Thoughts about cruising now with so much virus around- why or why not?

[4774Papa]

16 hours ago, dani negreanu said:

 

I've got my first dose of Pfizer, and will get the 2nd one in 2 weeks.

 

Israel is on the forefront re: the amount of vaccines administered already, but it does not do me any good, if Italy and all Europe are so slow in delivery the vaccines (I have a cruise out of Barcelona on Apex end of Sept. 21).

 

 

Dani,

I visited your wonderful country in 1985.   My wife hasn't been to Israel and we are planning a visit in the next couple of years.  Stay safe.

[4774Papa]

7 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

The simple fact is the entire country should be in lockdown right now as other countries in Europe have been doing when they get a surge to help mitigate spread. Hopefully the new administration implements that but even if they do they will face massive resistance from a portion of the population who is massively ignorant and places insignificant things like getting their hair styled or going to Disney World over saving people’s lives. For some people to even consider wanting to hop on a cruise ship while we are having around 250,000 new infections and 4,000 deaths per day is a mindset that I just find incomprehensible.

Respectfully disagree on TOTAL lockdowns.   I am not minimizing the COVID-19 risks, but one has to balance the damage to public health and the economy from the blanket lockdowns.  Also, what is good for some areas is unnecessary for others.   Florida has avoided the total lockdowns and done better than places like California that have done so.   It is important to protect the elderly, especially in nursing homes and those with serious health issues.  To shut down schools does serious harm to students, especially those in the early grades that come from poorer backgrounds.  Since, young people without co-morbidities rarely are harmed by the virus, shutting down schools is a mistake.  It is smart to avoid large gatherings, but even college football has allowed some fans in the stands, socially distanced.

[TeeRick]

8 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

The simple fact is the entire country should be in lockdown right now as other countries in Europe have been doing when they get a surge to help mitigate spread. Hopefully the new administration implements that but even if they do they will face massive resistance from a portion of the population who is massively ignorant and places insignificant things like getting their hair styled or going to Disney World over saving people’s lives. For some people to even consider wanting to hop on a cruise ship while we are having around 250,000 new infections and 4,000 deaths per day is a mindset that I just find incomprehensible.

You might be right but only a complete and strict lockdown would be effective.  Not happening in the US.  Federal mandates over the states will not happen. We have seen and continue to see the high variability in the state responses.  Even under a new administration nothing will change this. Lockdowns are pretty useless since there are so many exceptions.  Partial lockdowns even in Europe and elsewhere are only temporarily effective.  Then they are eased and the virus comes roaring back.  Only getting the vaccine out asap will change the situation.

https://www.ft.com/content/3292fc38-7945-4d7e-b8ed-582146ebe782

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, Fouremco said:

There's a world of difference between life aboard and life ashore for many (most?) of us. In a typical week, DW and I might each make a couple of trips to buy groceries, pick up prescription renewals at the pharmacy, etc.. Our total exposure time to other people in the course of a week might be an hour or two, during which we maintain distance, wear masks and use sanitizer until we can get home and wash our hands. Now, try doing that on a cruise ship! We would be exposed to other people more in a single day than we would in a month at home. Thanks, but "No thanks!" 

I very much understand and agree,  DW and I mostly stay at home and venture out for the same reasons as you.  The point of my post was that the situation has completely changed worldwide since early March.  The numbers of infected or previously infected people walking around are staggering now.  So I am asking my "thought" question from a numbers perspective. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by TeeRick

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I very much understand and agree,  DW and I mostly stay at home and venture out for the same reasons as you.  The point of my post was that the situation has completely changed worldwide since early March.  The numbers of infected or previously infected people walking around are staggering now.  So I am asking my "thought" question from a numbers perspective. 

 

While I understand the point you are trying to make, one cannot take a decision based on one factor alone, which is the spread of infection worldwide. It is not simply the presence or absence of the virus, but also how much one is exposed to it (as Fouremco explains well), as well as the question of increasing numbers further in places where we are indeed seeing what has been forecast for quite a well -- medical facilities being overwhelmed with cases.

 

[luv2travel90266]

Trying to remain positive that our passion for travel can be satisfied in another year. I see 2021 being less likely as the vaccine roll out is less efficient as first projected. The additional concern is as long as a portion of the public refuses vaccinations that could be further extended. Even some health care workers are refusing to take it. Personally any risk of the vaccine is better than the risk of spending my senior years at home and missing traveling. Just have to wait it out and see and hope. 

