Why Celebrity suites over luxury lines?

[PSU]

We did our first Regent cruise from Auckland to Bali two years ago and it was wonderful. Business class airfare, three day pre-cruise in Auckland all included, as well as tips, drinks, speciality restaurants, and excursions.  There was a theater with entertainment every night as well as lectures.

We are going to South America and Antarctica in January.

We also are doing CelebrityBeyond next year.

Try Regent. It is outstanding.

[jagoffee]

4 hours ago, ExArkie said:

This was a screening method - look at the various sailings, then use the lowest price amongst the offerings for one line to compare against the lowest price for other lines. So, the price I was using came from the "Retreat" price listed on the "Find a Cruise" postings on the Celebrity Web site. Presumably, that would be an S2 or perhaps a guarantee Sky Suite, if such things are offered.

 

At the time I did the comparison - about six weeks ago, now - the lowest Retreat listing for Celebrity was May 30, 2022, which was 12 nights on Silhouette. For comparison purposes, I took the line that offered the most inclusions - Regent, which at the time also included business class airfare (don't know if that is always done with them) - and factored in the additional items' cost (estimated business airfare, excursions - but not necessarily one for every port - drinks, wifi, etc.). Of the list of 22 sailings that I listed, Celebrity came in at the highest total cost with all the extras added (remember, this was for comparison purposes - what does one get for one's money). They were roughly middle of the pack (13th) in terms of per night pricing. The 7-night sailings were most expensive per night, with the leaders in per night cost being Regent, Seabourn, Silversea, Cunard, and Windstar. It should also be noted that some of the Oceania and Crystal sailings came in on the upper end of per night pricing, but other sailings from those two were well below the per night price I had for Celebrity.

 

I have not revisited the numbers, having pretty much decided the Baltic cruises for 2022 were all overpriced and we can wait to see what 2023 brings. I did, however, just do a quick check on Celebrity's Web site and saw that the one I listed has increased in price (lowest Sky Suites sold out, maybe), but there is an Apex 12-night Baltic listed for about the same as the Silhouette sailing I considered. Problem with dynamic pricing models is that by the time I compile the data and analyze it, everything is already out of date.

Very impressive.  Thank you for the explanation.  

[LGW59]

33 minutes ago, PSU said:

We did our first Regent cruise from Auckland to Bali two years ago and it was wonderful. Business class airfare, three day pre-cruise in Auckland all included, as well as tips, drinks, speciality restaurants, and excursions.  There was a theater with entertainment every night as well as lectures.

We are going to South America and Antarctica in January.

We also are doing CelebrityBeyond next year.

Try Regent. It is outstanding.

Yes I think I am going to do this.  Current Celebrity for 5/26/2022, similar itinerary on Regent, not as many sea days as I like but WTH, what is included has me going there.  Regent Scandinavia/Russia has only one sea day but that is def OK.  With what they include overall, I just have to give it a try.  Not just here on CC, but reviews I have been looking at are off the charts.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

OTOH, the ship within a ship concept just got another big upgrade as Norwegian announced their new Prima class of ships with 107 Haven suites located at the aft of the ship and major upscaling of many aspects of the ship.  If you travel with kids, this would be much more appealing than a luxury line.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6106/

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

OTOH, the ship within a ship concept just got another big upgrade as Norwegian announced their new Prima class of ships with 107 Haven suites located at the aft of the ship and major upscaling of many aspects of the ship.  If you travel with kids, this would be much more appealing than a luxury line.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6106/

I like what WC Fields said about kids...

[ChucktownSteve]

8 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I like what WC Fields said about kids...

 

Parboiled, Fried or neither seen or heard?

 

I booked our excursions last night for next May's 15 night cruise.  We're signed up for 21 excursions between the two of us included at no extra cost. We could have taken more but my DW instead wants to get together with her girlfriends while in Charleston because we used to live there and we didn't select all that we could have at a couple of other ports.   

 

Add that to your Celebrity cost comparison.  One tour even includes a lobster lunch in Halifax. If the excursions averaged a $75pp value , which I suspect is a little low, I estimate the value at over $1,500. We also still have $1,300 OBC and a TA $1,200 cash rebate. Celebrity couldn't compete at the time we booked this Concierge suite.

Edited May 13, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[jagoffee]

4 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Parboiled, Fried or neither seen or heard?

 

I booked our excursions last night for next May's 15 night cruise.  We're signed up for 21 excursions between the two of us included at no extra cost. We could have taken more but my DW instead wants to get together with her girlfriends while in Charleston because we used to live there and we didn't select all that we could have at a couple of other ports.   

 

Add that to your Celebrity cost comparison.  One tour even includes a lobster lunch in Halifax. If the excursions averaged a $75pp value , which I suspect is a little low, I estimate the value at over $1,500. We also still have $1,300 OBC and a TA $1,200 cash rebate. Celebrity couldn't compete at the time we booked this Concierge suite.

