Will vaccines now be required?

[emmas gran]

Vaccines ---Pfizer has been approved in UK and they will start rolling out next week HURRAY

 

2 injections ,  3weeks apart

 

Liz

Edited December 2, 2020 by emmas gran
addition

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, nocl said:

Except  the poster of the comment, that I responded to was Pinboy not you

nocl, pinboy, LGW59 there are many good posts from all of you on these CC boards IMO.  But I also can see that even very good posters can sometimes get caught up in the web being spun by a troll.  I have just used my Ignore button with this one.

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

T cells are only part of the story. The same has not been proven with antibody response. Without both parts of the immune system fighting Covid 19, you do not have the immunity needed. Only 5 percent have shown the appropriate antibody response to Covid. That is far from herd immunity.

larry_s_taco,  you are more than welcome to join us on this thread below if you would like to discuss some science of vaccines, COVID, etc.  

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2755191-are-vaccines-the-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel/page/60/

 

[TeeRick]

This is what was recommended by the CDC panel that met yesterday in the US on who gets the vaccine initially.  But in the US this is actually a non-binding recommendation.  It is actually still up to the individual states unfortunately IMO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/covid-vaccine-cdc-panel-says-health-workers-nursing-homes-will-get-vaccine-first.html?__twitter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal

[Ride-The-Waves]

Vaccination against COVID-19 or its latest strain will be a requirement to cruise.  Those who don't have a vaccination, now called "zombies," will not be permitted on board.  Period!  And its possible that, like "common" flu, annual vaccination updates will be required.  Countries to they today and it was prevalent around the world post WWII - requiring proof of selected prophylaxis to enter.  

[TeeRick]

In the very unlikely event that some cruise lines let passengers board without a vaccine, the ports and country entry points and airlines and airports might in fact require vaccination proof.  We will be living in a very cautious world the next few years.  Let's not fight it- just get vaccinated for all of our sakes!

[Pinboy]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Let's not fight it- just get vaccinated for all of our sakes!

I couldn't agree more with your statement above. 

( From a previous post , I'm not sure if I am on your Ignore list ).

 

 

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, Pinboy said:

I couldn't agree more with your statement above. 

( From a previous post , I'm not sure if I am on your Ignore list ).

 

 

Pinboy I would never ignore you!

[HaveWeMetYet]

UK just announced vaccination will not be mandatory. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

40 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

In the very unlikely event that some cruise lines let passengers board without a vaccine, the ports and country entry points and airlines and airports might in fact require vaccination proof.  We will be living in a very cautious world the next few years.  Let's not fight it- just get vaccinated for all of our sakes!

For those posters who keep dreaming up more and more "what if" or "possible" scenarios I share two facts.

#1 - My DW and I travel with a 8" tall moose.  He was given a Zenith loyalty card by Celebrity and will not require a COVID vaccination.

#2 - TeeRick is correct that it is time to put several posters on ignore.  If one wants to travel, proof of vaccination will be required.  Our antivaxxers will be able to choose to not get vaccinated.  Those choices will have consequences limiting their ability to travel.

[Arizona Wildcat]

21 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

UK just announced vaccination will not be mandatory. 

True.  Same in the US . . . but employers, airlines and others can mandate a vaccination for workplace safety.

One local defense contractor that employs some thousands said when available employees will have 3 choices.

Proof of vaccination via a CDC or WHO card.

Working from home

Wearing an approved mask at ALL times when on company property.  The press release stated this would not be allowed for workers in areas where it could impede communication like assembly lines.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Arizona Wildcat

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

True.  Same in the US . . . but employers, airlines and others can mandate a vaccination for workplace safety.

More from the UK (MHRA). 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-medicines-regulator-gives-approval-for-first-uk-covid-19-vaccine

 

[yorky]

47 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

UK just announced vaccination will not be mandatory. 

It was never going to be mandatory in the UK, not the way we work. I would imagine those not wanting the vaccine will just have some form of limitation on travel and leisure. That may include cruising which is their choice in my view. We will be getting it as soon as but I don’t believe we should demand it of others. We’ve had loss in our family and what could be lifelong conditions from catching it but it’s not my body. I know people will state these individuals are putting others at risk but I still believe it should be a personal choice.

