Face Masks and Cruising

[Xkontour98]

1 hour ago, D C said:

They're not controlled-exposure studies.  They don't take both groups and hose them down with covid to see what happens.  If they were, you would see something more akin to what we see in US right now:
~5000 identified breakthrough cases total in ~77 million vaccinated people across the country

Compare that with:

~50,000 identified covid cases last week in Michigan out of a population of ~10 million, about 1/3 of whom are either vaccinated or previously infected.

 

I missed that remark in my response. Thank you!

[BecciBoo]

I know one thing: I'm taking my "Keep back 6 ft and Stay Calm" mask and my Good Life Quarantiny shirt on my next cruise in September  Maybe I'll order one that says "Back Off" too.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by BecciBoo

[A&L_Ont]

34 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I think you're government should have opened their wallets to buy vaccines much like the US did. 

 

Canada has purchased a huge amount more than needed but did so late in the process. Here is a link to a news story to why our nation is where it is relating to vaccines. I have my thoughts which are not good ones, but won’t express them here.  After you read the article you will understand my anger and frustration.  
 

Please read the article and it will explain it all. It’s from Feb 5th, but not much has changed since then. 

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/how-ottawa-utterly-botched-canadas-covid-vaccine-acquisition

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[kearney]

11 hours ago, coffeebean said:

The failure of masking, IMHO, is that so many people do not wear their masks properly. Keeping the nose exposed is just like not wearing a mask at all. Why bother if you are still going to breath all over the place and not keep your aerosols contained?

I think you hit on something... many people do not wear proper masks (eg bandanas or shields instead of any mask ), they don't replace the quality masks with the regularity they should... they repeated touch the masks...which in theory could be covered with virus... they set them down on tables etc... pull them down from covering their noses... etc. We may never really know how well masks work because ....most of us don't use them properly and I suspect the longer you need to wear them over the course of a day.. the more you misuse them... they get hot..steam up glasses ..etc. The paper sited ...by the way is ..I believe a peer reviewed paper in a scientific journal. We are still learning as we go. Perhaps if people used masks correctly lock downs would have worked..but we are talking human beings.... or perhaps if people had opened windows, spent more time out in fresh air... we would have less spread. We won't know who did it "right" frankly...until the whole thing is over... and then in addition to evaluating covid success... we will need to balance that with what damage has been done to children... and general health..in terms of procedures not taken or tests not performed.... what a mess.

[BecciBoo]

I have an entire drawer full of masks, plus the paper N95 ones.  I sew so I've made a lot ala Pelosi ones. They have slits in back for charcoal filters.  I made ones with Flamingos (girls) and Sharks (boys) decorated with rhinestones for gifts for our Sept. cruise buds cruise baggies which I do every cruise.  I have always put the small Alcohol hand sanitizers, fragrance wax things to set out in the room and Clorox wipes....I was doing this years before Covid.  Yes its silly but so much fun.  The guys get new Tommy Bahama Ts.  One year they were Bromingos.....🤪  Cruising is such fun if you make it so.  Good luck to everyone now still booked, 🤞

Edited April 21, 2021 by BecciBoo

[d9704011]

16 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Canada has purchased a huge amount more than needed but did so late in the process. Here is a link to a news story to why our nation is where it is relating to vaccines. I have my thoughts which are not good ones, but won’t express them here.  After you read the article you will understand my anger and frustration.  
 

Please read the article and it will explain it all. It’s from Feb 5th, but not much has changed since then. 

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/how-ottawa-utterly-botched-canadas-covid-vaccine-acquisition

 

 

I beg to differ; in my opinion a lot has changed since early February.

 

Also, the NP has become the braying donkey of the Conservatives and I’ve their news, editorials and opinion pieces unbalanced and incomplete.

 

We can simply agree to differ and do our best to contribute to Ontario’s getting well.

[Tippyton]

44 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

You say something nice for a change then go and ruin it with your mask (and money) foolishness.

