Norwegian Cruise Line Sends Reminder to CDC After No Response

[mnocket]

https://www.cruisehive.com/norwegian-cruise-line-sends-reminder-to-cdc-after-no-response/49771

 

Norwegian Cruise Line has still not received a response from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention after a letter was sent on April 5, 2021. The CDC has not replied to the cruise company, and now another letter has been sent requesting a response.

 

Even a simple response like... "We have received your letter and are reviewing your proposal for a return to cruising.  We expect to complete our review in approx. (fill in the blank) days/weeks/months/years", would at least show they cared.   Instead, zip.  Kinda discouraging.

[casofilia]

@mnocket

 

Have you ever tried to get a response from NCL to a request for information.   They don't do what you want CDC to do.  Pots and Kettles.

Your timetable is only 12 days.   It would be wonderful if NCL answered correspondence in 12 days!!!

[MoCruiseFan]

13 minutes ago, casofilia said:

@mnocket

 

Have you ever tried to get a response from NCL to a request for information.   They don't do what you want CDC to do.  Pots and Kettles.

Your timetable is only 12 days.   It would be wonderful if NCL answered correspondence in 12 days!!!

 

 

Actually I typically get a response to my requests within an hour or so when dealing with NCL.

 

[pmd98052]

5 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

 

 

Actually I typically get a response to my requests within an hour or so when dealing with NCL.

 

 

To a written letter asking that they change a policy?

[teacherman]

Just wondering...what percentage of American citizens/residents (CDC affected) don't really have any interest in whether or not cruise ships get started again?  How many have no interest in going on a cruise?  How many do not have the financial means, especially at this time, to go on a cruise?  Those of US who frequent these boards probably consider cruising a very important recreational part of OUR lives, but I would guess that the vast majority of American citizens/taxpayers have little, if any, interest in when ships can start back up.  I know that many people in some parts of the country have jobs tied to the cruising industry, but there are many people who HAD jobs tied to the sports, stadiums, theaters, concerts, etc. that are not currently taking place.  It may be possible that we see some cruising before we see a "normal" return to these other industries.  In many states, it is being reported that there is a shrinking "demand" for vaccines, even though it is available.  So, I don't look for a quick "back to normal" very soon for anything.  And, again, I point out that I have had 3 cruises canceled and am hoping my Africa cruise goes next January.

[harkinmr]

19 hours ago, mnocket said:

https://www.cruisehive.com/norwegian-cruise-line-sends-reminder-to-cdc-after-no-response/49771

 

Norwegian Cruise Line has still not received a response from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention after a letter was sent on April 5, 2021. The CDC has not replied to the cruise company, and now another letter has been sent requesting a response.

 

Even a simple response like... "We have received your letter and are reviewing your proposal for a return to cruising.  We expect to complete our review in approx. (fill in the blank) days/weeks/months/years", would at least show they cared.   Instead, zip.  Kinda discouraging.

They did get a response. Or at least an “implied” one. Cruise line execs met with the CDC on Monday the 12th at the White House and were given full opportunity to express their concerns about the CSO and talk about their ideas for a restart plan.  A working group has been established with HHS, the CDC and cruise line representatives for moving forward. The CDC reiterated in their statement about the meeting that cruises will need to restart within the CSO framework. NCL proposed that the CSO be eliminated. That is obviously not going to happen. But there will likely be modifications based on the working group’s efforts.  

Edited April 17, 2021 by harkinmr

[dexddd]

We had one issue about five years ago.  Tried contacting the department with issue a few times, no response.  Wrote HQ who replied they were sending back to department for action even after I detailed how they have not responded.  Five years later still nothing.

[ECCruise]

5 hours ago, pmd98052 said:

 

To a written letter asking that they change a policy?

And change a policy that could potentially affect the health of tens of thousands.

NCL is just whining here. The meeting at the WH to address various issues was a de facto response.

