Dress Code

[PrincessLuver]

3 hours ago, The Greater Fool said:

Knowing that it will not change a single mind, nor with that intent...

 

Princess is offering a SHARED vacation experience where Princess establishes the atmosphere and expectations each passenger can expect.  Princess is clear about standards of dress and behavior that every passenger is expected to maintain so that every passenger gets the atmosphere and experiences promised.  If you can't abide by the standards Princess publishes up front then perhaps this sort of shared vacation experience may not be for you.

 

By way of a examples:

 

The ships smoking policy established what the shared vacation will be like.  Smoking is not allowed in cabins or in public areas except the very few locations explicitly permitted.  Well, I for one don't go on vacation to be denied simple pleasures.  I couldn't smoke at work for 30 years, so I'm not going to be forced not to smoke on vacation.  If I smoke in my stateroom it's not going to affect anyone else.  

 

Dress codes and arguments against following them are the same.  We agreed to it.  Princess even provides means to not dress formally on formal nights: Don't eat in the dining rooms.  But, people want their way even when they agreed to something else... because they can get away with it and there's nothing other passengers can do about it, so there!

 

The only reason this is a topic is because of Princess enforcing some rules and not others.

 

Violate smoking policy and Princess is there to remind you of the rules.  Do it enough and you'll be invited to leave the ship.  No two ways about it.

 

On formal nights if Princess denied entry to MDR, directing people to other non-formal venues for dinner EVERY SINGLE TIME, then it's not an issue. Eventually people will understand Dress code will be enforced so it will become the violator's problem instead of our problem.  Eventually we will ALL get the formal environment we signed up for.  

 

This is only an issue because Princess made it an issue.  People are selfish and will try to get away with anything they can.  Princess let them get away with it.

 

And, before anyone tries... Wanted what we all agreed to is not being selfish, it's fulfilling our agreements.

 

But, the dress code ship has sailed.  Princess needs to make a change one way or the other: Enforce the expectation or remove the expectation. 

 

Makes me wonder what Princess gets out of this lack of clarity end resulting drama.  As long we we blame each other, Princess get's to promise one thing and deliver another.

 

 

It seems to be only an issue and crisis on CC..... on all of the hundred of days we have spent cruising on Princess never once have we had any friends or family notice what others were wearing on Formal Nights or even care..... I guess we are having too much fun to let others interfere with that..... judge on!

[satxdiver]

I see we are getting back to normal with silly clothes posts.  Now if the ships would just get back and start to sail with live pax.  

[KeepCalmBearOn]

11 hours ago, BridgeMates said:

 on most cruises it's the Hawaiian-style shirt that I'm talking about as most people don't have a true guayabera.

 

Hawaiian shirts are called "Aloha Shirts" and look nothing the shirts from Latin America.

 

23 hours ago, dave_k58 said:

I still don't know what " smart" shorts means

 

Then you are being willfully obstinate.

 

On 5/22/2021 at 5:15 PM, brisalta said:

A "sports coat" is not a blazer. A blazer has patch pockets.

 

Perhaps I should have said sports coat/blazer, but not all blazers have patch pockets. Double breasted blazers have flap pockets. The distinction remains between an unmatched coat and slacks vs a suit or tuxedo.

 

10 hours ago, iancal said:

I mean really, how good can it be if your big issue on a cruise is what some other complete stranger wears or does not wear?

 

You miss the point of the original question, which was pretty simple. As someone else pointed out, before you get on the ship you know what the expectations are for nighttime dining in the MDR and on formal nights. You should adhere to what is requested. Princess should enforce the expectations.

 

10 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

This has been our experience too......it is much more causal then formal.....and a really lots of outdated and old fashioned formal clothes too on many men and women.......

 

That seems to be nothing but a catty comment.

 

6 hours ago, mtnesterz said:

Try getting into the Magic Castle next time you're in L.A. without a coat and tie. Likewise a high end steakhouse in many cities. <snip>

 

Suits and sportcoats are for work. Tuxedos and dinner jackets are party wear; there's a difference. I wouldn't want to wear office clothes on the ship either.  No disrespect to anyone who chooses not to participate, or tell anyone what they ought to wear. It's about having fun. I wish more saw it that way.

