Florida Governor bans Vaccine passports

[mredandchis]

5 hours ago, firefly333 said:

If carnival is the most economical cruise line please explain why their prices right now are higher than some other lines. Have you compared prices lately?

 

As far as all this talk of allowing cruises with 50 with covid ...not a chance that carnival will sail with that high of a risk. That's why they arent moving toward sailing. Let's give it another month or two and see if any sign of herd immunity. We are quickly getting to where almost anyone who wants the vaccine can get it. After that the picture will be clearer.

 

Unless carnival decides to sail from other islands which they said no to, probably not until Nov.  Not unless we see big inroads to stopping covid. We are only a few months into vaccines. Lots of time ahead of us. Frankly I dont know if vaccines should be required in nov, though I'm good with it. Not with a passport, but I'm good with showing my card to board. 

First of May start to watch individual states dropping new cases , hospitalizations and deaths.  It will not be THE answer but will be the beginning of the covid slide.  Then if they can get enough extra people vaccinated it will keep sliding down.  Trouble is in my mind, will we ever have enough herd immunity to feel good as a collective people.  Israel has 9.2 million people, they are battling 2 variants.  Yesterday they had 363 new cases ,  351 serious cases , 16 deaths and  842 recoveries.  They havent been in this good a shape since June 2020.  And they continue to improve

[nascarcruiser]

21 hours ago, DD fun said:

I agree that everyone has the right to chose rather or not to be vaccinated, but i for one would be very upset if my cruise was cut short if an unvaccinated person got sick on my cruise. By doing that they would be infringing on my rights.

And how would you know if it was a vaccinated or unvaccinated person that got sick? You can still get the virus if you are vaccinated. I know someone who was fully vaccinated in the first round of people who could be vaccinated and is in the hospital with Covid now.

[BlerkOne]

32 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

So nothing you can compare that shows carnival is cheaper, figures, just talking around the question. Carnival prices ARE up, though I'm thinking it's due to the $600 obc,. pax, either it's cheaper or it isnt. 

Nothing to do with $600. Supply and demand. Carnival can't arbitrarily raise prices. More people are booking Carnival. Other cruise lines might have given 125% FCC. Carnival sold off ships so until new ships replace lost capacity. No mystery. When steady state is reached, Carnival will be the value leader again, as I stated. 

 

32 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

 

[BlerkOne]

6 hours ago, firefly333 said:

. We are quickly getting to where almost anyone who wants the vaccine can get it. After that the picture will be clearer.

 

 

It isn't the supply, it is the delivery into arms that paints the picture.

[jfunk138]

1 hour ago, BNBR said:

 

Well, they would be the FIRST person, in the world, to be hospitalized due to COVID after being vaccinated.  Considering every vaccine has 100% effectiveness against hospitalization and death.  This person you know should be all over the world wide news...  It's a massive story if that's the case.  Please, call the local news, we need to get this breaking story out there.  The CDC also needs to be made aware immediately.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but at this point there's  quite a few post Vaccination Covid deaths reported.  Here's a story with some in Oregon:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20210328143732/https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/03/outbreaks-continue-in-some-oregon-senior-care-homes-after-vaccination-clinics-why.html

 

"At one facility, a resident got sick and died with COVID-19 more than two weeks after getting both shots of the vaccine, a facility director said."

 

"Two people who tested positive and died with COVID-19 symptoms in a recent outbreak at Life Care Center of McMinnville had at least one shot, said Kristy Runge, interim director of nursing. One of them tested positive 15 days after getting the second dose of the vaccine."

[firefly333]

Maybe someone can explain why this vaccine passport would be of use to a retiree like me. Other than cruising and flying I cant see where I would have use for one? I've heard some schools or sports events or movies, none of which I do. Where else might someone use one?

 

My parents only leave their house to go to doctors so they have even less use than me for one. My mom was already a hermit before covid and I shopped for them and did their driving. My dad is 102 and blissfully unaware of talk of them.

 

I feel like I missed the beginning of the conversation where it was explained why I'd want one? Where would this be used? Or its aimed at younger people? My vaccine card could let me board a cruise ship but other than that I'm at a loss what I'd use one for if I had it. Name something other than cruising or flying. I know of no use.

[BlerkOne]

36 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Maybe someone can explain why this vaccine passport would be of use to a retiree like me. Other than cruising and flying I cant see where I would have use for one? I've heard some schools or sports events or movies, none of which I do. Where else might someone use one?

 

My parents only leave their house to go to doctors so they have even less use than me for one. My mom was already a hermit before covid and I shopped for them and did their driving. My dad is 102 and blissfully unaware of talk of them.