[UnorigionalName]

6 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Respectfully disagree on TOTAL lockdowns.   I am not minimizing the COVID-19 risks, but one has to balance the damage to public health and the economy from the blanket lockdowns.  Also, what is good for some areas is unnecessary for others.   Florida has avoided the total lockdowns and done better than places like California that have done so.   It is important to protect the elderly, especially in nursing homes and those with serious health issues.  To shut down schools does serious harm to students, especially those in the early grades that come from poorer backgrounds.  Since, young people without co-morbidities rarely are harmed by the virus, shutting down schools is a mistake.  It is smart to avoid large gatherings, but even college football has allowed some fans in the stands, socially distanced.

 

That's a false dichotomy.  countries that were able to keep cases lower have had less economic disruption. 

 

The better the society is able to band together and keep cases low, the better they can manage their economy.

 

Japan, south korea, taiwan, new zealand

[4774Papa]

43 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

That's a false dichotomy.  countries that were able to keep cases lower have had less economic disruption. 

 

The better the society is able to band together and keep cases low, the better they can manage their economy.

 

Japan, south korea, taiwan, new zealand

Disagree, look within the USA and look at the unemployment rates.   Small businesses are getting crushed in the TOTAL shutdown states.   

Individual countries that are like the most isolated country in the World, New Zealand makes little sense comparing it to the USA.  Japan did a soft shutdown and its culture helps with a virus.   

In any event shutdowns destroy more than just the economy and bankrupt businesses, they create serious problems like suicides, mental health problems and more.

I am not advocating ignoring the virus, just focusing on the vulnerable, still masking, social distancing and other prudent measures.  

 

[WonderMan3]

8 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Respectfully disagree on TOTAL lockdowns.   I am not minimizing the COVID-19 risks, but one has to balance the damage to public health and the economy from the blanket lockdowns.  Also, what is good for some areas is unnecessary for others.   Florida has avoided the total lockdowns and done better than places like California that have done so.   It is important to protect the elderly, especially in nursing homes and those with serious health issues.  To shut down schools does serious harm to students, especially those in the early grades that come from poorer backgrounds.  Since, young people without co-morbidities rarely are harmed by the virus, shutting down schools is a mistake.  It is smart to avoid large gatherings, but even college football has allowed some fans in the stands, socially distanced.

Where did I use the word “total”? I said a lockdown similar to what European countries have done. Have those been “total”? The more you open up the more the virus spreads. And if you don’t have a consistent lockdown policy among all states then it’s not going to work. Simple as that. Our hospitals and medical workers are overwhelmed and in some areas are maxing out on beds. I live on Cape Cod where we remained in an okay state pretty much the entire year up until the last month or so when things have gone critical. We have two hospitals in total on the Cape (the nearest one an hour away from where I live) with a total of 355 hospital beds. As of a week ago we had 10 beds left available. You do a lockdown to reduce the spread and reduce the strain on our medical resources. Many areas of the country did it this spring and the virus slowed. That is a fact. Yes, if you reopen then numbers will go up again. We have the ignorant factor at play here which stopped us from doing an all-state shutdown in the spring and also caused people to resist wearing masks once the reopenings started which prevented us from being able to minimize the virus like countries like Australia or New Zealand. With new strains coming into play now, one of which is worrying scientists about being potentially immune to the virus, if we do not get this spread under control soon then it will keep getting worse and will only serve to further erode our economy and prevent some things like cruising from restarting at all or not for a long time.
 

 

[WonderMan3]

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

You might be right but only a complete and strict lockdown would be effective.  Not happening in the US.  Federal mandates over the states will not happen. We have seen and continue to see the high variability in the state responses.  Even under a new administration nothing will change this. Lockdowns are pretty useless since there are so many exceptions.  Partial lockdowns even in Europe and elsewhere are only temporarily effective.  Then they are eased and the virus comes roaring back.  Only getting the vaccine out asap will change the situation.

https://www.ft.com/content/3292fc38-7945-4d7e-b8ed-582146ebe782

As I said in my other post, the point of lockdowns is to reduce spread to minimize the burden on our medical resources. Let’s remember that with hospitals full of Covid patients when they max out they can’t service any of us who have a non-Covid issue like a heart attack, stroke or breaking a leg. The US is certainly long past the point of the lockdowns actually making the virus virtually non-existent like Australia and New Zealand; the government mismanaged it and we are where we are. So all we can do now is try to reduce spread and keep getting people vaccinated. A combination of the two will most certainly have us recovering faster than just letting it run wild under the assumption that “why bother with shutdowns because it’s just going to come back anyway”. This is not like arguing with your mother about why to make the bed because it’s just going to get messed up again. Every time this virus surges more people die. The goal is try and have as few people die as possible. Whatever it takes to make that happen should be the absolute priority IMO.