[mianmike]

9 hours ago, harkinmr said:

They did get a response. Or at least an “implied” one. Cruise line execs met with the CDC on Monday the 12th at the White House and were given full opportunity to express their concerns about the CSO and talk about their ideas for a restart plan.  A working group has been established with HHS, the CDC and cruise line representatives for moving forward. The CDC reiterated in their statement about the meeting that cruises will need to restart within the CSO framework. NCL proposed that the CSO be eliminated. That is obviously not going to happen. But there will likely be modifications based on the working group’s efforts.  

 

Thanks for the detailed info.  Could you post a link to the transcript of the meeting?  I can't locate one.  

[harkinmr]

10 minutes ago, mianmike said:

 

Thanks for the detailed info.  Could you post a link to the transcript of the meeting?  I can't locate one.  

Sorry, I do not have a link but I have set out the text below.  It was a statement made to Cruise Week.  It has also been talked about in various cruise line news publications and here in the Cruise Critic News section.

 

The CDC issued the following statement to Cruise Week this morning: "Experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and White House staff met with cruise industry leaders and executives to discuss the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) on Monday, April 12, 2021. Cruise industry leaders were able to provide input into the phases of the CSO, expressed frustration with the requirements, discussed the incorporation of vaccination requirements into restarting passenger voyages, and expressed the need to establish a working group with industry and CDC to work forward to resume cruising as soon as possible. Cruising will always pose some risk of COVID-19 transmission, and COVID-19 vaccines will play a critical role in the safe resumption of passenger operations. Cruise travelers represent a global population, and as more people are fully vaccinated worldwide, the phased approach of the CSO also allows CDC to incorporate these advancements into planning for the safe resumption of cruise ship travel. CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry and seaport partners to resume cruising following a phased approach required by the CSO. CDC and DHS senior leadership will begin meetings with cruise industry leaders starting this week. The objective of the meetings are to mutually review the top priority issues of the cruise industry to work out implementation details of the CSO, including the impact of vaccines and other scientific developments since the CSO was issued in October 2020. This goal aligns with the desire for the resumption of passenger operations in the United States by mid-summer, expressed by many major cruise ship operators and travelers."

Edited April 17, 2021 by harkinmr

[hallux]

10 hours ago, harkinmr said:

will need to restart within the CSO framework.

You mean restart within the framework which is not yet completely communicated?

 

"Sure, you can restart, just comply with the framework that we've set out.  Oh, you're saying you can't until we tell you everything you need to comply with?  You're right, we'll get around to telling you eventually".

 

It's almost as if they've contracted with a roofer to install a roof on a new house but nobody has dug the footings yet...

[harkinmr]

7 minutes ago, hallux said:

You mean restart within the framework which is not yet completely communicated?

 

"Sure, you can restart, just comply with the framework that we've set out.  Oh, you're saying you can't until we tell you everything you need to comply with?  You're right, we'll get around to telling you eventually".

 

It's almost as if they've contracted with a roofer to install a roof on a new house but nobody has dug the footings yet...

Within the framework set out in the Conditional Sailing Order from October of 2020.  The cruise lines have known what the expectations were since then.  They have been sitting back hoping the pandemic would go away.  It didn't. Then they start to get technical guidance and further definition of the requirements and all of sudden now it's unworkable or undoable and the only answer is to make the CSO go away.  It's too much time and too much money to comply.  It's too much oversight.  I'd be more impressed if they had actually given some thought as to how to meet the requirements set out some 5 months ago.

Edited April 18, 2021 by harkinmr

[hallux]

6 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Within the framework set out in the Conditional Sailing Order from October of 2020.  The cruise lines have known what the expectations were since then.

Which, I believe, were incomplete.  With the recent release of guidance for the terminal and gangways (the 12 hour "buffer" required between disembarking and embarking passengers, which is DEFINITELY not workable) indicates the guidance in October was NOT complete.  The CDC director even said this was the guidance for "phase 2A" or something like that, out of 4!

