel in Grand Case. We loved the food and beaches there and always said we would go back. There was a big difference between the quiet in Grand Case and the crowds in Philipsburg who were all looking for a bargain camera.

[Aquahound]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:37 AM, ew101 said:

I am scratching my head here- does this ban eliminate essentially all the ships from all the mass market lines?  Even at reduced capacity?   On each of our three cruise port vists we have maybe spent $40 each.  Which is not a lot.   But the place is lovely.  

 

RCI's Empress of the Seas and HAL's remaining small ships could visit Key West with only a minimal reduction in ship capacity.  

[FredT]

On 11/11/2020 at 10:03 AM, Hlitner said:

Most are now long gone having been replaced by the likes of Diamonds International, Tanzanite International, Columbian Emeralds, Little Switzerland, etc. 

Little Switzerland has been around since I was a child wandering the streets back in the 60's.   At that time it was THE place to find hand blown glass (Something hat has always fascinated me.)   Having said THAT, I agree with you on most of your post, concerning town.   A person renting (Or owning) a house in the hills though still experiences one of the great places on earth.  

 

On 11/11/2020 at 7:28 PM, rkacruiser said:

The last time that I was in Charlotte Amalie, which was not too long ago, the alleyways still had small business owners who offered unique, interesting, and well priced items.  There was still, I felt, the "true" St. Thomas vibe that I first felt in 1970. 

On this I totally agree.  When we visit (The last time in 2018) we spend a few hours zig zagging the alleyways and always have a relaxed interesting time.  

[Hlitner]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:37 PM, ew101 said:

I am scratching my head here- does this ban eliminate essentially all the ships from all the mass market lines?  Even at reduced capacity?   On each of our three cruise port vists we have maybe spent $40 each.  Which is not a lot.   But the place is lovely.  

If the three passed referendums are ultimately ruled enforceable by the courts it will eliminate all the mass market ships from KW.  Only ships with fewer then 1300 passengers would be allowed to visit this port.    Your post actually says more then you intended as to why.  You mentioned spending about $40 in each port and, for Key West, this is chump change compared to what those of us who vacation i the Keys spend on an average day.  We will be in Key West early next month for a few days (we routinely vacation in that city).  Our small hotel (which is locally owned and operated) costs $300-$400 a day (per couple) depending on the suite.  We generally eat breakfast and dinner out and we prefer decent restaurants so our daily food budget would be about $200 per day.  Under normal circumstances we often spend a couple of evening hours at a local bar/nightclub (this might change because of COVID) and that normally will cost us $50 - $100.  So, if you add this up we are talking about an average of $600 per day spent in the city.    And keep in mind that nearly all of our money is being spent at locally owned/operated places.  Many of the most popular haunts that attract cruisers are not locally owned.  Just as an example consider Diamonds International which is owned by a New York Jeweler/Businessman (ironically he has no stores in NYC).  Many of the DI managers and some employees actually float between various locations (i.e. spend their summer working in Alaska and winters in Key West or the Caribbean).  

 

We have been cruising (extensively) all over the world for more then 40 years.  Since we are independent travelers we seldom take tours and often mix with locals at various places.  When you get to know some locals (especially business owners) in far flung ports you hear the same kind of things about cruisers.  There are good things but also bad.  The one complaint we hear the most has to do with the spending habits of cruisers (i.e. only spending $40).  Restaurant owners (we favor fine dining) tell us that very few cruisers dine in their places.  In Puerto Vallarta where we live during the winter, many of our favorite restaurants do not even open for lunch (when there are often thousands of cruisers in town) because the cruisers do not want to take the time or spend the money for a decent meal.  It is the same on St Maarten where (prior to the awful hurricane) most of the best restaurants in Grand Case did not bother to open for lunch because cruisers would rather be at the very commercial Orient Bay then sitting in a world-class restaurant for a 2 hour lunch.  It is the same with shops/boutiques.  The cruise lines get paid to promote certain cruise oriented shops but ignore the smaller locally owned shops and boutiques.  Many cruisers follow these recommendations (they do not know better and trust the port lecturers onboard) and do not give a lot of financial support to local businesses.  In many ports a majority of cruisers take cruise line excursions which benefit a single tour operator (sometimes local and sometimes not) with little money getting into the hands of the smaller local businesses.  