Edited December 2, 2020 by yorky

[yorky]

1 minute ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

As always money will do the talking.  It's a business decision not a public health decision.

 

Does anyone genuinely think that pubs, clubs and restaurants will want to start mandating vaccines?  Errrr nope.  The loss of business that would result in would be catastrophic.   It will be the same for airlines and cruise ships.

 

People are not refusing to fly or cruise because of people not being vaccinated.

 

They are refusing to do so because they want Covid to be treated as just another virus like Flu.

They are refusing because of all the draconian measures like mask wearing and social distancing and endless uncomfortable testing.   Some have nevertheless hopped on board ships despite those measures but it's been a token handful of cruises with very limited duration.

 

Covid was downgraded to no longer be an HCID (High consequence infectious disease) the very week BEFORE the first lockdown on 19th March.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

 

We simply have to get to a point where we treat it just like Flu.   Where we accept that like so many viruses and illnesses it routinely kills a proportion of people every year who are weak and have underlying health conditions and that just like other viruses and illnesses it leaves some people with residual longer term issues.    Those who are worried about such things can go and get Flu vaccines, Pneumonia vaccines, Shingles vaccines and now Covid vaccines and god knows how many more vaccines that will undoubtedly appear in the future.   The rest of society just gets on with life.  That's how it has to be.  Herd immunity will enable that to happen and we need to achieve it as quickly as possible if indeed we have not already achieved it.

 

This whole schtick by a relative minority of older people who want a return to WW2 style

 

"Ihre papiere, bitte"

 

is rather sad and out-dated imo

 

Out of interest have you lost any of your close family to Covid ?

[emmas gran]

Yorky please be aware that some people posting seem to want the argument ,  a couple like us from UK

 

Liz

[verizon]

On 11/28/2020 at 4:05 PM, Diamond lover said:

Qantas Airlines has announced that in order to board one of their flights in the future, every passenger MUST have been vaccinated against Covid19.  Word in the air (hahaha as opposed to word on the street....I amuse myself) is that several airlines plan to follow suit.  This really makes the world of anti-vaxers much smaller.

 

 Do you think Cruise lines will enforce this as well?  If you want on board, you have to show proof of vaccination?

That will; be a very WELCOME news.

NO vaccine No cruise for you.

Edited December 2, 2020 by verizon

[yorky]

31 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

The question is moot

 

I don't allow emotional rhetoric to get in the way of objective analysis of facts

 

I lost my FIL to Parkinsons, other friends to cancer and all manner of other things.

 

None of it remotely sways my perception of how few people those things kill in relation to the total population.

 

I don't base my vaccination decisions on whether a friend or family member has died from a given virus or disease.  I do the research of what matters.   Efficacy rate, list of ingredients, side effects, chances of getting a disease, chances of dying from a disease.

 

Over the past year I have seen many people on forums bring in emotional content of disparate anecdotal cases to try and support an argument.  It doesn't work.  All the deaths have been tragic, but they don't change the facts which are that 99% of people survive Covid.

 

I only ask because having spoken to a few people their opinion on Covid has changed dramatically from before losing someone close to it actually happening. 

[yorky]

40 minutes ago, emmas gran said:

Yorky please be aware that some people posting seem to want the argument ,  a couple like us from UK

 

Liz

I guess it’s the nature of the online beast. I’m personally not interested in trying to influence anyone else any more than they will influence me. If you don’t want the vaccine don’t take it, individual decision and risk. We will be taking it so hopefully we won’t be effected directly by someone who has not taken it and becomes ill. Can’t really do any more than that.

[emmas gran]

5 minutes ago, yorky said:

I guess it’s the nature of the online beast. I’m personally not interested in trying to influence anyone else any more than they will influence me. If you don’t want the vaccine don’t take it, individual decision and risk. We will be taking it so hopefully we won’t be effected directly by someone who has not taken it and becomes ill. Can’t really do any more than that.