 

I feel like I missed the beginning of the conversation where it was explained why I'd want one? Where would this be used? Or its aimed at younger people? My vaccine card could let me board a cruise ship but other than that I'm at a loss what I'd use one for if I had it. Name something other than cruising or flying. I know of no use.

 

If you don't go anywhere, why would you get a regular passport? You yourself listed several reasons for a vaccine passport. I assume it would also be used for booster info.

 

The paper cards are too easy to forge. As with the pandemic, it is a global concern and other counties are looking into. I wouldn't be surprised if required to enter other countries and vice versa.

[firefly333]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

If you don't go anywhere, why would you get a regular passport? You yourself listed several reasons for a vaccine passport. I assume it would also be used for booster info.

 

The paper cards are too easy to forge. As with the pandemic, it is a global concern and other counties are looking into. I wouldn't be surprised if required to enter other countries and vice versa.

Again my question was other than cruises and flying does anyone know of what this vaccine passport would be good for, for someone retired?

 

Anyone else know of anything? 

[jfunk138]

5 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Again my question was other than cruises and flying does anyone know of what this vaccine passport would be good for, for someone retired?

 

Anyone else know of anything? 

They will invent reasons.   If international travel is the only reason to get one, it's unlikely to convince many who are hesitant to get vaccinated.

 

But if they start requiring them to ride the bus or go to a restaurant (as some have proposed) that goes a long way into excluding folks from society.  

 

The slippery slope also shows them evolving into a China style social credit system where any behavior the government wants to discourage gets tracked: smoking, drinking, drugs, sugary foods, etc.  Do something unhealthy and watch as your privileges disappear.

[asalligo]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:32 PM, DD fun said:

I agree that everyone has the right to chose rather or not to be vaccinated, but i for one would be very upset if my cruise was cut short if an unvaccinated person got sick on my cruise. By doing that they would be infringing on my rights.

This may happen with vaccinated passengers, thousands of people nationwide are now reporting catching Covid post full vaccine. 126 in Louisiana, 89 in Minnesota, 3 in Hawaii, 97 in Idaho. They are trying to determine now how many in Florida and no one is talking about how large their testing block was for these cases. 

 

This was published only 8 days ago. 

 

"Speaking at a White House coronavirus task force briefing on Friday, Dr. Anthony Fauci says scientists are trying to answer the two most pressing questions for millions of Americans already fully vaccinated against COVID-19: Can they become infected without showing any symptoms, and if so, can they transmit the coronavirus to someone else?"

 

 

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

They will invent reasons.   If international travel is the only reason to get one, it's unlikely to convince many who are hesitant to get vaccinated.

 

But if they start requiring them to ride the bus or go to a restaurant (as some have proposed) that goes a long way into excluding folks from society.  

 

The slippery slope also shows them evolving into a China style social credit system where any behavior the government wants to discourage gets tracked: smoking, drinking, drugs, sugary foods, etc.  Do something unhealthy and watch as your privileges disappear.

I havent really heard what they will be good for. Even blerk the only reason she sees is because someone might do a fake vaccine card. 

 

If required for restaurants, wouldnt they have to hire someone to stand at the door of taco bell or denny's. Extra help means extra expenses to run the restaurant. Our busses here in dallas run very empty already. So now the bus driver would have to check a vsccine passport of boarding pax? Or make it like a credit card to be inserted, but then busses have to be refitted.

 

Deaths are dropping as more vaccines get into arms. It seems like just higher costs to all so far. Dubious benefit. My sister and bil and the ones who eat out all the time, but they already got covid in February. They didnt get vaccinated and now dont need it for a while, except to get this vaccine passport if they want to eat in? No way to know who had covid and should get a pass.

 

I just dont see how this would be workable. Added costs for businesses. Just to do this nationwide because some idiot might fake a vaccine card to get on my cruise or flight? Scratching my head. Waste of tax payer dollars. There is already a system for frequent flyers to board faster that could incorporate vaccine info. 

[jfunk138]

16 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I havent really heard what they will be good for. Even blerk the only reason she sees is because someone might do a fake vaccine card. 

 

If required for restaurants, wouldnt they have to hire someone to stand at the door of taco bell or denny's. Extra help means extra expenses to run the restaurant. Our busses here in dallas run very empty already. So now the bus driver would have to check a vsccine passport of boarding pax? Or make it like a credit card to be inserted, but then busses have to be refitted.

 

Deaths are dropping as more vaccines get into arms. It seems like just higher costs to all so far. Dubious benefit. My sister and bil and the ones who eat out all the time, but they already got covid in February. They didnt get vaccinated and now dont need it for a while, except to get this vaccine passport if they want to eat in? No way to know who had covid and should get a pass.