 

All that I mentioned impacts the feeling that locals have towards cruisers and the ships.  Even I was surprised that the KW referendums each got over 60% of the vote with the environmental one getting about 80%.  Folks here on CC (we are all cruise lovers) can spin this anyway they want, but the public sentiment is clear!   We have heard much worse from some friends who live on St Thomas where many locals truly HATE cruise ships and cruisers.  They will privately talk about how the cruise ships have ruined their island, caused higher levels of crime (not sure I understand this connection), and have driven many of the cute locally owned merchants out of business or into back alleys.  They cannot compete with outside interests who specialize in marketing to cruisers.   When we vacationed in St Thomas over thirty years ago it was the place to go if you wanted to shop for linens, tableclothes, napkins, etc.  The main street in Charlotte Amalie had over a dozen linen merchants who carried decent quality at amazing prices.  Nearly all these places are gone because they cannot compete with Diamonds International, Tanzanite International, etc.  in terms of paying rent.  Many small local eating establishments have also been driven out (or pushed back to small alleys) by increasing rents.  

 

Cruisers can help themselves and the ports.  Stop going to the cruise oriented stores and look to support smaller local establishments.  Take some time and eat a decent lunch paying attention to local specialties.  Try to get a rapport with locals and do your best to encourage them to appreciate cruisers.  But little of this happens when folks take those overpriced excursions!

 

Hank

[Mary229]

It has been a while since I visited this thread.  I am neutral but understand the sentiment of the locals.  Here is a question.   I know the state probably invested a lot of money in developing cruise port terminals, those are not free or cheap.  I wonder what the state of Florida's position on this move is.  Is it legal?  Did the county and city authorities sign away the rights to control when they accepted the jobs and funding that came with the infrastructure development?

[Aquahound]

34 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

It has been a while since I visited this thread.  I am neutral but understand the sentiment of the locals.  Here is a question.   I know the state probably invested a lot of money in developing cruise port terminals, those are not free or cheap.  I wonder what the state of Florida's position on this move is.  Is it legal?  Did the county and city authorities sign away the rights to control when they accepted the jobs and funding that came with the infrastructure development?

 

Of the 3 piers in KW, one is owned by the Navy, and another is owned by Margaritaville Resort.  The third and smallest pier (Mallory) is the only one owned by the city.  I'm not sure how much the state was tapped in the initial development and further upkeep of that pier.  I'd guess minimal.  

[rkacruiser]

10 hours ago, FredT said:

On this I totally agree.  When we visit (The last time in 2018) we spend a few hours zig zagging the alleyways and always have a relaxed interesting time. 

 

Over the years, I have purchased many unique items from these merchants located in the alleyways.  When I have given them as gifts (which is why I purchased them), they have been more appreciated than some trinket I might have bought at a big box store.  

[HamOp]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Over the years, I have purchased many unique items from these merchants located in the alleyways.  When I have given them as gifts (which is why I purchased them), they have been more appreciated than some trinket I might have bought at a big box store.  

Places like this?

Or This?

 

 

 

[FredT]

11 hours ago, HamOp said:

Places like this?

Or This?

 

No.... The little tight alleyways running from the waterfront to the "main" drag.  (I think it's called Dronneninesgard or something like that.  These are "real" stores, (Many Artist shops, many very upscale)  with AC and everything, but definitely NOT chains or your "Diamond Internationals"..... 

 

 

[kevingastreich]

Would Sloppy Joe's exist without tourists?

[iancal]

We have visited once on a cruise ship.   Once was enough, never again.

 

We did return on a land trip.  No ships that day.  It was a far, far better experience.

 

For us, a Key West stop on a cruise ship is something worth staying on board for and enjoying a day poolside.

[Tampa Girl]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:43 PM, ldlewis45 said:

Good for Key West.  I'll admit, I never saw the point of spending over $1000 for a cruise that stops in Florida, of all places.  When I lived in Florida, I always told people, "I live in Florida, why in God's name would I spend money to take a cruise that stops here?  The whole point of taking a cruise is to get away!"  But, that's also why I've never taken a New England cruise or a California coast cruise.  I've never really seen the point, since I take cruises to visit locations to which I can't drive (Alaska, Europe, Caribbean, etc.). 

 

I generally agree with you.  However, at least for me, Key West is special.  Further, it is not easy to get to and it might as well be in another state.  It is a long drive from Tampa, for instance. Actually, it is sort of another state.   It is unique.  I thoroughly enjoyed our cruises stopping in KW and will be disappointed if we cannot repeat this pleasure.  

[Aquahound]

5 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Would Sloppy Joe's exist without tourists?

 

Without cruise ship tourists?  Absolutely.  

 

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, HamOp said:

Places like this?

 

7 hours ago, FredT said:

 

 

Neither of you must not have visited the alleyways of Charlotte Amalie.  They are not like the photos posted whatsoever!