Aren't Vaccines a Game-Changer?

[Jimmcdaniel]

I have been carefully reading the threads on the Regent and I am puzzled: It seems like the introduction of vaccines to cruising should be a much bigger game-changer than some of things I have been reading would indicate. It seem like maybe we are missing something.

 

Given the fact that the two mRNA vaccines have tremendous benefits in dramatically reducing death and illness and the J&J vaccine has a 100% track record for eliminating hospitalizations altogether, why aren’t we thinking more positively about a restart? If we went back in time to a pre-Covid period and there was a disease out there that was pretty contagious but not very serious (i.e. not fatal and not requiring hospitalization) do you think cruising would be shut down? I don’t think so. Cruise lines would manage the situation much like they do with noroviris, influenza and other rather common diseases. BTW—I am NOT saying Covid is the same as the flu—but with vaccines, its effects on vaccinated people might be considered in a similar vein. With beefed up medical staff on board, isolation options, plans for disembarking sick passengers and rigorous testing protocols, Covid seems like it could be managed and still make for an enjoyable experience.

 

I realize that there is the still unanswered question of whether the vaccines prevent transmission, but if everyone on a cruise is vaccinated, I am not sure it matters much to those on the ship. The virus basically has no where to go and will die out. I don’t even see much reason to require masks on board. Because vaccines aren’t 100% effective in preventing Covid, anybody going on a cruise will need to acknowledge that there is a risk they may get sick (as they should anyway), but the illness they experience shouldn’t be anything like pre-vaccinated Covid and should be entirely manageable.

 

There is the question of what will countries think of having vaccinated cruise ship guests arriving on their shores. For the next year or so (until they can vaccinate a large majority of their populace) they may require social distancing and mask wearing while ashore. I could live with that. But will they totally exclude cruise passengers? Again, I don’t think so. Many countries seem eager to restart their tourism industries. And will vaccinated cruise passengers really pose any more of a threat to their citizens than their own people?

 

Maybe it is I who am missing something. I would love to hear what others on this board think of these ideas.

[Retired Happy Camper]

35 minutes ago, Jimmcdaniel said:

I have been carefully reading the threads on the Regent and I am puzzled: It seems like the introduction of vaccines to cruising should be a much bigger game-changer than some of things I have been reading would indicate. It seem like maybe we are missing something.

 

Given the fact that the two mRNA vaccines have tremendous benefits in dramatically reducing death and illness and the J&J vaccine has a 100% track record for eliminating hospitalizations altogether, why aren’t we thinking more positively about a restart? If we went back in time to a pre-Covid period and there was a disease out there that was pretty contagious but not very serious (i.e. not fatal and not requiring hospitalization) do you think cruising would be shut down? I don’t think so. Cruise lines would manage the situation much like they do with noroviris, influenza and other rather common diseases. BTW—I am NOT saying Covid is the same as the flu—but with vaccines, its effects on vaccinated people might be considered in a similar vein. With beefed up medical staff on board, isolation options, plans for disembarking sick passengers and rigorous testing protocols, Covid seems like it could be managed and still make for an enjoyable experience.

 

I realize that there is the still unanswered question of whether the vaccines prevent transmission, but if everyone on a cruise is vaccinated, I am not sure it matters much to those on the ship. The virus basically has no where to go and will die out. I don’t even see much reason to require masks on board. Because vaccines aren’t 100% effective in preventing Covid, anybody going on a cruise will need to acknowledge that there is a risk they may get sick (as they should anyway), but the illness they experience shouldn’t be anything like pre-vaccinated Covid and should be entirely manageable.

 

There is the question of what will countries think of having vaccinated cruise ship guests arriving on their shores. For the next year or so (until they can vaccinate a large majority of their populace) they may require social distancing and mask wearing while ashore. I could live with that. But will they totally exclude cruise passengers? Again, I don’t think so. Many countries seem eager to restart their tourism industries. And will vaccinated cruise passengers really pose any more of a threat to their citizens than their own people?

 

Maybe it is I who am missing something. I would love to hear what others on this board think of these ideas.

Jim, I think you are correct.  Our next cruise is 6-7 months away and I suspect that by that time Regent will require vaccination for all crew and passengers.  I agree that we'll be quite safe on board.  However, excursions will be an entirely different matter.  We'll wait and see, but we may not risk the local populace anywhere.

 

[Pudgesmom]

We are going to have our population vaccinated much faster than most of the world. Less well off countries are getting outbid for vaccines. Sub- Saharan Africa has almost no one vaccinated yet. South Africa, according to a story I read last week, has 25 people vaccinated. I don’t believe borders are going to be open for international 

tourists until this improves. And do you really want to visit if everything is closed for Covid? I don’t. 

[Jimmcdaniel]

Pudgesmom, I agree we will have our population vaccinated sooner, or at least a large chunk of it. Until, two weeks ago, South Africa was wide open and even accepting Americans! It seems that their openness to visitors has more to do with Covid spread rather than vaccine availability. I expect once they get their current spike under control that they will reopen. I have read that many of the smaller island nations popular with cruise lines plan to have their relatively small populations vaccinated in the near future. 
 