 

I just dont see how this would be workable. Added costs for businesses. Just to do this nationwide because some idiot might fake a vaccine card to get on my cruise or flight? Scratching my head. Waste of tax payer dollars. There is already a system for frequent flyers to board faster that could incorporate vaccine info. 

You keep saying that the reason is to "prevent fakes".  That is not the reason.  Does Real ID prevent fake IDs any better than a drivers license with the words "Not for Federal ID" on it?  This is about a central database to track people's "health behavior" and use it to deny them access to certain parts of society.

In terms of added costs for business.  Consider the choice for businesses:  block off half your tables and put up plexiglass vs.  hire another minimum wage employee to stand at the door and scan QR codes.  What do you think they'll pick?  From governments perspective, they just created "shovel ready" jobs!

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by jfunk138

[asalligo]

Vaccine Passports are wrong. It does not matter how much you can argue that they will protect public health. The government does not have the right to tell people that some can do some things and others cannot based on a medication they have taken. That is tyranny. You all have accepted government control for so long one right taken away at a time that this now sounds ok to you, but it is not. 

[crewsweeper]

And as someone locally asked?  Do we have to show our vaccine passports to vote, but not our DL ID?

 

for inside US use, these will be a major nuisance factor.  For outside US travel and for cruise ships under Phase 4, this would work like regular passports and may assist a ship getting cleared to enter a foreign port.

[firefly333]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

If you don't go anywhere, why would you get a regular passport? You yourself listed several reasons for a vaccine passport. I assume it would also be used for booster info.

 

The paper cards are too easy to forge. As with the pandemic, it is a global concern and other counties are looking into. I wouldn't be surprised if required to enter other countries and vice versa.

 

8 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

You keep saying that the reason is to "prevent fakes".  That is not the reason.  Does Real ID prevent fake IDs any better than a drivers license with the words "Not for Federal ID" on it?  This is about a central database to track people's "health behavior" and use it to deny them access to certain parts of society.

In terms of added costs for business.  Consider the choice for businesses:  block off half your tables and put up plexiglass vs.  hire another minimum wage employee to stand at the door and scan QR codes.  What do you think they'll pick?  From governments perspective, they just created "shovel ready" jobs!

 

You got me confused with blerk. I said she gave this as the reason. She repeatedly says it, not me.

 

I asked why get the passport and she went on and on about to prevent fakes I quoted. 

 

I personally dont worry about a few fakes. Please dont confuse me with her. She has said it about 10 times I've seen. Not me. Please dont say I keep saying it...i was quoting her and saying it's a dumb reason to spend so much money... I believe the opposite. Please reread her post and mine quoting her.

 

Dont put me in that box with her!!!! If you are going to quote me and say something, make sure you arent confused what I am saying!!! I do not care about fakes. Always a few idiots. There was a guy arrested at disney last weekend who wouldnt let them take him temperature..always someone. 

 

And I personally think all those plexiglass walls are dumb. My vote is neither as we get covid under control. That's the pt of vaccines I thought? Herd immunity so we dont have to do these things. 

[jfunk138]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

 

You got me confused with blerk. I said she gave this as the reason. She repeatedly says it, not me.

 

I asked why get the passport and she went on and on about to prevent fakes I quoted. 

 

I personally dont worry about a few fakes. Please dont confuse me with her. She has said it about 10 times I've seen. Not me. Please dont say I keep saying it...i was quoting her and saying it's a dumb reason to spend so much money... I believe the opposite. Please reread her post and mine quoting her.

 

Dont put me in that box with her!!!! If you are going to quote me and say something, make sure you arent confused what I am saying!!! I do not care about fakes. Always a few idiots. There was a guy arrested at disney last weekend who wouldnt let them take him temperature..always someone. 

 

And I personally think all those plexiglass walls are dumb. My vote is neither as we get covid under control. That's the pt of vaccines I thought? Herd immunity so we dont have to do these things. 

No worries, I agree it sounds like you never thought this was about fake IDs.  I agree with pretty much all you say here.

Be careful on the herd immunity front though.  Herd immunity will not be "zero cases", which seems to be what many here(Blerk) think it is.  Covid is likely to become endemic, like other common cold viruses, and will keep popping up seasonally everywhere, including cruise ships.  We will never get to "zero cases".  The point of the vaccine is prevent severe disease, not eradicate the virus entirely.

If "zero cases" is the goal, expect to see behavior like we got with "masks".  Any time cases pop up, they will claim we didn't "vax hard enough" despite our double and triple boosters, insufficient use of vax passports, etc.  It will always be about pointing the finger at your citizens and never about how the policy failed to achieve an unrealistic goal.

