Desantis Says Cruise Lines Cannot Require Any Proof of Vaccine for Cruises out of Florida

[rallydave]

27 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

They will require it...end of story.

Certainly hope you are correct but am concerned over the so many stupid politicians creating laws that will not allow anyone to provide this vital information. 
 

Too often stupid laws and decrees overcome common sense and cruise lines are limited in going against local state and federal authorities. The current laws executive orders etc need to change before ships sail from the US. 

[ronrick1943]

2 hours ago, Pcardad said:

They will require it...end of story.

One can only hope, common sense works.

[mrlevin]

1 minute ago, ronrick1943 said:

One can only hope, common sense works.

Not common sense; Article I Section 8 of the Constitution along with the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887; this whole discussion has been like a Shakespeare Play - Much Ado About Nothing.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

3 hours ago, mrlevin said:

Not common sense; Article I Section 8 of the Constitution along with the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887; this whole discussion has been like a Shakespeare Play - Much Ado About Nothing.

Would you care to explain this in simple terms for those of us who don't know the U.S. constitution?

[JMARINER]

2 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Would you care to explain this in simple terms for those of us who don't know the U.S. constitution?

Sure. Generally, Interstate and International commerce including passengers travel is controlled by the federal Government. Any state law that interferes with with US law in that regard is usually null and void. So if the US government says Covid passports to enter (or leave) the Country, the states can not overrule it.

 

J

[mrlevin]

Constitution says it is the Federal Government and not the states that regulate interstate commerce.  This is further extended in the Interstate Commerce Act to cover both interstate and International trade/commerce.  Although I am a big proponent of the 10th Amendment, that doesn't apply here, a State still does not have a right to control interstate or international commerce.

[rallydave]

13 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Constitution says it is the Federal Government and not the states that regulate interstate commerce.  This is further extended in the Interstate Commerce Act to cover both interstate and International trade/commerce.  Although I am a big proponent of the 10th Amendment, that doesn't apply here, a State still does not have a right to control interstate or international commerce.

Well yes the federal government would override the states that won’t allow asking for proof of vaccination; the problem is that the White House has stated the exact same thing confirming the states so in effect on this subject cruise lines at least departing US ports won’t be able to ask cruise passengers about Covid vaccinations thus the problem still exists. 

[mrlevin]

29 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Well yes the federal government would override the states that won’t allow asking for proof of vaccination; the problem is that the White House has stated the exact same thing confirming the states so in effect on this subject cruise lines at least departing US ports won’t be able to ask cruise passengers about Covid vaccinations thus the problem still exists. 

 

Dave, believe what you want.

[rallydave]

23 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Dave, believe what you want.

I believe what the facts are not what I want because I want cruising to begin with only people who have been vaccinated and proved and currently based on what has been done snd in work by many states and announced by the White House the cruise lines cannot ask or have proved people have been vaccinated against COVID.   Just the facts Jack. 

[Pcardad]

They will not cruise from the US if they cannot ensure 100% of passengers and crew are vaccinated. 

[SusieQft]

35 minutes ago, rallydave said:

I believe what the facts are

Proposals and statements of desire are not facts.

[ChucktownSteve]

5 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Would you care to explain this in simple terms for those of us who don't know the U.S. constitution?

 

Don't feel bad.  Many of our politicians who make the laws don't understand that document either. 😁

[Frncie]

6 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Would you care to explain this in simple terms for those of us who don't know the U.S. constitution?

No such thing as a simple explanation of the Commerce Clause. The main thing I remember about it was our Con Law professor waving his arms and screaming, “SHREVEPORT “!

[giustot]

8 hours ago, mrlevin said:

Constitution says it is the Federal Government and not the states that regulate interstate commerce.  This is further extended in the Interstate Commerce Act to cover both interstate and International trade/commerce.  Although I am a big proponent of the 10th Amendment, that doesn't apply here, a State still does not have a right to control interstate or international commerce.

Marc, you make a good argument that the federal government has the right to override any state bans on asking for proof of vaccinations. But I also think Dave has a good point.

 

I have heard no government official in either the Trump or Biden Administrations say that vaccinations should be required of any American. Why are we so sure a cruise line has the right to require proof of vaccinations when the country they're sailing from has no such requirement? Then again, if you're taking the cruise to a country that does require vaccinations, the cruise lines would have a more defensible reason for mandating vaccinations. 

[broberts]

6 hours ago, giustot said:

Marc, you make a good argument that the federal government has the right to override any state bans on asking for proof of vaccinations. But I also think Dave has a good point.

