Will P&O now delay announcements for future cruise pauses?

[davecttr]

I merely reported what was said on Newsnight, by the Spanish , don't shoot the messenger.

[davecttr]

7 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

But this won't be an acceptable Government policy. The Government cannot just say, 'you cant have the vaccine for medical reasons, therefore you are detained in the UK indefinitely'.

 

There will need to be an exemption route which still allows travel. My gut feeling is that pressure will be put onto Saga to adopt the Vaccine Passport option rather than their own rules. This is the risk of announcing your rules so early.

If the destination countries governments insist on it so be it even if it is unfair. Obviously all this needs negotiation and it is not going to happen soon

[bobstheboy]

A vaccination passport has to be the way to go. There are obvious problems, not least those that cannot have one for medical reasons, but these will have to be ironed out. There is also the problem of fakes, the internet is full of fakes of all types. The issue re whether countries accept the Oxford jab for us old codgers  could be a problem but I am confident that as new data is released it will be accepted.

[yorkshirephil]

6 minutes ago, davecttr said:

If the destination countries governments insist on it so be it even if it is unfair. Obviously all this needs negotiation and it is not going to happen soon

We are clutching at straws at the moment, when cruising does restart in whatever form it is there will be a much clearer picture as other forms of travel will have already started. I don't think there will eventually be many people who will be medically exempt as we will have a better understanding of all facets of the vaccine plus there will be more choices of vaccine. Of the exempt there will be a small proportion who want to cruise anyway. It could be a similar situation that P&O have already put into the T&C about people on oxygen.

[amfc_lenny]

44 minutes ago, kalos said:

 I agree with every word of your post Selbourne.  Sometimes some of our older folk should 

remember whilst we hide away with our pensions ,safe in our houses, waiting for our food 

to be delivered that a lot of young folk do not have this luxury . They are out there working 

and then at the end of their shift holed up the same as the rest of us .

 

We came into this 

mess as one and I hope soon that's how we leave it ...As one. Nothing selfish about that !

Take care and be safe everyone,

Kalos,

 

I do agree with your sentiments, I have a lot of friends who through no fault of there own have been out of work, trying to bring up their young families in the most difficult of circumstances.
 

I know of people who despite what the media would tell you have been made homeless by their private landlords and are really struggling to try and find the strength to carry on through this.

 

I think that before Boris gives older people the rights to go off and enjoy life and party, that he needs to make sure the economy is working again and help those of all ages who are in difficulty get their life back on track.

 

 

[P&O SUE]

I really hope successful cruising is in place next year.  When we were younger with a young family we took our holidays in the Uk. We don’t  like flying and only came to cruising in 2012. I’m quite happy to have a holiday in the UK this year but my options are limited if we don’t cruise next year 😞. We’ve had some brilliant holidays in France but as their vaccine rollout isn’t going too well I’m not looking there for a while either.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

But this won't be an acceptable Government policy. The Government cannot just say, 'you cant have the vaccine for medical reasons, therefore you are detained in the UK indefinitely'.

 

There will need to be an exemption route which still allows travel. My gut feeling is that pressure will be put onto Saga to adopt the Vaccine Passport option rather than their own rules. This is the risk of announcing your rules so early.

Whilst understanding that there will be some people who cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, how do you differentiate between those who ‘can’t’ and those who ‘won’t’? I would have thought that it would be entirely reasonable for a cruise line to say that, regardless of reason, those who have not been vaccinated, regardless of reason, would be posing a risk to others and therefore cannot cruise. Sounds tough, but given the inherent challenges with viral spread on cruise ships it seems to be the most sensible route.
 

However, and it’s a big ‘however’, the big flaw in Sagas policy is not insisting on the crew being vaccinated. This seems illogical to me. Personally, I think that most countries will be reluctant to allow cruise ships back into their ports until all crew, as well as passengers, are vaccinated. Failing that, there will be inevitable outbreaks amongst the crew which will mean that the entire cruise has to be terminated as the ship would be refused entry, even if none of the passengers were affected. 

[ann141]

5 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Whilst understanding that there will be some people who cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, how do you differentiate between those who ‘can’t’ and those who ‘won’t’? I would have thought that it would be entirely reasonable for a cruise line to say that, regardless of reason, those who have not been vaccinated, regardless of reason, would be posing a risk to others and therefore cannot cruise. Sounds tough, but given the inherent challenges with viral spread on cruise ships it seems to be the most sensible route.
 

However, and it’s a big ‘however’, the big flaw in Sagas policy is not insisting on the crew being vaccinated. This seems illogical to me. Personally, I think that most countries will be reluctant to allow cruise ships back into their ports until all crew, as well as passengers, are vaccinated. Failing that, there will be inevitable outbreaks amongst the crew which will mean that the entire cruise has to be terminated as the ship would be refused entry, even if none of the passengers were affected. 

