Key West Votes to Limit Number of Cruise Passengers and Ship Size

[evandbob]

Over tourism can destroy any location, and since it is home to the locals who live there they can call the shots and make the rules (along with other govt bureaucracies), whether it's Barcelona, Venice, Glacier Bay,.  or KW.

 

Tourists will still come via car or plane, so a few T Shirt and tchotchke shops change their merchandise or business slant to be viable in the new managed tourist economy.  Bars will still sell booze and food, but the massive clean up effort needed after each cruise ship departs will no longer be necessary.  The stress on local resources like water and clean air will be relieved.

 

The voters who live there can have a voice in how their home is managed - I think that is called democracy, not communism!

[BlerkOne]

39 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Over tourism can destroy any location, and since it is home to the locals who live there they can call the shots and make the rules (along with other govt bureaucracies), whether it's Barcelona, Venice, Glacier Bay,.  or KW.

 

Tourists will still come via car or plane, so a few T Shirt and tchotchke shops change their merchandise or business slant to be viable in the new managed tourist economy.  Bars will still sell booze and food, but the massive clean up effort needed after each cruise ship departs will no longer be necessary.  The stress on local resources like water and clean air will be relieved.

 

The voters who live there can have a voice in how their home is managed - I think that is called democracy, not communism!

Key West is nothing like it used to be before condos/timeshares and more moved it. It was ruined a long time ago. I won't miss it.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, evandbob said:

Over tourism can destroy any location, and since it is home to the locals who live there they can call the shots and make the rules (along with other govt bureaucracies), whether it's Barcelona, Venice, Glacier Bay,.  or KW.

...

 

I chuckled to myself reading this. Most of the current residents of Key West first came as tourists. 🙂

[firefly333]

9 hours ago, evandbob said:

Over tourism can destroy any location, and since it is home to the locals who live there they can call the shots and make the rules (along with other govt bureaucracies), whether it's Barcelona, Venice, Glacier Bay,.  or KW.

 

Tourists will still come via car or plane, so a few T Shirt and tchotchke shops change their merchandise or business slant to be viable in the new managed tourist economy.  Bars will still sell booze and food, but the massive clean up effort needed after each cruise ship departs will no longer be necessary.  The stress on local resources like water and clean air will be relieved.

 

The voters who live there can have a voice in how their home is managed - I think that is called democracy, not communism!

And someone mentioned the state owns the ports, not the city, so it will probably go to the courts.

 

They voted on something they dont own or actually control. This vote just makes their wishes known.

[UAV-Av80R]

I have always loved visiting Key West, but Hey......if they don't want my business or money, then that's their right. I'll be happy to leave them alone and spend my money elsewhere. I'll be sure to avoid them as destination for land or sea. There are plenty of other cool destinations that want my business.

[Tapi]

I read the comment about the ports being owned by state. But I was specifically thinking about the Navy Pier. Is that pier technically beyond local or state control? Would a mandate prevent cruise ships from docking at the Navy Pier as they currently do? 

[ProgRockCruiser]

18 hours ago, Joebucks said:

I laugh at all of the people who say this won't impact the businesses. Have any of you been on a cruise before? Ever been by the port and see people buying loads of souvenirs, food, drinks, etc? Ask any business if they wouldn't want more people entering on a daily basis. I feel bad for them, who are already hurting due to COVID.

 

This was done by the elites. They simply don't want the "riff raff" of cruisers in Key West. Many people cannot afford to fly into or stay there, so this was their only avenue. Limiting to 1500 guest capacity ships only means they still want those high end cruisers in there.

The official numbers supposedly say it will remove about 7% of the revenue derived from tourism.

 

How much will it reduce associated costs borne by the city/community?  Unknown to me.  May be zero.

 

If the "elites" managed to outvote the rest of the KW population, then it is just a further "gentrification" of an urban (if you can call it that) area, which is happening in a lot of places.  People with money find a place they like, push out the less-wealthy in every overt and covert way they can, and make it their own.  It's too bad, but has been happening for centuries/millennia.  I don't like it, but I cannot deny it happens, and it is nigh-impossible to stop.  Big Money rules.

[Joebucks]

29 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The official numbers supposedly say it will remove about 7% of the revenue derived from tourism.

 

How much will it reduce associated costs borne by the city/community?  Unknown to me.  May be zero.

 

If the "elites" managed to outvote the rest of the KW population, then it is just a further "gentrification" of an urban (if you can call it that) area, which is happening in a lot of places.  People with money find a place they like, push out the less-wealthy in every overt and covert way they can, and make it their own.  It's too bad, but has been happening for centuries/millennia.  I don't like it, but I cannot deny it happens, and it is nigh-impossible to stop.  Big Money rules.

