Canadian government CANCELS 2021 Alaska cruise Season

[BP99]

24 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Great that many Canadians defend their towns.  We have sailed past Halifax three times on trans-Atlantics and stopped three times.  Took the tour to Peggy's Cove and grabbed a quick bite in the restaurant.  We have traveled the world, visited all 7 continents, been north of the Arctic Circles and south of the Antarctic, visited all 50 US states, safari'd in Tanzania and Kenya, traveled in eastern Europe and Russia, listed Japan, toured two weeks in China and Tibet, raised in the Netherlands as a child post WWII, schooled in international schools in Belgium and Switzerland, lived in the former Yugoslavia and Romania, and adopted a girl from a children's home in Romania just for starters.  Halifax compared to Petra, Luxor, Galapagos, Amsterdam's museums, Dachau, Urquhart Castle, just about any place in Ireland, Oldupai Gorge, The Great Migration, Jungfraujoch, etc., etc.  Nope.  Even found Ushuaia and nearby Patagonia much more enlightening.  That said, PEI is lovely and a place I could live.  

Hi,

I live in Halifax also but was not offended with your comments.

Each person has their own opinion. For example you list

Urquhart Castle as a great visit. I have visited Scotland several

times including Urquhart Castle. I would NEVER put it on my 

list of must see castles. Lots of broken walls and little WOW

factor. Yes, it has history and the area (Loch Ness)  and the scenery is beautiful but... You should have replaced it with Eilean Donan Castle for the Scottish Highlands as a must see. Of the multitude of castles

I have visited it would NOT be on my list!! I was once on a tour

of Olympia Greece and the guide told us to use our imagination

when viewing the ruble of broken rocks! If you like castles/chateaus/

Palaces try Southern England, Rhine valley, Loire valley, Spain etc.

Those are spectacular and have WOW factor!

Southern England

[NMTraveller]

8 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Maybe the most disconcerting aspect of all this is the potential impact on the industry, especially Princess, Celebrity and Royal.  Cruise lines will need to repurpose their ships to itineraries other than Alaska.  Not easy when these are usually planned two years in advance and during the pandemic it will be unlikely that adding more capacity to other established itineraries will be possible.  Will be interesting to see how the cruise lines accomplish this.

I am starting to wonder who will own these cruise lines?  They had borrowed money to last until the end of March.  Will creditors issue more loans?

 

Will we be sailing Amazon or Bezos Cruises?  

Edited February 6, 2021 by NMTraveller

[nocl]

26 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I am starting to wonder who will own these cruise lines?  They had borrowed money to last until the end of March.  Will creditors issue more loans?

 

Will we be sailing Amazon or Bezos Cruises?  

With the amount of money the Fed and Congress is pumping into the economy it is pretty easy to borrow.  The question is how much can they borrow before the debt becomes an overwhelming load that impacts the companies ability to operate effectively. Already I suspect that, while the cruise lines will take delivery of previously ordered ships, you might not see any more large ships ordered for several years.

 

I expect that the big 3 will probably survive.  If the shareholders investment survives might be less likely.   With the amount of debt that they have built up it will certainly impact their profitability for a long time.  At some point I would not be surprised if they restructure, wiping out the shareholders and exchanging equity for the bonds. But I do not see that until there is a clear view of how they are going to return to operations.

 

Of course a lot of stock, especially in CCL, is owned by insiders so they will avoid it for as long as possible.

[grandgeezer]

45 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I am starting to wonder who will own these cruise lines?  They had borrowed money to last until the end of March.  Will creditors issue more loans?

 

Will we be sailing Amazon or Bezos Cruises?  

Bezos is too smart and impatient to invest his time and money into an industry that will take years to recover, if ever. Look how fast he made Amazon take off.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

It was a nice stop - once.  Nothing I would schedule to visit again.

What is your point keeping your opinion going?  I don't think many care where you've been or whether you would visit this or any other place more than once. 