 

I have heard no government official in either the Trump or Biden Administrations say that vaccinations should be required of any American. Why are we so sure a cruise line has the right to require proof of vaccinations when the country they're sailing from has no such requirement? Then again, if you're taking the cruise to a country that does require vaccinations, the cruise lines would have a more defensible reason for mandating vaccinations. 

 

Does a cruise line not have a duty to implement the procedures it deems necessary for the safety of its passengers?

[Pcardad]

I think the point is the the cruise lines won't sail from the USA if the requirement is disallowed...they will sail from other countries instead and the vast majority of the US passengers will happily come to them.

[mmcguir]

The White House has said that there will be no federal Vaccine passport, which is not the same as saying businesses can set their own requirements. WH has said that the “market” will come up with a solution and they will work with relevant businesses to try to be helpful.  This is exactly what should happen.  “Clear” or some other company can come up with a passport, visa or whatever you want to call it,  and that can be voluntarily used by businesses (hotels, event venues, cruise ship operators) as a requirement for entry or as a way to get VIP treatment. The White House is not at all against private businesses requiring whatever they think is necessary for safe operation of their businesses.  It is Desantis and a couple of other state governors who are against this. Make no mistake about it: Desantis doesn’t want unvaccinated people to be denied access to enter cruise ships in Florida. This will set up protracted litigation and/or the cruise companies will vote with their feet, so to speak.  

[broberts]

Ultimately consumers are going to decide the issue, regardless of state, federal, or cruise line regulations. I suspect the majority will only cruise when either everyone aboard is vaccinated or "herd immunity" achieved.

[ronrick1943]

11 minutes ago, broberts said:

Ultimately consumers are going to decide the issue, regardless of state, federal, or cruise line regulations. I suspect the majority will only cruise when either everyone aboard is vaccinated or "herd immunity" achieved.

This makes total sense.

[rallydave]

26 minutes ago, mmcguir said:

WH has said that the “market” will come up with a solution and they will work with relevant businesses to try to be helpful.  This is exactly what should happen.  “Clear” or some other company can come up with a passport, visa or whatever you want to call it,  and that can be voluntarily used by businesses (hotels, event venues, cruise ship operators) as a requirement for entry or as a way to get VIP treatment

Completely disagree with this approach which will only keep the US from being part of the world.  The EU and other countries have concluded a common system developed in conjunction with the world governments needs to be implemented to serve the world and not just individual countries/states/businesses.  Waiting for the "market" to come up with a solution will only delay the implementation and provide us with competing systems.  Imagine how difficult it would be for personnel boarding people on ships, planes, trains, etc. to be familiar with many different systems regarding vaccine injections??

 

We have a world economy along with world wide travel and need a world wide verification system and not "market" solutions.  My belief and YMMV

[keokukjoe]

Breaking news:

"It is the news that many Americans have been waiting for; that they will be able to visit the EU over summer. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, told The New York Times in Brussels on Sunday that Americans who have been fully vaccinated, will be allowed to visit European countries over the summer."

Our State Dept. and EU officials in Brussels are now working together to make this happen. Good news.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

15 hours ago, keokukjoe said:

Breaking news:

"It is the news that many Americans have been waiting for; that they will be able to visit the EU over summer. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, told The New York Times in Brussels on Sunday that Americans who have been fully vaccinated, will be allowed to visit European countries over the summer."

Our State Dept. and EU officials in Brussels are now working together to make this happen. Good news.

Interesting to wonder where one would go and what you'd be allowed to do.  Many places are locked down pretty tight.  So before I ever did this, I'd want to know if museums and historical sites are open, whether restaurants or at least patios are operating, and whether travel between regions and/or countries is allowed. And I guess if you worry about your health at all, how overwhelmed are their hospital systems?

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Interesting to wonder where one would go and what you'd be allowed to do.  Many places are locked down pretty tight.  So before I ever did this, I'd want to know if museums and historical sites are open, whether restaurants or at least patios are operating, and whether travel between regions and/or countries is allowed. And I guess if you worry about your health at all, how overwhelmed are their hospital systems?

 

All good questions to ask before planning a trip.

 

Apparently individual countries in the EU are going to be able to set their own covid entry requirements. So one will have to check each country to be visited. I also wonder how volitile the entry requirements will be.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

All good questions to ask before planning a trip.

 

Apparently individual countries in the EU are going to be able to set their own covid entry requirements. So one will have to check each country to be visited. I also wonder how volitile the entry requirements will be.

Yes.  And of course, for most of us Canadians, we'll have to wait a while to be fully vaccinated and protected.  I'll just be happy if we can go to the States this fall!

[BBWC]

FDR appears to threaten to pull NCLH ships out of Florida if De Santis opposes vaccine mandate.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/norwegian-could-pull-ships-from-florida/