 

I know the way I worded it may have made some insinuations, but I'm not one of those trying to fight gentrification. I think some people need to understand that as populations continue to grow, high-demand locations still have the same, limited, space. It is asinine to think that prices don't disproportionately rise in those areas. 

 

As far as the 7% revenue figure. These kinds of fuzzy math projections can be biased, misleading, miss certain variables, and can also fluctuate by business. Case in point, it doesn't factor in planes or hotels. Cruisers spend 50% more per hour during their time there than any other group. They also spend proportionately more on restaurants, beverage, retail, and recreation. When I last cruised to Key West, I bought a cigar, took a tour, my girlfriend purchased a shirt, and we went to the aquarium. Not that my example is any kind of evidence of what most cruisers do, but we know for a fact we were joined by other cruisers in many of these purchases. Regardless, this is absolutely money lost across the board. Taxes, shopping, etc. Key West will still survive. Some will be hurt. The market will adjust.

 

There is an art to making political change happen. If you think someone woke up one day and said "hey, I found out a way to keep our waters cleaner!" then you have a lot to learn. I stayed in Key West again for a few days, two weeks ago. While Key West isn't the most sophisticated place in the world, it is a different market than what cruisers bring. Environmentally friendly is a hot political buzzword at the moment. Many corporations use that as a way to cut costs, supplies, etc. Not that it's a bad thing. Key West is no oasis of nature though.  No one will convince me that most locals just don't want to see the streets flooded with a bunch of undesirables. I would wager that those in the purchasing categories like restaurants, beverage, retail, and recreation would the ones for it, and the rest are mostly against it. 

[BlerkOne]

16 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I chuckled to myself reading this. Most of the current residents of Key West first came as tourists. 🙂

 

I can see a parallel to what the Native Americans must think.

[PhillyFan33579]

13 hours ago, UAV-Av80R said:

I have always loved visiting Key West, but Hey......if they don't want my business or money, then that's their right. I'll be happy to leave them alone and spend my money elsewhere. I'll be sure to avoid them as destination for land or sea. There are plenty of other cool destinations that want my business.

That’s exactly how I feel. We live in Florida and based on the current situation, we have no plans to go to Key West again by any means. There are a lot of other great places to visit in the Keys and all of them are a shorter drive by car. 

[4spring]

Stupid question but what does HMC stand for?  

 

[Saint Greg]

18 minutes ago, 4spring said:

Stupid question but what does HMC stand for?  

 

 

Half Moon Cay

 

https://www.carnival.com/cruise-to/bahamas-cruises/half-moon-cay-cruises.aspx

 

[firefly333]

On 11/4/2020 at 3:05 PM, broberts said:

 

Up our way landlords pay property taxes which are presumably included in the rent. I've yet to meet a landlord that does not include all costs in the rental amount. In other words renters also pay "pay the piper".

Lol oddly enough this was on our news tonight saying its deceptive. A proposed new bond is put on the ballot, and now its come up that it's not labelled as a tax increase, just says school bond, and who isnt for helping schools. We have a lot of illegals here in texas and influx from calif. Then the other side says it's not necessarily tied to a specific tax increase. So he argues it shouldn't me labelled as one. The other side says people dont know its tied to property taxes. (We dont have a state income tax so the only real way is to increase property taxes). 

 

Anyway, they said voting on a bond for schools, not everyone knows where the money comes from. That its misleading not saying it's a tax increase. There are people who dont know.

 

I agree with the view of the poster who said those whose businesses are affected were pro keeping key west as a regular port open. Those whose incomes not affected, just their quality of life, were for closing key west to large cruiselines. Right now environmental pushes are the norm. 

[ontheweb]

24 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Lol oddly enough this was on our news tonight saying its deceptive. A proposed new bond is put on the ballot, and now its come up that it's not labelled as a tax increase, just says school bond, and who isnt for helping schools. We have a lot of illegals here in texas and influx from calif. Then the other side says it's not necessarily tied to a specific tax increase. So he argues it shouldn't me labelled as one. The other side says people dont know its tied to property taxes. (We dont have a state income tax so the only real way is to increase property taxes). 

 

Anyway, they said voting on a bond for schools, not everyone knows where the money comes from. That its misleading not saying it's a tax increase. There are people who dont know.

 

I agree with the view of the poster who said those whose businesses are affected were pro keeping key west as a regular port open. Those whose incomes not affected, just their quality of life, were for closing key west to large cruiselines. Right now environmental pushes are the norm. 