 

Your two statements seem inconsistent. In the first you seem to accept Suits and sports coats as formal wear and the second denigrate. You are also trying to change the generally accepted definition of Formal, especially as spelled out by Princess, from "Formal" to "Black Tie".

 

4 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

The. Magic Castle is a private clubhouse......not the same as a cruise ship....did you mean high end restaurant.....steak houses do not reek of exclusivity where I come from.......

 

We don't know where you. There may not be high end steakhouses there, but places like Morton's, Sullivan's, Alexander, Harris, etc do have dress code, but I noticed that since the last recession (2009) a lot of coat & tie requirements went away.

 

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Assuming you are right handed, your knife is held in your right hand, your fork is in your left hand, and that is how you eat. Why switch your fork to your right hand to eat?

 

It started in America as a way to show contempt for King George III, just like stopping tea drinking. The tradition has stuck and become ingrained in the culture.

 

 

[brisalta]

12 minutes ago, scottca075 said:

Perhaps I should have said sports coat/blazer, but not all blazers have patch pockets. Double breasted blazers have flap pockets. The distinction remains between an unmatched coat and slacks vs a suit or tuxedo.

 

If it is double breasted and has flap pockets it is a double breasted jacket, not a blazer.

If it is double breasted and has patch pockets it is a double breasted blazer which is not very common.

Mind you double breasted apparel is not very common these days.

 

Note --- Family history of tailors and large scale clothing manufacturing.

[getting older slowly]

1 hour ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I agree with you except for the " part.

 

Per Princess":

 

These distinctive restaurants provide intimate dining in an upscale atmosphere. Reservations are suggested at these popular venues. And because these restaurants at sea are truly a unique treat, a specialty restaurant cover charge will apply per person.

 

On Formal Nights, my wife and I like to dress up and even make it a special dining experience.  I feel that formal attire is required in an upscale atmosphere.  On Formal Night, the Specialty Restaurants are formal.

 

Just my 2 cents.

So far on our Princess Cruise sailing in and out of Australian waters Formal dress in not required in "Specialty Restaurants" on formal nights..... but this could be different in other parts of the world...

[2 cruises a year]

1 hour ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I agree with you except for the "Specialty Restaurant" part.

 

Per Princess":

 

These distinctive restaurants provide intimate dining in an upscale atmosphere. Reservations are suggested at these popular venues. And because these restaurants at sea are truly a unique treat, a specialty restaurant cover charge will apply per person.

 

On Formal Nights, my wife and I like to dress up and even make it a special dining experience.  I feel that formal attire is required in an upscale atmosphere.  On Formal Night, the Specialty Restaurants are formal.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

7 minutes ago, getting older slowly said:

So far on our Princess Cruise sailing in and out of Australian waters Formal dress in not required in "Specialty Restaurants" on formal nights..... but this could be different in other parts of the world...

I see what you mean.  I didn't make my point well.

I guess to simplify, I feel that the dress code in the Specialty Restaurants should match the dress code in the MDR.  After all, they "provide intimate dining in an upscale atmosphere".

Also from Princess regarding "Casual Dining Venues, the specialty restaurants are not listed.  That is why I believe that the dress code there should be held to a higher standard.  And again, this is just my 2 cents worth.  Not really a world crisis issue.

 

When a casual mood calls, you have plenty of choices – even on formal nights, you’re able to choose how you dine with us.

World Fresh Marketplace, Horizon Court, Horizon Bistro
Hearty sandwiches, signature soups, hand-carved roasted meats, homemade pastries and a multitude of fresh fruit and salad selections offer a variety of tempting choices.

On-Deck Favorites
The aroma of grilled burgers and hot dogs poolside, a slice of Neapolitan-style pizza, ice cream and specialty coffees are all reasons to head to the top decks for quick bites al fresco.

Vines Wine Bar and Ocean Terrace
Experience wine and cocktails with a view. Toast a special occasion or have a pre-dinner glass of wine while enjoying the Piazza’s bustle and entertainment at Vines Wine Bar. Complement the ocean sunset view at Ocean terrace with a sushi platter and chilled sake.