It wasn't unnice.  It was truth.  We here in TX dropped our mandates.  Canada didnt spend the money to preorder enough vaccines.  And I dont think Canada has any internal manufacturing capacity if I recall.

 

We can debate the needs for lockdowns, etc. but i think what were seeing is a certain level of community resistance (as opposed to herd immunity) for those areas that were less restrictive, and now the severe lockdowns are being lifted in the areas where folks were buttoned up and community resistance was never built up.  So they're paying the price so to speak.

 

And to be clear, even AU and NZ paid a price, it just looked different.  And they're still not in the clear.  Same for a lot of Europe.

[DirtyDawg]

11 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

What the hell is happening on a golf course that is causing it to be shut down? It's outdoors, It's non contact and you can certainly maintain six ft distance. 

 

It all boils down to the golf balls...

 

The three Titelist Pro V1's rolling around in our Premier's noggin. 😵

[BecciBoo]

You gotta watch this one!!  Extremely interesting:!  Look it up

You Tube "Cruising During Covid 19"

[atgood]

5 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

It wasn't unnice.  It was truth.

Exactly.  The truth hurts some time.  There are fast adapters, there are slow adapters, and there are those that won’t adapt.    Those that don’t risk getting left behind unless it ends up there was no reason to change to begin with. 
 

It may be slow going, but what works will become more apparent over time. 
 

[atgood]

Just now, atgood said:

Exactly.  The truth hurts some time.  There are fast adapters, there are slow adapters, and there are those that won’t adapt.    Those that don’t risk getting left behind unless it ends up there was no reason to change to begin with. 
 

It may be slow going, but what works will become more apparent over time. 
 

With new variant talk and the supposed need for a booster, I can see this dragging out another year if the public lets it. 

[atgood]

A lot of what we’re experiencing is our own environment.  10+ yrs ago I regularly got sick with head colds and other stuff (like 2-3x a yr) for 2 yrs.  Come to find out we had a faulty HVAC system with mold.  We got that corrected and I’ve only been sick 2-3x since.  

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

I beg to differ; in my opinion a lot has changed since early February.

 

Also, the NP has become the braying donkey of the Conservatives and I’ve their news, editorials and opinion pieces unbalanced and incomplete.

 

We can simply agree to differ and do our best to contribute to Ontario’s getting well.

I agree, we need to what is needed to contribute to making it better. It is about the people and sadly the actions of some are putting others at risk. That is all I have done for the last 13 months, safe actions. 
 

No matter the party in power federally I have my own thoughts. What goes through my mind is when Canada partnered with China, why didn’t we also order vaccines from all the major vaccine producers/companies the same day.
 

What would have happened had China not backed out on Canada and the coproduction vaccine only came back to be 20% affective?  We would not have found out until after human trials were complete and announced most likely last fall, when other manufacturers announced their results. We would have been in an even worse position than now for vaccines. Instead we ordered in early August and stand where we are at today. I only wonder what if Canada was receiving 2 million doses a week in January. We could be like England today VS where we are today. 
 

I don’t think anyone in Canada would be disappointed at the cost if we had ordered all those “extra” doses and everything had worked out perfectly with China. Being Canadian we would have sent them to those in need. As it stands, we ordered all those doses anyway but we are just later in getting them in comparison to what we could’ve been.  Who knows if the cost is more or less, that is unknown. The only thing we have lost is time in an important vaccine race.  I’m just sad/surprised that we put all our eggs in one basket up front instead of partnering with all manufacturers on day one of the vaccine race.  
 

In the meantime the vast majority of Canadians continue to do what needs to done, no matter their political views to keep people safe. At the same time there are others with different political views doing things that aren’t safe. It’s unfortunate and sad. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[crewsweeper]

52 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

 

 

And to be clear, even AU and NZ paid a price, it just looked different.  And they're still not in the clear.  Same for a lot of Europe.