[Jelly_Toast]

On 4/3/2021 at 5:47 PM, Pyrate13 said:

I think he is right, if there are 2000 vaccinated passengers and 500 more that decided they don't want to be vaccinated then that's on them, not the rest of us. Why should I be concerned about them if they don't care about themselves? You make your choices and you suffer the consequences. 

Well, for me the concern is that several of these 500 bring COVID with them and it spreads and I'm stuck on a floating germ factory that is in quarantine and can't get home.  Maybe some people might think this would be okay but it's not like they would let the vaccinated passengers go while quarantining the rest. 

 

If the virus cannot be contained nobody is safe from the consequences.

[Butterbean1000]

I am not for the vaccine passports.  I don't see them as being feasible.  Its already a pain and expensive  to have them renewed every few years. Can you imagine the glut of new passports if that was implemented?  I'm all for people getting vaccinated, but I also understand those who don't for their own personal reasons.  Cruising had become our vacation of choice. I really don't see us ever cruising again. Not because you are or are not vaccinated,  but because I don't see it being the same. We have already moved on to other vacations, road trips and AI's. I am truly concerned about the whole cruising industry. I don't see it fully recovering and if it does, it just won't be the same.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by Butterbean1000

[Ellaleah]

I think vaccine passports are a great idea!  They are using them in Israel.  People show the vax passports and are allowed access into events and places that unvaxed  are not.  Worried about government knowing who is vaxed?  They gave us the vax.  They know.  This would just speed things up and allow those of us that are vaxed to feel safe.  Non vaxers should not be given the same privileges.  It is selfish not to get vaxed.  It seems to be that those who refuse are just waiting for the rest of us to be vaxed so that they can benefit from the herd immunity,which will come about from those that get vaxed.  Oh, and if you can’t get the vax, stay home.  It is not a constitutional or human right to cruise!  

[Earthworm Jim]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Again my question was other than cruises and flying does anyone know of what this vaccine passport would be good for, for someone retired?

 

Anyone else know of anything? 

 

It's unknown at this point. It all depends on what businesses decide they want to require them once they exist in quantity. Nobody is requiring one now because virtually no one has one.

 

Personally I doubt they'll ever be required for many things, cruises being a possible exception, but that's just speculation on my part.

[Earthworm Jim]

56 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I am not for the vaccine passports.  I don't see them as being feasible.  Its already a pain and expensive  to have them renewed every few years. Can you imagine the glut of new passports if that was implemented?

 

I don't think the vaccine passports would be anything remotely like a traditional passport. The only official one I know of is New York's Excelsior Pass, and that's free. It's just a phone app I believe.

 

https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/excelsior-pass

[zdcatc12]

3 hours ago, asalligo said:

This may happen with vaccinated passengers, thousands of people nationwide are now reporting catching Covid post full vaccine. 126 in Louisiana, 89 in Minnesota, 3 in Hawaii, 97 in Idaho. They are trying to determine now how many in Florida and no one is talking about how large their testing block was for these cases. 

 

This was published only 8 days ago. 

Since the vaccines are 95-98% effective and not 100%, that is probably actually better than 95% for those states. No one has ever said that the vaccines are 100% effective. Why does everybody jump on it when some people catch it after they have been vaccinated?

[jetsfan58]

23 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

It's unknown at this point. It all depends on what businesses decide they want to require them once they exist in quantity. Nobody is requiring one now because virtually no one has one.

 

Personally I doubt they'll ever be required for many things, cruises being a possible exception, but that's just speculation on my part.

Shouldn't it serve the same purpose as your current US Passport? I would think it's another form of identification and medical vaccine verification. Seems simple to me.  

[pe4all]

20 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

Shouldn't it serve the same purpose as your current US Passport? I would think it's another form of identification and medical vaccine verification. Seems simple to me.  

I agree - except for the fact that they are handwritten, with no bar codes, etc. (at least here in NY). Too easy to erase a name, photocopy the card, etc.

[Earthworm Jim]

Norwegian proposed requiring vaccinations for all passengers and crew to the CDC.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/florida-cruise-guide/os-bz-norwegian-cruise-line-require-vaccine-plan-cdc-letter-20210405-grncz4ogdnghfp7cwkvhtbwzei-story.html

 

If that plan gets accepted, I wonder if it increases to odds that Carnival would also require vaccination? Though the CDC finding a plan requiring vaccinations acceptable wouldn't prove that it wouldn't also accept a plan without that requirement.

 

I'm not clear on how Norwegian's proposed requirement fits with Florida's vaccine passport ban. Under that ban are they just banned from using one of those vaccine passports, or would having to prove your vaccination status with the card they give you at vaccination also be prohibited?