It may very well be that lack of destinations is the major hold up to cruising resuming. If so, maybe the lines can focus on places that are open and available. And no, I don’t want to visit if everything is closed either. Totally agree with you there. 
 

I guess my major point is that all the angst and hand-wringing about conditions on board cruise ships (mask mandates, dining restrictions, shore excursion limitations, inability to freely socialize, etc) may be misplaced in light of the power these vaccines hold for us. 

[mrlevin]

I agree that vaccines are a game changer; however, there are a number of individuals and countries that believe eradication is the only satisfactory course.  Vaccine does not give you eradication except over a very long time.  I keep getting frustrated by the Aussies and Kiwis and now Canadians who believe one case is too many.

[chuckw]

We just got our first shots, I hope you're correct.

[giustot]

Jim, I think everything you've said is true. The issue is it's too early to tell how long it will take for the vaccine to be a game changer. There's not enough data. And we don't yet know the impact of new strains of the virus that the vaccines may not cover. 

[ysolde]

9 hours ago, giustot said:

Jim, I think everything you've said is true. The issue is it's too early to tell how long it will take for the vaccine to be a game changer. There's not enough data. And we don't yet know the impact of new strains of the virus that the vaccines may not cover. 

I agree.  I think (hope?) the vaccine will be a game-changer, and both my husband and I will be vaccinated as soon as it is offered to us.  AFAICT, it's too early to know how long it will take for the vaccine to change the game.  We don't know whether we will need yearly vaccinations (as we do with the flu). We don't know whether the vaccine only protects those who are vaccinated from getting Covid, or whether it prevents those who are vaccinated from transmitting Covid to others.  We don't know how many of the variant strains (South Africa, UK, Brazil) the current vaccine will protect us against, and we don't know how many new strains are going to pop up in the near future.  There are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns.  Still, the vaccine is an incredibly hopeful development. 

[jjs217]

14 hours ago, Jimmcdaniel said:

Pudgesmom, I agree we will have our population vaccinated sooner, or at least a large chunk of it. Until, two weeks ago, South Africa was wide open and even accepting Americans! It seems that their openness to visitors has more to do with Covid spread rather than vaccine availability. I expect once they get their current spike under control that they will reopen. I have read that many of the smaller island nations popular with cruise lines plan to have their relatively small populations vaccinated in the near future. 
 

It may very well be that lack of destinations is the major hold up to cruising resuming. If so, maybe the lines can focus on places that are open and available. And no, I don’t want to visit if everything is closed either. Totally agree with you there. 
 

I guess my major point is that all the angst and hand-wringing about conditions on board cruise ships (mask mandates, dining restrictions, shore excursion limitations, inability to freely socialize, etc) may be misplaced in light of the power these vaccines hold for us. 

Totally agree.  Also, fast and easy treatment should be on the table.  There are great "packs" for treating the flu and it's symptoms.  Hopefully, a Covid-19 or general Corona Virus "pack" will also be available on cruise ships and pharmacies.  Once I receive my two vaccines, I am ready to travel, and ready to take the risks as I do with all diseases we humans are susceptible to contracting.

[1982CruzStart]

13 hours ago, mrlevin said:

I keep getting frustrated by the Aussies and Kiwis and now Canadians who believe one case is too many.

It is not about believing 1 case is too many, it is about a country with a releatively small population but large land mass not having the same financial resources of the USA, trying to protect its citizens in a manner that we feel appropriate for us. Our government dropped the ball regarding the vaccine and we can't afford to let other people into our country when our population isn't vaccinated and we don't know whether vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. 

Considering the fact that your own country's rules are keeping ships from sailing in and out of US ports, i think it is inappropriate for you to throw shade at other countries for how they keep their citizens safe. 

[Kristal Blade]

Have a look at the number of deaths in Australia and New Zealand. Maybe the policy of 1 case is too many works? 
just saying.

 

As a citizen of a country in the top 3 deaths per population size I think we should have been stricter on border control. I am participating in the J&J trial here, get my second vaccine in a couple of weeks, but it could just be saline solution!

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

20 hours ago, Kristal Blade said:

Have a look at the number of deaths in Australia and New Zealand. Maybe the policy of 1 case is too many works? 
just saying.

 

As a citizen of a country in the top 3 deaths per population size I think we should have been stricter on border control. I am participating in the J&J trial here, get my second vaccine in a couple of weeks, but it could just be saline solution!

I thought J and J is one dose?...

[howiefrommd]

J & J launched a second dose global Phase 3 trial via their ENSEMBLE study.  Enrolling 30,000 participants primarily from the UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Belgium and the Philippines. It is a double blind study in which they receive a dose 57 days after their initial dose.  

[Kristal Blade]

That’s me, Ensemble group! I have the free shopping bag with the logo, ha ha.

[Dolebludger]

I agree with those here who say that international restrictions may remain a probem after vacinations are common in the USA. Even if vaccination proof is required for all guests, this may not be sufficient for foriegn authorities. After all, the CDC says that a vacccinated person can still pass the virus to others. And if the others are not vaccinated, its a problem. So "cruises to nowhere" may be posible before long, visiting ports may not.