[HaveWeMetYet]

With Covid cases back on the rise you can forget the CDC allowing cruising to start back up in the US. It is dead in the water (LOL). I would not even be putting money and time into any cruise schedules anywhere in the world right now. Covid most everywhere you look except the UK and Israel is ramping back up, even reaching new highs in many places. Japan may cancel the Olympics as there cases are rising rapidly.

[CoffeeGoddess]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

Which, I believe, were incomplete.  With the recent release of guidance for the terminal and gangways (the 12 hour "buffer" required between disembarking and embarking passengers, which is DEFINITELY not workable) indicates the guidance in October was NOT complete.  The CDC director even said this was the guidance for "phase 2A" or something like that, out of 4!

 

It is not incomplete. harkinmr and chengkp75 have been posting about this for some time. The cruise lines were provided with what they need to do and provide to the CDC to move onto the next phase and what was then required for the next three. As Chengkp75 states:  "They (the cruise lines) have presented a plan for mediation of covid among crew and have met the first phase of the CDC's requirements for conditional sailing.  What part of the conditional sailing order has not been met?  Just a couple of examples would be the contracts and agreements with ports and local health care systems, transportation systems, and accommodation industry to provide standby care in case the ship needs to disembark, treat, transport, or quarantine passengers.  Next would be the simulated cruises.  As for a "plan", no, they have submitted recommendations from an advisory panel, not the detailed action/remediation plan, listing specific procedures, and specific actions by crew, passengers, and company, in various scenarios.  Compare the Healthy Sail Panel (which is what I assume you are referring to as a "plan") to the VSP to see the vast difference in level of detail in each document.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

Which, I believe, were incomplete.  With the recent release of guidance for the terminal and gangways (the 12 hour "buffer" required between disembarking and embarking passengers, which is DEFINITELY not workable) indicates the guidance in October was NOT complete.  The CDC director even said this was the guidance for "phase 2A" or something like that, out of 4!

The 4 phases were included in the initial CSO.  You may want to go back and read it.  Each phase was laid out in detail in the CSO with further technical guidance to follow.  Crew testing and transportation; preparation of shoreside agreements and submittal of plans for restart; submittal of final cruise line protocols for feedback and approval, with test cruises to test protocols; and, finally, application for a certificate of approval to sail. 

 

The cruise lines have already been complying with phase 1.  So they obviously knew what was required there.  They could have been working on preliminary plans and letters of intent with port authorities, hospitals and quarantine facilities for phase 2, subject to final signing.  Phase 3 is submittal of final planned protocols to be used in the restart and test cruises for compliance: there has never been anything definitive submitted by the cruise lines (and the NCL/RCG Health Protocol Panel "recommendations do not count as final) and they have been reluctant to post them online because concerns about cruiser feedback.  They have also not submitted anything regarding how they would conduct test cruises.  As it turns out, they do not want to do that. 

 

There is plenty they could have been doing.  As I have said above, I firmly believe they didn't think the pandemic would last as long as it has, and HHS would lift the public health emergency declaration.  HHS didn't and the order has now been extended to July 21st.  If the cruise lines want to wait for the pandemic in this country to be over, vaccines to be fully administered and herd immunity to be established, they are welcome to do that.  However, if they want to sail from the US at any date before that they will have to comply with the framework. The good news is that the cruise lines and the CDC met with each other at the White House on April 12th and are proceeding in talks to get cruising started mid-summer.

[Trimone]

From what I’ve been hearing about a third wave of Covid-19 in September, an Indian variant going rampant, I think we are a long way from safe sailing.

[ECCruise]

12 hours ago, hallux said:

 

 

It's almost as if they've contracted with a roofer to install a roof on a new house but nobody has dug the footings yet...

Actually, that is exactly how it is done.  Subs are lined up before ground is even broken.