[NMTraveller]

23 minutes ago, nocl said:

With the amount of money the Fed and Congress is pumping into the economy it is pretty easy to borrow.  The question is how much can they borrow before the debt becomes an overwhelming load that impacts the companies ability to operate effectively. Already I suspect that, while the cruise lines will take delivery of previously ordered ships, you might not see any more large ships ordered for several years.

 

I expect that the big 3 will probably survive.  If the shareholders investment survives might be less likely.   With the amount of debt that they have built up it will certainly impact their profitability for a long time.  At some point I would not be surprised if they restructure, wiping out the shareholders and exchanging equity for the bonds. But I do not see that until there is a clear view of how they are going to return to operations.

 

Of course a lot of stock, especially in CCL, is owned by insiders so they will avoid it for as long as possible.

That is a plausible speculation.  The rate at which they are borrowing money at is very high.  Seven percent or better.  If they do go into bankruptcy reorganizatiton one could expect most if not all of the small ships to be sold.  Bye Bye M Class if they have not already announced.

[NMTraveller]

11 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Bezos is too smart and impatient to invest his time and money into an industry that will take years to recover, if ever. Look how fast he made Amazon take off.

But the small ships are being sold for pennies on the dollar.  Why not purchase them and create a luxury line and charge 3 times what the fare was before.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

That is a plausible speculation.  The rate at which they are borrowing money at is very high.  Seven percent or better.  If they do go into bankruptcy reorganizatiton one could expect most if not all of the small ships to be sold.  Bye Bye M Class if they have not already announced.

Not really.  They have gotten rid of their less profitable ships They are basically internally organizing to generate maximum profit per cruise once they restart.  However, considering the amount of debt they have added, they do need  enough capacity to generate the revenue to pay them off so that would limit how much they can shrink their fleet. So while there might be more ship sales, there is a limit to how much capacity they can offload and still be viable.  

 

While they might offload more ships if they were to reorganize in BK, if they get rid of too many they will certainly need to BK.

 

Numbers that I am sure they are running every day.

[Ride-The-Waves]

9 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

But the small ships are being sold for pennies on the dollar.  Why not purchase them and create a luxury line and charge 3 times what the fare was before.

RCG sold Azamara and its three ships for $200million and the buyer is adding a 4th "R" to that fleet - Pacific Princess.  Someone believes these smaller ships are the future and they may be right as the behemoths will be less likely to be welcomed in ports disgorging 4,000-plus guests every visit.  

[NMTraveller]

3 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

RCG sold Azamara and its three ships for $200million and the buyer is adding a 4th "R" to that fleet - Pacific Princess.  Someone believes these smaller ships are the future and they may be right as the behemoths will be less likely to be welcomed in ports disgorging 4,000-plus guests every visit.  

I was booked on the Pacific Princess before they sold it.  I ended up on an even smaller ship for a replacement cruise.  I would tend to agree with you.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by NMTraveller

[Ride-The-Waves]

21 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I was booked on the Pacific Princess before they sold it.  I ended up on an even smaller ship for a replacement cruise.  I would tend to agree with you.

 

We have frequently sailed with Azamara and like I've said on other posts, its like coming home again when embarking. Giving Oceania and try Fall 2022 for a med and trans-Atlantic on one of their newer 1,200 passenger ships.  Oceania and Azamara will now have split the Renaissance fleet between them.  Great small ships.

[lostchild]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

I am starting to wonder who will own these cruise lines?  They had borrowed money to last until the end of March.  Will creditors issue more loans?

 

Will we be sailing Amazon or Bezos Cruises?  

 Elon Musk.  He could buy the luxury line with smaller vessels.  Make them all electric powered by Tesla battery.  The ships will be Full Self Drive so no captain onboard.  Internet will be provided by Starlink.   In the middle of the cruise, the ship will turn into a submarine and go thru a underwater tunnel drilled by the Boring Company.   At the end of the cruise, you will be arriving at a SpaceX launch and take you out to space for a few nights at the SpaceX space hotel.