It's uncertain, but COVID in some variant could be with us for a long time.  What is needed is an understanding of the risks versus the actual infections and deaths within the population of an area and the availability to mitigate that risk.  Most of the risk of COVID as we know it is relatively mild symptoms in most people.  There are those who do get severe symptoms and there are those where COVID has a direct impact on personal  immunity defenses which are battling other pre-morbid conditions, especially in elderly.  

But we know that COVID doesn't affect a majority of people (despite speculation that you have had it but don't know it) and that most people who get it recover without any issues.  For these two cohorts, vaccines and medicines to mitigate the symptoms are fine.  For those most likely to get severe cases, hospitals are now equipped to handle.  For those with pre-morbid conditions, proper masks, vaccines, and medicines can help but these are the ones who must take personal responsibility to avoid situation where they may get infected.  A good public education process vs the fear mongering would help here.

 

What missing from all of this is the elitist/managerial regulatory folks who are overly risk adverse and do not want to give up control.  

[TheMastodon]

13 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Masking in a restaurant when you are moving around, such as entering, exiting or going to the restroom is not cosmetic theater. It's all about being stationary while sitting and for people to be able to maintain a proper distance. When moving about, distancing becomes more difficult or unsuspecting. It makes sense to me why masking in a restaurant when someone is on the move is necessary and safer to take off the mask when a person is stationary while sitting.

 

Oh yeah I forgot - Covid19 goes away when we are eating without masks.  Right on

[DCGuy64]

Given that the CDC says 78% of Covid sufferers/victims (needing respirators, for instance, plus those who died) were overweight or obese, maybe people could take the opportunity to improve their own health instead of demanding everybody else stay home or be masked up all the time. Taking control of one's own health seems like a better solution than controlling everybody else.

There's a funny cartoon where a guy is at a podium in front of a crowd. He shouts "who wants to change the world?" Every hand goes up. Then "who wants to change himself"? No hands go up.

In short, it's always easier to say "everybody else needs to do X" instead of changing one's own behavior.

[D C]

13 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Masking in a restaurant when you are moving around, such as entering, exiting or going to the restroom is not cosmetic theater. It's all about being stationary while sitting and for people to be able to maintain a proper distance. When moving about, distancing becomes more difficult or unsuspecting. It makes sense to me why masking in a restaurant when someone is on the move is necessary and safer to take off the mask when a person is stationary while sitting.

Moving around (walking past other tables to use the restroom, for example) puts people in close proximity for a fleeting moment.  The chances of an inoculating dose of virus being exchanged in that brief time is very small compared with the chances of aerosol particles wafting from one table to the next over the course  of an hour+ dinner because the ventilation system happens to blow just enough to immerse the next table over.  

[Mapleleafforever]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

What confuses me is that Canadians have had tighter restrictions compared to Texas for awhile. Why are your numbers so much higher?

All starts with leadership. Our Prime Minister is a drama teacher who bungled up our vaccine procurement to embarrassing levels. He made a deal with the Chinese for vaccines early on and of course they reneged on the deal. Now we're taking vaccines from Covax which were meant for third world countries. 

 

Our Ontario Premier is a college dropout and former known drug dealer, you may know his infamous now deceased younger brother who was Mayor of Toronto.  He has ignored the experts from day 1 and instead has been playing politics and making poor decision after poor decision. One example of a poor decision would be to ignore known postal code hot spots and instead designating high income ridings that are held by their political party hot spots. 

 

It's all just so embarrassing really. 

[Mapleleafforever]

5 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

In Ontario right now your bubble is your immediate house hold. You are not to gather with anyone else.  You are not supposed to leave your house for other reasons except for groceries, medical appointments and work.  The government is imploring people to work from home if they can. 
 

The situation with golf courses overall is people are not playing with just those from their house, not wearing masks, and not staying 6’ apart. Last summer when the province was having nominal cases it didn’t really matter but now with variants running rampant the province said no.  No tennis, basketball, baseball are not allowed either at this time. Kids sports are not happening now, and nor did they last summer. 
 