I think if people can't have the vaccine for medical reasons they should hopefully be able to get a medical exemption certificate from the GP like you can for instance yellow fever.(Even if people have to pay for it)

[tring]

19 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Whilst understanding that there will be some people who cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, how do you differentiate between those who ‘can’t’ and those who ‘won’t’? I would have thought that it would be entirely reasonable for a cruise line to say that, regardless of reason, those who have not been vaccinated, regardless of reason, would be posing a risk to others and therefore cannot cruise. Sounds tough, but given the inherent challenges with viral spread on cruise ships it seems to be the most sensible route.
 

However, and it’s a big ‘however’, the big flaw in Sagas policy is not insisting on the crew being vaccinated. This seems illogical to me. Personally, I think that most countries will be reluctant to allow cruise ships back into their ports until all crew, as well as passengers, are vaccinated. Failing that, there will be inevitable outbreaks amongst the crew which will mean that the entire cruise has to be terminated as the ship would be refused entry, even if none of the passengers were affected. 

 

Have Saga actually said the crew will not be vaccinated?  I have read an article fairly recently which said crew could be vaccinated before leaving their home countries as governments are willing to sell vaccine for that purpose.  Firms in the US being allocated vaccine to give to their staff.  I have a relative in Utah already vaccinated by his employer.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by tring

[Selbourne]

14 minutes ago, ann141 said:

I think if people can't have the vaccine for medical reasons they should hopefully be able to get a medical exemption certificate from the GP like you can for instance yellow fever.(Even if people have to pay for it)

I’m sure that they could, but of course the issue remains that these people would be at a significantly higher risk of getting the virus and passing it on to others which, I would have thought, is a risk that cruise companies may not be prepared to take?

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Have Saga actually said the crew will not be vaccinated?  I have read an article fairly recently which said crew could be vaccinated before leaving their home countries as governments are willing to sell vaccine for that purpose.  Firms in the US being allocated vaccine to give to their staff.  I have a relative in Utah already vaccinated by his employer.

 

I’m prepared to be corrected Tring, but I’m sure that I read, when Saga announced this policy, that the crew would not have to be vaccinated. 

[Selbourne]

8 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Have Saga actually said the crew will not be vaccinated?  I have read an article fairly recently which said crew could be vaccinated before leaving their home countries as governments are willing to sell vaccine for that purpose.  Firms in the US being allocated vaccine to give to their staff.  I have a relative in Utah already vaccinated by his employer.

 

Found it, in the Q&A on the Saga Cruises website:

 

Will crew and other staff aboard the ships also have the vaccine?

Our focus in the first instance is on our guests and ensuring all of them have been vaccinated, we have comprehensive COVID‑19 protocols in place to protect our crew, including quarantine and regular testing and as soon as crew can be vaccinated they will be.

[Selbourne]

21 minutes ago, ann141 said:

I think if people can't have the vaccine for medical reasons they should hopefully be able to get a medical exemption certificate from the GP like you can for instance yellow fever.(Even if people have to pay for it)

This from the Saga Cruises website. I think this is a reasonable approach for all cruise lines to follow:

 

What if I am exempt from receiving the vaccine?

Sadly we would not be able to allow you to cruise and would ask that you contact our Cruise Guest Services who will be able to discuss your options with you and arrange a full refund.

[ann141]

12 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I’m sure that they could, but of course the issue remains that these people would be at a significantly higher risk of getting the virus and passing it on to others which, I would have thought, is a risk that cruise companies may not be prepared to take?

I think by the time cruising is allowed to start from the Uk case numbers will be very small and people medically exempt from having the jab would be low in number so I wouldn't be too worried about cruising.What I would be more concerned about is if the crew had not all been vaccinated.Although hopefully eventually they would be vaccinated when I phoned Saga (cruises) the day after their new policy was announced they said that they hoped the crew would get vaccinated in time but there was no promise that this would happen before sailing.Some governments might pay for their crew to have the jab but the majority of the entertainment team (and performers) come from the UK and I can't see that they would be allowed to queue jump

[yorkshirephil]

27 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

This from the Saga Cruises website. I think this is a reasonable approach for all cruise lines to follow:

 

What if I am exempt from receiving the vaccine?

Sadly we would not be able to allow you to cruise and would ask that you contact our Cruise Guest Services who will be able to discuss your options with you and arrange a full refund.

So Saga will stop a potential tiny proportion of passengers boarding but will allow potentially several hundred unvaccinated staff onboard. I am not sure how that is reducing the risk to passengers. Surely the same comprehensive COVID-19 protocols they are quoting could apply to the minority of unvaccinated passengers.

we have comprehensive COVID‑19 protocols in place to protect our crew, including quarantine and regular testing and as soon as crew can be vaccinated they will be.

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

So Saga will stop a potential tiny proportion of passengers boarding but will allow potentially several hundred unvaccinated staff onboard. I am not sure how that is reducing the risk to passengers. Surely the same comprehensive COVID-19 protocols they are quoting could apply to the minority of unvaccinated passengers.

we have comprehensive COVID‑19 protocols in place to protect our crew, including quarantine and regular testing and as soon as crew can be vaccinated they will be.