[Blackduck59]

47 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

Yep, scratch all those summer Alaska cruises being advertised. Onto 2022 in the Caribbean. No Canadian government there!!

 

Yes no Canadian Government there but plenty of other national Governments, all of which will have a say about what they will allow. Maybe Cuba will make you welcome...oh I forgot.

[Ride-The-Waves]

27 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Yes no Canadian Government there but plenty of other national Governments, all of which will have a say about what they will allow. Maybe Cuba will make you welcome...oh I forgot.

We visited Cuba in 2017 on Empress of the Seas.  Well worth it.  President Biden will reengage with the Cubans and Cuba will reopen for cruise ship visits.  Interesting place for us since we lived in Eastern Europe in the late 1980s and able to compare that Wall era to what the Cubans have created.  The ship, only moored in Havana and next time would take a cruise that visited more than just Havana.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, BP99 said:

Hi,

I live in Halifax also but was not offended with your comments.

Each person has their own opinion. For example you list

Urquhart Castle as a great visit. I have visited Scotland several

times including Urquhart Castle. I would NEVER put it on my 

list of must see castles. Lots of broken walls and little WOW

factor. Yes, it has history and the area (Loch Ness)  and the scenery is beautiful but... You should have replaced it with Eilean Donan Castle for the Scottish Highlands as a must see. Of the multitude of castles

I have visited it would NOT be on my list!! I was once on a tour

of Olympia Greece and the guide told us to use our imagination

when viewing the ruble of broken rocks! If you like castles/chateaus/

Palaces try Southern England, Rhine valley, Loire valley, Spain etc.

Those are spectacular and have WOW factor!

Southern England

Visit to Urquhart was mystical, even spiritual in addition to the highlands beauty.  Maybe I was channeling my Irish-Scottish heritage.  Maybe channeling some other time/era I visited.  For shear beauty one cannot beat the Swiss Alps.

[Oregonhiker]

Back to the subject,

 

I just had an online chat with Celebrity about canceling my July Alaska cruise and rebooking for next year. He said or rather typed:

 

"We are currently working to determine how this will impact Celebrity Cruise sailings with planned calls in Canada.
A full update of how this will impact Celebrity Cruise 2021 sailings to Alaska and Canada will be provided by the end of next week"

 

So I guess I'll wait and see.

[cantstopingcruising]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Visit to Urquhart was mystical, even spiritual in addition to the highlands beauty.  Maybe I was channeling my Irish-Scottish heritage.  Maybe channeling some other time/era I visited.  For shear beauty one cannot beat the Swiss Alps.

The Swiss Alps are wonderful. But have you seen the Canadian Rockies?

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

The Swiss Alps are wonderful. But have you seen the Canadian Rockies?

We have loose planned for years to drive the ALCAN to Fairbanks.  Something we have had to put on hold again do to the pandemic.  Lived in Switzerland as an adolescent and most recently back in 2017 and 2018 traveling the country in conjunction with Transatlantics.  During the 2017 Swissrail trip we spent several nights in Grindelwald and took the cogwheel up to Jungfraujoch on a CAVU (Clear And Visibility Unlimited) day.  Truly amazing.  In 2018 traveled to the top of Mt Pilatus and Mt Titlis on similar CAVU days.  During college days spent time in Zermatt and have experienced the Matterhorn on a clear day.  Lived in Colorado my first 6 months in service and traveled the Colorado Rockies.  So while I have yet to visit the Canadian Rockies I'm presuming they are similar to Colorado...  Love the mountains...and now stuck living in Florida although we are in the Florida hills at 209 feet ASL!

[mimbecky]

I just saw this online although I think it is a long shot.