[WonderMan3]

2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Disagree, look within the USA and look at the unemployment rates.   Small businesses are getting crushed in the TOTAL shutdown states.   

Individual countries that are like the most isolated country in the World, New Zealand makes little sense comparing it to the USA.  Japan did a soft shutdown and its culture helps with a virus.   

In any event shutdowns destroy more than just the economy and bankrupt businesses, they create serious problems like suicides, mental health problems and more.

I am not advocating ignoring the virus, just focusing on the vulnerable, still masking, social distancing and other prudent measures.  

 

Small businesses are getting crushed because our government has been sitting on an economic relief package since the summer and just approved one finally a week or so back. You obviously can’t do a shutdown without that secondary component. But if a state is faced with a choice of saving people’s lives or businesses suffering, those who care about their citizens are going to do the former. European countries aren’t having these issues from what I have seen because their governments have been providing economic relief. Now there is going to be economic pain here no matter what because even with govt aid there is the issue that people just aren’t going out like they used to. The goal should be to have businesses at least be able to get by and survive not necessarily make big profits like they may have pre-Covid.

[sanger727]

Getting slightly resentful reading this thread while people with people who are boasting about getting the vaccine in time to take their trip. I have a job where we had no work from home option and are exposed to tons of people, including those with covid, every day to keep society functioning.  Unlike a lot of people on this forum, we don't have the option of sitting at home and only venturing out a couple times a week to get groceries/pharmacies.  And because of the increased risk we have HAD to take, people have been catching covid left and right at work. Several seriously ill/hospitalized but luckily no deaths.... yet...  Glad to hear our vaccines have been put on the back burner so you can take your trips....

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by sanger727

[TeeRick]

4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Getting slightly resentful reading this thread while people with people who are boasting about getting the vaccine in time to take their trip. I have a job where we had no work from home option and are exposed to tons of people, including those with covid, every day to keep society functioning.  Unlike a lot of people on this forum, we don't have the option of sitting at home and only venturing out a couple times a week to get groceries/pharmacies.  And because of the increased risk we have HAD to take, people have been catching covid left and right at work. Several seriously ill/hospitalized but luckily no deaths.... yet...  Glad to hear our vaccines have been put on the back burner so you can take your trips....

 

First off thank you for taking on risk every day where you work and if you serve the public in doing so.  This is a cruise and travel forum.  Some are excited about being able to be vaccinated and travel again in the distant future when the opportunity is available.  Can you provide examples on this thread of people boasting?  Or examples of your vaccines being put on the back burner while others take trips?  Sorry I don't really see this happening here.  Most posters are not yet able to get a vaccine and have been talking about not traveling until they do. 

[ipeeinthepool]

The Cayman Islands don't expect cruising to return this year.

 

https://caymannewsservice.com/2021/01/cruise-tourism-wont-be-back-before-2022/

[Fouremco]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Getting slightly resentful reading this thread while people with people who are boasting about getting the vaccine in time to take their trip. I have a job where we had no work from home option and are exposed to tons of people, including those with covid, every day to keep society functioning.  Unlike a lot of people on this forum, we don't have the option of sitting at home and only venturing out a couple times a week to get groceries/pharmacies.  And because of the increased risk we have HAD to take, people have been catching covid left and right at work. Several seriously ill/hospitalized but luckily no deaths.... yet...  Glad to hear our vaccines have been put on the back burner so you can take your trips....

 

I can understand your frustration and concern at being a first responder and exposed to COVID through your work without a vaccination. There's clearly an issue in Cincinnati if people in your position aren't included within one of the initial priority groups. Hopefully you will receive your vaccination soon and can come on CC to tell us that you've had your first dose. There are many of us who won't be vaccinated for many more months to come, but we won't be in the slightest bit resentful if you tell us you've had yours. I wish you the best of luck in staying healthy and getting your first shot soon!