Exactly how we feel I would be first in the queue if possible 
Liz

Edited December 2, 2020 by emmas gran

[Goodtime Cruizin]

4 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

So tell me please, what happens if/when the person who tests positive for Covid is someone who has been vaccinated?    Your suggestion is a total and utter nonsense.  You can not sue someone for getting a virus.  If that were the case lots of cruisers could and would have sued people spreading Flu and Norovirus for years and likely some will have suffered the tragedy of the death of a vulnerable loved one simply because others on a cruise happened to have Flu or another bug.

 

Your preposterous notion would also have to prove that vaccine derived immunity is somehow stronger or better than naturally gained immunity which I guarantee you will have a very difficult time doing. 

 

The cruise lines will rightly be extremely concerned about having and following the correct protocols for dealing with on-board cases of Covid or indeed any other virus.   I would think that this whole pandemic will have been a wake-up call for them on a more general basis rather just being focused on Covid.    They will always have to very rigidly adhere to the protocols mandated by the world health authorities.    The emphasis will be on preventing any Covid infected people boarding the ship and swiftly and properly dealing with any cases that do arise during the voyage  (which will continue to happen).

 

It has to be said that your various posts suggest you are not very confident in the vaccines.  You intend to get vaccinated yourself but are pre-occupied about what everyone else does which if you believe you are protected, makes little sense.

 

Get vaxed up and settle down. I don't want you or anyone else on a ship w/o a vax because you aren't worthy of screwing up my play time. Stopping a cruise ship &  turning around, or not being able to get off the ship to enjoy a port is whast I care about. If you chose to not get a vax, well so be it. Stupid is as stupid does. Don't screw up my vacation Mr. Anti-vaxer. Stay home, wash our hands every 20 mins, wear your damn mask, or hell get sick w/ covid for all I care. That's your choice. Just stay off the ship(s). 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

While the state csn not mandate that you wear a mask on private property, a business can. For those that think a business casn not mandate a vaccine, you're either trolling this thread or just flat out ignorant on the subject. It is NOT a discrimination for a business to tell an individual that they aren't allowed if they do not, can not, will not follow the rules that are established for EVERYONE. Grow up... know it all. 

 

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 hours ago, yorky said:

I guess it’s the nature of the online beast. I’m personally not interested in trying to influence anyone else any more than they will influence me. If you don’t want the vaccine don’t take it, individual decision and risk. We will be taking it so hopefully we won’t be effected directly by someone who has not taken it and becomes ill. Can’t really do any more than that.

There are some that argue simply to disagree.  It is easy to find "research" that says pretty much anything.

It is a personal choice in the US to seek any type of medical treatment if you are an adult.  Those who choose not to get a vaccination will as said find various places closed to them.  Businesses - from government, sports on all levels and schools to public travel of all modes and employers will balance the ability to accommodate non vaxxers versus the cost of a COVID outbreak when making policy choices.

The penalty to the cruiseline in providing private transport home is significant. 

[terrydtx]

33 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

While the state csn not mandate that you wear a mask on private property, a business can. For those that think a business casn not mandate a vaccine, you're either trolling this thread or just flat out ignorant on the subject. It is NOT a discrimination for a business to tell an individual that they aren't allowed if they do not, can not, will not follow the rules that are established for EVERYONE. Grow up... know it all. 

 

Good point made here, its like any restaurant saying "No shirts or shoes, no service", which is perfectly within their right to require, if it is applied to all patrons without exception.

[yorky]

13 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Good point made here, its like any restaurant saying "No shirts or shoes, no service", which is perfectly within their right to require, if it is applied to all patrons without exception.

I do wonder how the cruise lines will deal with it, not a problem for us as we will be vaccinated but potentially a problem for some.

[kirtihk]

On 11/29/2020 at 5:17 PM, phoenix_dream said:

How many cruise sailings do you know of that have been halted and left to flounder at sea because of a flu outbreak onboard?

0.  Why?  It's due to the fact that no one cared (and I don't mean from the cruise lines, but rather the rest of the world).  The end.

 

PS. I've been on a few cruises where a lot of people got very ill, and nothing happened in terms of awareness of any virus presence.  On one 14-night cruise around 1/5 of passengers coughed profoundly (and even choking from that cough) non-stopped starting around day 4 and gradually by end of that cruise a number was closer to 2/3 (I overheard a number of people complaining about having fever, too).  One couldn't hear performers during shows in the theater because of those coughs.