As you may recall my last cruise (seems like years ago, but it was in January 2020) was on a 14 day Regent cruise.  Many positives things about the cruise, but we really did not like the excursions included aspect.  We felt like we needed  to take an included excursion at each port. (Which we usually do not).  Also we missed one excursion because we could not anchor due to the weather conditions.  Our cruise was our annual January “get out of the cold” Caribbean cruise.  We may have felt different if the ports were new for us.  
You will judge for yourself.  There is no doubt that the non suite experience on Regent is significantly superior to the non suite experience on Celebrity.

 

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, jagoffee said:

As you may recall my last cruise (seems like years ago, but it was in January 2020) was on a 14 day Regent cruise.  Many positives things about the cruise, but we really did not like the excursions included aspect.  We felt like we needed  to take an included excursion at each port. (Which we usually do not).  Also we missed one excursion because we could not anchor due to the weather conditions.  Our cruise was our annual January “get out of the cold” Caribbean cruise.  We may have felt different if the ports were new for us.  
You will judge for yourself.  There is no doubt that the non suite experience on Regent is significantly superior to the non suite experience on Celebrity.

 

 

I understand how you feel. We've always booked private excursions, even with other CC members on the same roll call. So it would be a good change to try the prearranged tours to compare. I suppose I have to try it to see if I don't like it.  It is a nice change of pace just to pick em instead of researching em. Besides it gets us off the ship for a couple of hours. In one port I'm taking an excursion while my DW is booked on a different one. That's flexibility to do what we enjoy.

 

Why did you call them non suite experience?

[jagoffee]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

I understand how you feel. We've always booked private excursions, even with other CC members on the same roll call. So it would be a good change to try the prearranged tours to compare. I suppose I have to try it to see if I don't like it.  It is a nice change of pace just to pick em instead of researching em. Besides it gets us off the ship for a couple of hours. In one port I'm taking an excursion while my DW is booked on a different one. That's flexibility to do what we enjoy.

 

Why did you call them non suite experience?

Let me know your feelings about the shore excursions after your cruise.  We may have had a different opinion if we had not been to all of the ports multiple times.

 

I believe that the difference in the Regent experience is very significant when compared to not cruising in a suite on Celebrity.  The RS and above experience is hard to beat from our experience.  The Retreat and the extras that come with all Celebrity suites narrows the Regent advantage.

As I recall you got a great deal on your Regent cruise.  The dining experience on Regent is amazing.  

[ChucktownSteve]

41 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Let me know your feelings about the shore excursions after your cruise.  We may have had a different opinion if we had not been to all of the ports multiple times.

 

I believe that the difference in the Regent experience is very significant when compared to not cruising in a suite on Celebrity.  The RS and above experience is hard to beat from our experience.  The Retreat and the extras that come with all Celebrity suites narrows the Regent advantage.

As I recall you got a great deal on your Regent cruise.  The dining experience on Regent is amazing.  

 

We have an S1 aft facing corner suite on Apex this Feb and then Regent's smallest ship Navigator next May.  In Sept '22 we step up to the Mariner in a Penthouse and the Splendor Jan '23 in Concierge again.  That should give us a good comparison.

 

We've only sailed Celebrity up to Concierge and AQ On Century, Millie and Solstice class ships.  After becoming disillusioned with the death by a thousand cuts under LLP, we sailed AZ and Oceania.  They were better IMO.  I found I preferred the intimacy of the smaller ships with better food and service.

 

The food and staff cuts on Celebrity really turned us off.  However we decided to try a suite on E class to see if it was a better experience.  But in the process we tripped over Regent when the Celebrity pricing became astronomical. I found the value proposition was too great not to try Regent.  The food quality and staff ratio helped seal the deal...not to mention the promotions at the time.

 

Last year I changed our spending paradigm when I realized why save what we've built to leave it to nieces and nephews?

 

You said The Retreat and the extras that come with all Celebrity suites narrows the Regent advantage.  I looked at it the other way.  With Celebrity raising the prices so close to Regent, why not take advantage of a real luxury cruise line for a similar price but with better value included?

 

Hopefully I won't be disappointed in any of our choices. I expect even the Apex will be a wonderful experience.

 

Oh BTW now I get it. The non suite is the experience outside the cabin! lol

Edited May 13, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[Orator]

9 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Parboiled, Fried or neither seen or heard?

 

I booked our excursions last night for next May's 15 night cruise.  We're signed up for 21 excursions between the two of us included at no extra cost. We could have taken more but my DW instead wants to get together with her girlfriends while in Charleston because we used to live there and we didn't select all that we could have at a couple of other ports.   