I’m a member of a club and have seen it first hand.  I have also seen on FB photos of people I know together at clubs standing with arms around each other’s shoulders for group photos. They were not from the same household. It’s not everyone who is doing this but with a stay at home order for 6 weeks golf was added to the list this lockdown. Skiing was during the last one, and relaxed to be allowed after the lockdown was over. 

Spoke with my family Dr just yesterday about outdoor activities being cancelled. The only reason golf courses are closed is because it plays well with the Premier's base. 

 

They quickly overturned their playground closure because of backlash which was the right decision. 

 

I love how as soon as the Province spoke about additional Police powers the Police forces immediately set the record straight that they won't/can't be doing what the Province wants. Must remember our AG does not have a law degree......just another one in a long line of mistakes this Government has made. 

 

Don't even get me started on the Feds.....ugh

[sgmn]

3 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I think you're government should have opened their wallets to buy vaccines much like the US did. 

A lot of it is to do with raw ingredients and the supply chains.  Britain was very fast and early in ordering and buying several different types, but we've had problems and delays in supply 

Edited April 21, 2021 by sgmn

[Mapleleafforever]

4 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

America should be offering the AZ if we aren't using it. We share the same border. 

We would definitely accept it. As soon as our Province announced they were opening up AZ to those 40 and over the system crashed. We're all ready and willing and wait listed.......

 

 

[TheMastodon]

16 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

We would definitely accept it. As soon as our Province announced they were opening up AZ to those 40 and over the system crashed. We're all ready and willing and wait listed.......

 

 

I'm sitting in my office about 10 minutes from a warehouse of 30 million unused doses of Astra in

West Chester, Ohio.  Wish our leadership would be good friends and send to Canada or elsewhere who would get them in arms!  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-astrazeneca-united-states.html

[TheMastodon]

2 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

Oh yeah I forgot - Covid19 goes away when we are eating without masks.  Right on

 

Kind of like the Oscars this weekend - attendees must wear masks DURING COMMERCIALS or if they aren't on camera.  Wouldn't want their dumb opinions to be hindered by a pesky covid19 mask while accepting an award on stage now would we?  

 

Its ok, I'm sure they will be 6 ft apart. 

 

 

 

 

[A&L_Ont]

46 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Spoke with my family Dr just yesterday about outdoor activities being cancelled. The only reason golf courses are closed is because it plays well with the Premier's base. 

Maybe I misunderstand your DR’s comment. How does it benefit his conservative base?

 

Would it not go against his base to cancel golf?  Aren’t golfers supposed to be typically affluent based or at least have excess funds, the stereotypical view of golfers? Paying green fees, buying clubs, cart rental, members dues etc are not cheap for playing at even a city run course.  It only goes up from there. 
 

I find your DRs comment confusing as lawyers, Senior Union Reps, DRs, politicians, construction workers and people from all spectrums play golf.  They also vote different ways, if they even vote at all.
 

There is no political base for golfers that I am aware of.  One needs sufficient funds and time, and I don’t personally see many front line workers who earn minimum wage hitting the links frequently when they struggle to get by on a normal day.  These clearly are not his base either. 

Really, cruises are not much different. It attracts all types politically, but you need money to do it.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[A&L_Ont]

20 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

I'm sitting in my office about 10 minutes from a warehouse of 30 million unused doses of Astra in

West Chester, Ohio.  Wish our leadership would be good friends and send to Canada or elsewhere who would get them in arms!  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-astrazeneca-united-states.html

Yes they would be good friends as always and forever.  
 

I wish PM Trudeau would reach out to President Biden and come to an arrangement.  They both say we have a great relationship, and if they are sitting idle in that plant they would certainly be used here or anywhere else for that matter.  Canadians would certainly send our excess doses to others that would need them, that’s what we do.
 

The faster we are vaccinated the sooner our neighbours to the south can come and visit Canada again.  Maybe Alaska 2022 cruises can happen.🙂

Edited April 21, 2021 by A&L_Ont