I was on a school board for 5 years. During that time we had a capital project that built a new middle school and made improvements to our other schools. The information for voters to vote on the bond issue included what it would cost as a tax increase. I find it hard to believe that it is not done that way everywhere.

[firefly333]

27 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I was on a school board for 5 years. During that time we had a capital project that built a new middle school and made improvements to our other schools. The information for voters to vote on the bond issue included what it would cost as a tax increase. I find it hard to believe that it is not done that way everywhere.

Dallas lost 3 schools to tornadoes last year that have to be rebuilt. Around me I still see blue traps on roofs. 

 

My pt was in some places where there is a state income tax, that might be affected. Here it's only property taxes. Texas doesnt have a state income tax. Property values skyrocketed 250% around here so some of the extra property taxes was built in, but our governor stepped in saying 5% max a year allowed, as some elderly were losing their houses as property taxes were rising say 18% a year. 

 

Covid and remote learning plus 3 schools to be rebuilt. ..

 

We will see how key west handles the loss of income. Many here say oh they can afford it. I also feel bad for all the ports. I know cozumel uses port fees to house homeless and other good things. Covid has changed some places forever.

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I was on a school board for 5 years. During that time we had a capital project that built a new middle school and made improvements to our other schools. The information for voters to vote on the bond issue included what it would cost as a tax increase. I find it hard to believe that it is not done that way everywhere.

 

People are a lot more generous for new bills and spending when they believe other people will be paying for noble causes.

[BlerkOne]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:48 PM, broberts said:

 

I chuckled to myself reading this. Most of the current residents of Key West first came as tourists. 🙂

 

As I understand it, the Florida Keys were originally inhabited by Calusa and Tequesta Indians.

[Tapi]

9 hours ago, fyree39 said:

The Department of Navy controls the pier and the base it's attached to. It is considered federal property and follows federal jurisdiction.

So if it’s considered federal jurisdiction, could a mandate from the City of Key West have any effect on who uses the Navy Pier? 

[ontheweb]

27 minutes ago, Tapi said:

So if it’s considered federal jurisdiction, could a mandate from the City of Key West have any effect on who uses the Navy Pier? 

Very likely a question heading to the courts to decided. 

[evandbob]

For those who absolutely must visit KW on a ship, here's a go-around:  Come down to Ft Myers Beach and take the Key West fast shuttle. You'll arrive in about 3 hours and can stay overnight (or more) before you return.

 

https://www.keywestexpress.net/?utm_source=Listing&utm_medium=KW&utm_campaign=GMB

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, evandbob said:

For those who absolutely must visit KW on a ship, here's a go-around:  Come down to Ft Myers Beach and take the Key West fast shuttle. You'll arrive in about 3 hours and can stay overnight (or more) before you return.

 

https://www.keywestexpress.net/?utm_source=Listing&utm_medium=KW&utm_campaign=GMB

 

I see that as only an alternative to driving there. Perhaps banning cars will be the next phase.

[simplelife]

On 11/4/2020 at 3:41 AM, Roger88 said:

These new rules wont help. How are they going to make their already trillion dollar ships smaller? What a joke. Limiting a number of passangers on board? well, I am afraid they will have to sell a few of their ships that dont meet the criteria. Each and every ship is designed to take a certain amount of passangers to avoit losing profit 

They are not expecting ships to limit passengers on board. they are expecting that only small ships will  dock there

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, simplelife said:

They are not expecting ships to limit passengers on board. they are expecting that only small ships will  dock there

 

and I guess hoping it is more than just ferries.

[CJHAN]

On 11/4/2020 at 6:03 AM, beerman2 said:

Has nothing to do with what the cruise lines want and everything to do what KW wants. If the cruise lines want to continue to go to KW they will have to use smaller ships. 

 

It's all about limiting the number of people , not the trillion dollar ships.

Give it a couple of years and see how the revenue works out , money talks.

 

and if/when the business owners start feeling the money crunch they will change again.

KW gets more then enough revenue without cruise ships and without the environmental devastation to that very sensitive area that comes with it. 
Don’t get me wrong I’m a cruiser through and through but I completely understand their issues and their goals with  this. Good for them.

[Roz]

16 minutes ago, CJHAN said:

KW gets more then enough revenue without cruise ships and without the environmental devastation to that very sensitive area that comes with it. 
Don’t get me wrong I’m a cruiser through and through but I completely understand their issues and their goals with  this. Good for them.

 

Couldn't any cruise port say the same thing?