 

Add that to your Celebrity cost comparison.  One tour even includes a lobster lunch in Halifax. If the excursions averaged a $75pp value , which I suspect is a little low, I estimate the value at over $1,500. We also still have $1,300 OBC and a TA $1,200 cash rebate. Celebrity couldn't compete at the time we booked this Concierge suite.

The problem for Celebrity is as prices rise and perceived value goes down other lines become more attractive.This thread demonstrates that many have gone, or plan to go in that direction. Not a problem if they can still fill the ships, but a major problem if they can't. A decision to leave the line you've loved is very difficult, but once you decide to change you rarely return. At least that has been the pattern with me.

[ChucktownSteve]

38 minutes ago, Orator said:

The problem for Celebrity is as prices rise and perceived value goes down other lines become more attractive.This thread demonstrates that many have gone, or plan to go in that direction. Not a problem if they can still fill the ships, but a major problem if they can't. A decision to leave the line you've loved is very difficult, but once you decide to change you rarely return. At least that has been the pattern with me.

 

I have never emotionally attached myself to inanimate objects whether it was houses, businesses or cruises lines.  While I enjoyed them while with them, I have always moved forward not backwards.  My loyalty is to my values and enjoyment.  If Celebrity can deliver that then they are included in the process again. 

 

However Celebrity has been moving in this direction for a long time.  Calling themselves luxury but cutting corners.  When they're not cutting corners, they're charging for it or raising prices.  I understand the business of increasing the bottom line in a changing economy. However I believe the forced increased pricing for AI may come back to bite them where it hurts...in the pocketbook.

 

No matter what they do or think they are, because of the size of their ships, they're still a mass market line.  They physically can't do what the true luxury cruise lines do. They can't offer the level of quality and staff ratio.

 

The real problem is that if they've chased off a large number of their formally loyal customers to try other lines, I agree with you it will be hard for them to return. The only saving grace will be if the people booking at higher prices offset or surpass the revenue lost by those abandoning ship.

 

In business it has always cost less to retain an existing customer then to attract a new one with the acquisition cost.

Edited May 13, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[goofysmom99]

43 minutes ago, Orator said:

The problem for Celebrity is as prices rise and perceived value goes down other lines become more attractive.This thread demonstrates that many have gone, or plan to go in that direction. Not a problem if they can still fill the ships, but a major problem if they can't. A decision to leave the line you've loved is very difficult, but once you decide to change you rarely return. At least that has been the pattern with me.

Assuming I reach the next step of Captain's Club in 2022, apart from applying the value of the free cruise toward something, there will be absolutely no reason for me to book X again unless it's a last minute booking.  I will not continue to pay for double wifi, bevs, and gratuities along with the double-priced cabin.  Last minute, I think I'd only be paying out of my pocket for one gratuity.  My remaining suite bookings for next year aren't exorbitant (solo per diems are Equinox CS $875, Silhouette S1 $674, Constellation S1 $575); that's why I'm hanging onto them for now.  2023 absolutely will be new cruise line(s) = Crystal (if they survive), Oceania, Regent, Silversea, or Azamara. I'm already there in my head...body and Visa card soon to follow.

Edited May 13, 2021 by goofysmom99

[goofysmom99]

10 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

In business it has always cost less to retain an existing customer then to attract a new one with the acquisition cost.

Amen.  That was my business mantra.  It is/was why I can cruise now.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

1 hour ago, goofysmom99 said:

Assuming I reach the next step of Captain's Club in 2022, apart from applying the value of the free cruise toward something, there will be absolutely no reason for me to book X again unless it's a last minute booking.  I will not continue to pay for double wifi, bevs, and gratuities along with the double-priced cabin.  Last minute, I think I'd only be paying out of my pocket for one gratuity.  My remaining suite bookings for next year aren't exorbitant (solo per diems are Equinox CS $875, Silhouette S1 $674, Constellation S1 $575); that's why I'm hanging onto them for now.  2023 absolutely will be new cruise line(s) = Crystal (if they survive), Oceania, Regent, Silversea, or Azamara. I'm already there in my head...body and Visa card soon to follow.

 

I should have made Zenith in 2020.  We all know how that went.  And now everything in 2021 is cancelled.  Given the rapidly escalating suite prices and Celebrity's lovely practice of stiffing solos for two of everything, I doubt that will happen now.  Will certainly be checking other alternatives.

[Covepointcruiser]

When did all the Celebrity cruises for 2021 get canceled?!   

[ShawninFL]

45 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

I should have made Zenith in 2020.  We all know how that went.  And now everything in 2021 is cancelled.  Given the rapidly escalating suite prices and Celebrity's lovely practice of stiffing solos for two of everything, I doubt that will happen now.  Will certainly be checking other alternatives.