I agree it makes little sense and that’s even before we consider what restrictions or conditions other countries may impose in order to allow cruise ships to start returning. Personally I can’t see overseas cruises resuming for quite some time but, as always, I hope that I am wrong, especially for the sake of those still holding out hope that their summer cruises will still happen. 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

But this won't be an acceptable Government policy. The Government cannot just say, 'you cant have the vaccine for medical reasons, therefore you are detained in the UK indefinitely'.

 

There will need to be an exemption route which still allows travel. My gut feeling is that pressure will be put onto Saga to adopt the Vaccine Passport option rather than their own rules. This is the risk of announcing your rules so early.

I have just been reading up on this and it appears that only those with a history of significant and major  allergic reactions to vaccination will need to avoid have a jab.  The recommendation from the health sector is that all others would benefit from being vaccinated, so the numbers legitimately not having the vaccine will be very small. This should make the administration of a Vaccine Passport fairly easy, all that would be needed is a security system that prevented fraud.  So a computer link to your passport information, accessible only by immigration officials would seem to be the way forward.

[majortom10]

14 hours ago, davecttr said:

At the moment yes they would be refused entry but vaccine passports are months away and the doubts about the Oxford AZ vaccine for over 65's are based on the very small sample size of those age groups in the trials. With many millions of people now receiving the Oxford AZ jab in a few weeks time we will have an enormous sample size which may well indicate that The Oxford AZ jab is fine for the over 65's.

Do you think that will make any difference I cannot help but think that politics by the EU are in action with these rulings.

[nosapphire]

34 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Do you think that will make any difference I cannot help but think that politics by the EU are in action with these rulings.

IF proof of vaccination is required to enter another country, wonder if the UK having a 12 week gap between jabs is going to cause a "this vaccination has not been done properly" reaction in countries working to the 3 week gap.

All still very much speculation, but at least it keeps our minds active looking at all the "what if" scenarios while we wait for actual facts to emerge.

 

[tring]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Found it, in the Q&A on the Saga Cruises website:

 

Will crew and other staff aboard the ships also have the vaccine?

Our focus in the first instance is on our guests and ensuring all of them have been vaccinated, we have comprehensive COVID‑19 protocols in place to protect our crew, including quarantine and regular testing and as soon as crew can be vaccinated they will be.

 

Thanks for that.  I have not looked at Saga cruises or travelled with them, but was just wondering what the situation was.  I see they do say crew will be vaccinated as soon as possible, so it would seem possible they may have any new crew who travel from their home countries vaccinated before they travel to the UK if possible, per haps through the agencies they are employed by, but obviously not really possible once they are over here.  Not sure where I saw that info - possibly from a link  on these boards and I know it mentioned India and I am pretty sure The Philippines as possibly being willing to sell vaccine for that purpose.  Would seem a good move for a poor country, so some of their nationals are free to make money elsewhere, but would benefit of their own countries as well. 

 

I also do not know what nationalities work on Saga ships, my interest is more a general one as chances are all cruise lines will do the same thing eventually - just my thoughts rather than any knowledge obviously. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by tring

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

IF proof of vaccination is required to enter another country, wonder if the UK having a 12 week gap between jabs is going to cause a "this vaccination has not been done properly" reaction in countries working to the 3 week gap.

All still very much speculation, but at least it keeps our minds active looking at all the "what if" scenarios while we wait for actual facts to emerge.

 

If some of the pessimistic assumptions on here about when cruising can restart  we may well be on our 3rd or 4th vaccination before we can step aboard a ship again.

[nosapphire]

5 hours ago, molecrochip said:

But this won't be an acceptable Government policy. The Government cannot just say, 'you cant have the vaccine for medical reasons, therefore you are detained in the UK indefinitely'.

 

There will need to be an exemption route which still allows travel. My gut feeling is that pressure will be put onto Saga to adopt the Vaccine Passport option rather than their own rules. This is the risk of announcing your rules so early.

But it is a very clever move by Saga.

The majority of people reading about vaccination is mandatory to cruise with Saga will assume this means that everybody on board will be vaccinated and that Saga are taking greater precautions than any other line..

 

[Purdey16]

I apologise if this as been said before but I have not had the time to read all through, but I got a email today from P & O about our Canada cruise on Arcadia 24 th September, even though Canada have closed their boarders up until feb 22 next year, P & O are NOT cancelling our cruise yet , they are keeping ther options open in the hope that things will be turned around and go ahead , at least on this cruise they only have our deposit, but full fare to be paid in April which I’m sure we will not be paying if Canada doesn’t open up , I really can’t see this going what’s so ever and a bit puzzled why p & o have taken this route apart from holding on to my money longer 😠

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If some of the pessimistic assumptions on here about when cruising can restart  we may well be on our 3rd or 4th vaccination before we can step aboard a ship again.

But surely you must appreciate John that, in so far as overseas cruises go, the UK vaccination programme is just one of many factors that will need to be sorted? For around UK cruises and cruises to nowhere, it will be the primary driver, in which case I can see them going in the summer, but overseas ones I wouldn’t be so confident. 

[Selbourne]

15 minutes ago, Purdey16 said:

I really can’t see this going what’s so ever and a bit puzzled why p & o have taken this route apart from holding on to my money longer 😠

I think you have answered your own question, unfortunately!