 

“The industry may consider asking for temporary relief from the Passenger Vessel Services Act,” CLIA manager for strategic communications Laziza Lambert said, referring to the 135-year-old U.S. law that forces foreign-flagged cruise ships to make a stop at a Canadian port when sailing to Alaska.

 

Alaska cruise season could be over before it begins as Canada bans ships for all of 2021 (thepointsguy.com)

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

I just saw this online although I think it is a long shot.

 

“The industry may consider asking for temporary relief from the Passenger Vessel Services Act,” CLIA manager for strategic communications Laziza Lambert said, referring to the 135-year-old U.S. law that forces foreign-flagged cruise ships to make a stop at a Canadian port when sailing to Alaska.

 

Alaska cruise season could be over before it begins as Canada bans ships for all of 2021 (thepointsguy.com)

Like most articles, it only addresses the 50 meter target. Does the author seriously believe there’s any chance of addressing the immigration and visa issues? Or that passengers are willing to pay the increased prices that would result from from taxes? If you want to more or less maintain the more or less status quo, you need at least those three changes. The PVSA is simply the most obvious legal impediment, but hardly the largest. 

[LGW59]

13 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

I just saw this online although I think it is a long shot.

 

“The industry may consider asking for temporary relief from the Passenger Vessel Services Act,” CLIA manager for strategic communications Laziza Lambert said, referring to the 135-year-old U.S. law that forces foreign-flagged cruise ships to make a stop at a Canadian port when sailing to Alaska.

 

Alaska cruise season could be over before it begins as Canada bans ships for all of 2021 (thepointsguy.com)

Very insightful, (though unfortunate) article, thanks for sharing this.

[maryann2]

7 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 For shear beauty one cannot beat the Swiss Alps.

 

3 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

The Swiss Alps are wonderful. But have you seen the Canadian Rockies?

The Canadian Rockies are similar to the Swiss Alps without people.

[Blackduck59]

Actually the title of the thread is not really correct. Canada closed our territorial waters to cruise ships, which made it impossible for cruises in Alaska and also cruises in New England that involve Canada to operate. This is due to a US law. Of course our Government knew what the end result would be, loss of business for many Canadian vendors along with lost jobs for port workers, restaurant servers and tourist operators. I don't think that the effects this decision would have on the other side of our border came into consideration.

[Arizona Wildcat]

11 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

I am starting to wonder who will own these cruise lines?  They had borrowed money to last until the end of March.  Will creditors issue more loans?

 

Will we be sailing Amazon or Bezos Cruises?  

The Saudis are a 5% owner now.  Hmmm

[cantstopingcruising]

4 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

We have loose planned for years to drive the ALCAN to Fairbanks.  Something we have had to put on hold again do to the pandemic.  Lived in Switzerland as an adolescent and most recently back in 2017 and 2018 traveling the country in conjunction with Transatlantics.  During the 2017 Swissrail trip we spent several nights in Grindelwald and took the cogwheel up to Jungfraujoch on a CAVU (Clear And Visibility Unlimited) day.  Truly amazing.  In 2018 traveled to the top of Mt Pilatus and Mt Titlis on similar CAVU days.  During college days spent time in Zermatt and have experienced the Matterhorn on a clear day.  Lived in Colorado my first 6 months in service and traveled the Colorado Rockies.  So while I have yet to visit the Canadian Rockies I'm presuming they are similar to Colorado...  Love the mountains...and now stuck living in Florida although we are in the Florida hills at 209 feet ASL!

First of all, enjoy the warmth and the palm trees of Florida.

We have never been to Colorado but I have been to Switzerland a few times, even worked there as an AIESEC student a million years ago. Love the Swissrail. Last trip, we sent our luggage ahead on each leg of our trip so that we could enjoy unencumbered.

 

The Canadian Rockies are different. They are more above the treeline and less inhabited. Truly majestic. After a week or so, when you return to lower levels, you can really feel the culture shock.

 

Let's hope things will soon return to normal and we can once again visit places we love.