This is definitely an area where Celebrity screws the single traveler.  And now with Always Included, which we like as we would purchase the options a la carte if not included, the single traveler is paying for two of these "packages".  If I were traveling solo, I would definitely be looking at better solo deals.

[kirtihk]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:23 PM, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

There's no getting off the ship without a guide or a tourist visa in St. Petersburg.  Hire a private guide.  They're excellent and will handle the visa requirements for you.  No waiting in lines at the Hermitage either with a good private guide.  Ours also got us wonderful tickets to the ballet.  Not the one they send the tourists to.  Fabulous experience.

Memories...  I was born a few hundred yards from the ballet theater (Mariinsky).

 

Back to the topic: we had 9 Celebrity cruises (liked all of them) starting 2001 and 20+ on other "regular" cruise lines.  Then we had a cruise on March 8, 2020 on Ponant, and even though we "stuck" on it for extra 4 days, it was  great experience regardless of not being able to leave the ship after first 3 days in Easter Island tours from zodiacs to the land (nevertheless, we had a nice zodiac 2-hour tour around the tiny Pitcairn Island and circled around Tahiti, Bora Bora and others for 5 days at the end).  We liked Ponant so much, so we booked another  Ponant cruise on Seychelles.  Unfortunately, we've been rescheduling this cruise with different itineraries around the globe 5 times so far (now in progress of switching to July 2022 from Nice to Istanbul)!  This is a unique cruise line with the best special itineraries, ships (expedition yachts), Marina platform, French food, and more.

[alibaba1]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:15 PM, WonderMan3 said:

Same. Also, I like the more casual vibe of Celebrity and the relaxing of the strict dress codes of the past. Some of these luxury lines seem too stuffy for me.

Really? We have sailed on Regent and Oceania 7x. Two cruises coming up next year. 
No formal nights, dress is country club casual, and the food is tremendous.
Maybe, take another look. 🙂

 

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

18 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

When did all the Celebrity cruises for 2021 get canceled?!   

The ones I had booked are canceled.  I should have been more clear.  Sorry.

[mac_tlc]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:26 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

OTOH, the ship within a ship concept just got another big upgrade as Norwegian announced their new Prima class of ships with 107 Haven suites located at the aft of the ship and major upscaling of many aspects of the ship.  If you travel with kids, this would be much more appealing than a luxury line.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6106/

For Ha Ha's , I picked a week in January 2023 (weekend of 1/22 , 1/23) and did a quick comparison between Norwegian Prima (cheapest Haven suite), the Celebrity Beyond (S2), Celebrity Apex (S2) and Harmony of the Seas (Grand Suite and Crown Loft). I picked the Harmony because it leaves from Port Canaveral which will be the Prima's homeport. Two people, with Diamond Plus on RCCL and Elite on Celebrity

 

In order, from most expensive to cheapest (that's a funny word to use with these prices....)

 

Norwegian Prima , Haven Suite - $9,937

Harmony of the Seas, Crown Loft - $9,027

Celebrity Beyond, S2 - $8,566

Celebrity Apex , S2 - $7,429

Harmony of the Seas , Grand Suite - $7,074

 

They include :

Prima - Gratuities, drinks, specialty restaurants, WiFi, excursions

Beyond & Apex - drinks, WiFi, gratuities, $600 OBC

Harmony of the Seas - WiFi 

 

 

mac_tlc

 

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

One thing I noticed in The Haven on Prima is the large number of suites that accommodate 4, 6 or even 8 people.  Other ships on your list may also have this, as I don't usually pay much attention – but I was quite struck by how many such suites are on Prima.  This is good for families who want luxury.  But until we start getting reviews of Prima sailings, I would worry about how noisy The Haven area will be if there are lots of families filling those suites.  It will also raise the number of Haven guests well about the 214 that you might expect (based on 107 suites).  But it is good that there is now a family/luxury choice available.

[islandchick]

Would you really consider NCL to be luxury, suites or not? Don't think so. I have read the reviews and they don't seem to fit.

[Roger88]

2 minutes ago, islandchick said:

Would you really consider NCL to be luxury, suites or not? Don't think so. I have read the reviews and they don't seem to fit.

NCL has always been about luxury cruising. The only problem is that some people simply dont understand what luxury cruising means 

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 minutes ago, islandchick said:

Would you really consider NCL to be luxury, suites or not? Don't think so. I have read the reviews and they don't seem to fit.

This used to be true, but take a look at the reveal of their new ship.  They are pulling themselves up in the world.  IMO we will see this a lot, because there is no money to be made selling cheap cruises.  That's why Celebrity is adding more suites, MSC is enlarging the Yacht Club and planning 1,000 passenger luxury-only ships, and the luxury-expedition area is exploding [think of the upgrade from Xpedition to Flora].