[Snore42]

Has anyone heard how the cruise lines will be obtaining and distributing the vaccine to the crew?    I would think the cruise lines are very far down the priority line for these vaccines.   Might get some clarity on resuming sailings, even to nowhere, once we have an idea on that front.  

[mrlevin]

7 minutes ago, Snore42 said:

Has anyone heard how the cruise lines will be obtaining and distributing the vaccine to the crew?    I would think the cruise lines are very far down the priority line for these vaccines.   Might get some clarity on resuming sailings, even to nowhere, once we have an idea on that front.  

Cash buyers are never too far down the list.  With SA stopping AstraZeneca, I am sure the cruise lines could pick up their allotment of doses.

[ronrick1943]

I for one wouldn't go any place without have taken the vaccine--I'd hope crews would have gotten the vaccine also.  United Airlines just stated all crew will have taken the vaccine (or they don't fly), that's a pretty heavy statement.

We get our 2nd shot this coming Saturday----better safe than sorry just to be on a cruise ship.

[casbar777]

Not good news, last night in the UK, the Government reported on another new strain, only a small number of cases so far, but it was also reported that the current vaccine has little or no protection on vaccinated people carrying and passing on the virus. Plus the current vaccine will only minimise the impact if caught. Lot more data and research to come, fingers crossed. And before everyone thinks the UK is the centre of new mutations, we happen to be one of the best at sequencing and are passing this tech onto other countries, which means these mutations are probably all over Europe and beyond, but they don't sequence so don't know which variant it is.

[Shippy]

Even in the U.S. it is going to take a very long time for all to get vaccinated.

We are in our 70's and just were able to get an appointment for our first shot at the end of this month. That means March before our 2nd.

   Most of my friends have not even been able to get appointments for their first yet.

Who even knows what month those under 65 (not first responders) will be able to start making appointments.

[Wizpharm2]

We are not having that issue in our state...about a week ago the age was lowered to 65 and older and folks are getting same day appointments.  All nursing home residents and staff have received their first dose are currently getting their second dose.

[tipsygirl]

We have had a major change in vaccine availability in the last couple of weeks in the Houston area. Increasingly more doses and more sites for getting a vaccination.  It was reported on local news that  there will be two Mega sites in the state by next week that will operate 7 days a week.  We seem to finally have a working system for distribution, but still lots of concern about access for people with no internet service or transportation. 

Several of our large hospital systems which were offering vaccinations "by Invitation only" to individuals who were in their system due to having used their services over the past two years, are now opening to others by appointment. We were fortunate to be on the invitation list and received our first dose last week. and have our second dose scheduled. So the vaccination front is looking better by the week.

 

Our next cruise is scheduled for December on Regent....the Carribbean. We are hoping that cruise lines will have crew members vaccinated, and would be happy if the vaccine were required for passengers. Since we will mainly be repeating ports we have visited previously we probably won't be getting off the ship very often ,if at all. 

We will continue wearing masks in public places especially while in route to and from the ship. We hope th eship will have sufficient precautions in place so that won't be necessary on the ship. 

[mrlevin]

tipsy, Houston has gotten the lion's share of Texas vaccine; 10% of total shots administered.  As for those not connected to the internet, please look out for those less fortunate.  We need to take care of those; not bemoan the state not doing enough.  Two of us on cc here worked to get a friend with no computer or smart phone or email address registered and local volunteers helped her fill out the paperwork and get it loaded in the system and she is getting her first shot in around two hours.  

 

My "large hospital system" was not one of those that were given doses so I had to be creative and went to a neighboring county.  Texas is doing about 1,000,000 doses per week and hopefully that will increase soon.  We will get there.

 

Marc

[ShropshireCritic]

8 hours ago, casbar777 said:

Not good news, last night in the UK, the Government reported on another new strain, only a small number of cases so far, but it was also reported that the current vaccine has little or no protection on vaccinated people carrying and passing on the virus. Plus the current vaccine will only minimise the impact if caught. Lot more data and research to come, fingers crossed. And before everyone thinks the UK is the centre of new mutations, we happen to be one of the best at sequencing and are passing this tech onto other countries, which means these mutations are probably all over Europe and beyond, but they don't sequence so don't know which variant it is.

As with all things “Covid” related we as a society must be careful that we don’t all try to offer better advice than the globally appointed experts such as the WHO.

The latest update from the WHO in the U.K. looks more positive as per below link.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56011981

[pappy1022]

One phrase in this article, and the only words that have been consistently used with COVID-19, is “that we don’t know”. It is in fact a novel virus and by definition it is a strain that we haven’t seen before. We do know that viruses mutate and adapt but with COVID-19 we don’t know (there it is again) how that will look and whether current vaccines will be as effective against these new mutations. We have learned a lot about COVID-19 but at the moment the virus seems to be 1 step ahead of us. That’s nothing new for viruses. They are always mutating and getting more efficient at spreading and infecting their hosts. That is their single purpose and unfortunately COVID-19 is darn good at doing so. IMO, we are still in for a long battle even as vaccines roll out in greater numbers. Herd immunity may be the only way to stop this beast.