[mellapl]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:46 PM, UnorigionalName said:

 

heh, testing has been shown to not really work that well.  The problem is that there is a few days latent period during which you will test negative but are infectious.  Look at that SeaDream 1.  They tested like mad and that's what they got.  Americans that tested negative and were latent.

your a nut

[iancal]

Not for us.  Do not really care if others do since it in no way impacts me.

 

We do not think that cruises will resume any time soon.  The current covid numbers tell the story.

 

 We are not interested in Caribbean cruises or for that matter any travel to the US.  Do not think that Canadian ports will be open this summer.  Doubt very much whether Europe will be open either.  Aus/NZ definitely will not be open.

Edited January 10, 2021 by iancal

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

The Cayman Islands don't expect cruising to return this year.

 

https://caymannewsservice.com/2021/01/cruise-tourism-wont-be-back-before-2022/

They must be physics, check the date of the article, 8/01/2021. Either the month, or the day is wrong.

[zaxanon6]

7 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

They must be physics, check the date of the article, 8/01/2021. Either the month, or the day is wrong.

Some places write dates in the opposite order from the US. I won't swear that it's not just a typo, but 08/01/2021 = Jan 8, 2021 = 01/08/2021

[ipeeinthepool]

11 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

They must be physics, check the date of the article, 8/01/2021. Either the month, or the day is wrong.

 

Nope, that's the British format for dates.  Day/Month/Year

[ECCruise]

32 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

They must be physics, check the date of the article, 8/01/2021. Either the month, or the day is wrong.

Pretty much everywhere in the world that I know of, save North America, has DD/MM/YYYY as format. 

[Fouremco]

51 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Pretty much everywhere in the world that I know of, save North America, has DD/MM/YYYY as format. 

Save USA, as Canada too uses DD/MM/YYYY when not using the YYYY-MM-DD format which was meant to bring a stop to this confusion.

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

Save USA, as Canada too uses DD/MM/YYYY when not using the YYYY-MM-DD format which was meant to bring a stop to this confusion.

I knew about the YYYY-MM-DD which I thought was the default, but my post was confusing since it made it sound like you used our system, which you don't.  Watch out or I will say Canada uses our hodgepodge Imperial weights and measurement system.  🙄

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

First off thank you for taking on risk every day where you work and if you serve the public in doing so.  This is a cruise and travel forum.  Some are excited about being able to be vaccinated and travel again in the distant future when the opportunity is available.  Can you provide examples on this thread of people boasting?  Or examples of your vaccines being put on the back burner while others take trips?  Sorry I don't really see this happening here.  Most posters are not yet able to get a vaccine and have been talking about not traveling until they do. 

referring to posters like 4774papa who stated that he had to call every day but was able to get in for a vaccine for the 65+ age group and now are expecting to take his trips this year. 
 

ive seen this sentiment but other posters on other threads. 
 

in Ohio, police were originally supposed to be in group 1b, and get it after medical personnel and firefighters. Now our governor has pushed police back down the police in favor of bringing up teachers and 65+. And then people who are 65 turn around and excited to get it so they can take their planned summer vacation. 

https://www.13abc.com/2021/01/06/ag-yost-urges-gov-dewine-to-offer-police-covid-19-vaccine-in-letter/

 

 

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

referring to posters like 4774papa who stated that he had to call every day but was able to get in for a vaccine for the 65+ age group and now are expecting to take his trips this year. 
 

ive seen this sentiment but other posters on other threads. 
 

in Ohio, police were originally supposed to be in group 1b, and get it after medical personnel and firefighters. Now our governor has pushed police back down the police in favor of bringing up teachers and 65+. And then people who are 65 turn around and excited to get it so they can take their planned summer vacation. 

https://www.13abc.com/2021/01/06/ag-yost-urges-gov-dewine-to-offer-police-covid-19-vaccine-in-letter/

 

 

Agree, folks who seem to focus on getting the vaccine so they can cruise or vacation in 2021...SMH.  While I won't get on a ship w/o the vaccine, it surely is not the reason I will take it when I am allowed.  I'm thinking more for riding the subway again to work, sitting in my office with co-workers, going to my kids house for dinner or to watch a game etc.