International Café
Enjoy specialty coffee and tea favorites, along with a variety of pastries, sandwiches, salads and quick bites.

[c-boy]

  ... " Note --- Family history of tailors and large scale clothing manufacturing "

 

  you too  😲

[Lucky TGO]

Hi to all my Cruise Critic friends,

This post will go on forever. I really don’t care what anyone is wearing for me it will always be a tuxedo on formal nights. Even if it’s only me and the Maître d’. 😳 

Tony

 

[jwattle]

6 minutes ago, Lucky TGO said:

Hi to all my Cruise Critic friends,

This post will go on forever. I really don’t care what anyone is wearing for me it will always be a tuxedo on formal nights. Even if it’s only me and the Maître d’. 😳 

Tony

 

You and Tom 😁

Your friend,

Jo aka, the Countess

[stamford57]

Hey everyone! They say it’s good to talk so I’m really glad I started this thread 😀 it’s so interesting to see everyone’s opinion and for it then to move to how someone holds their knife and fork (people must have way too much time on their hands to think about this). I can honestly say I’ve never looked at other tables/diners on our many previous cruises.  Each to their own but enjoy your holiday and focus on what’s important. Which is most definitely not what others are doing. We love cruising, and yes my husband will wear smart shorts to the MDR. If he is told they are not allowed we will gracefully take that information and dine elsewhere. On formal night, if we feel like dressing up in our suits and gowns then we will. If not, off to eat somewhere else instead 😀 I cannot wait to fill you all in with what happens when we sail. Did he get in with shorts or did he not? Have a fab Monday everyone.... here’s to many smooth sailings? 

[NSWP]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Surely everybody who is right handed, uses the left hand for their fork?

Most Americans seem to use their fork in their left hand to hold their meat/fish in place whilst cutting it with their knife, and then they switch hands and put their fork in their right hand to convey their food to their mouth.  Just why!  Keep your fork in your left hand and eat from it.

We have been given two hands,  so keep your fork in your left hand and your knife in your right! No switching!

Having done many cruises and coachtours with North americans, I understand. .

Edited May 24, 2021 by NSWP

[NSWP]

16 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Not really.

 

I hate wearing a suit and a tie, but I do it on formal evenings.

 

But I go back to the cabin and change out of it as soon as dinner is over and then go to the other evening's events.

On Cunard you get the Stare for doing that! Lol.

[MissP22]

18 hours ago, jwattle said:

Polo shirt? Maybe pushing it just a wee smidge...

Yes, it might be so the DH also brings his guayabera shirt.....just in case he's called out for it but never has in recent times. 

Princess has taken the attitude of not wanting to offend any of the passengers for lack of dress, except for the most extreme.

I don't expect things to change much once we return to cruising.

[Steelers36]

14 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

On Formal Nights, my wife and I like to dress up and even make it a special dining experience.  I feel that formal attire is required in an upscale atmosphere.  On Formal Night, the Specialty Restaurants are formal.

That is fine and enjoy your evening, but formal wear is optional in other dining venues, including the Specialty.  I guess folks want to rewrite the Princess dress recommendations in all sorts of different ways.

 

[Steelers36]

13 hours ago, scottca075 said:

There may not be high end steakhouses there, but places like Morton's, Sullivan's, Alexander, Harris, etc do have dress code, but I noticed that since the last recession (2009) a lot of coat & tie requirements went away.

IDK when they might have changed policies, but this is a direct copy from Morton's website: 

 

"We recommend business attire or smart casual wear at Morton's. For men, a collared shirt and dress pants are appropriate. While a jacket and tie are not necessary, many of our male guests will be wearing a business suit. For women, business wear or dressy casual attire would be most comfortable. T-shirts, shorts, and casual sandals are not recommended for dining at Morton's.".

 

As can be plainly seen, they recommend both business attire and smart casual.  They are very clear about it.  When I looked this up to see what they actually state, I also had the thought that this pretty much matches how Princess manages their recommendations in reality on the ships in my experience.  

 

I continue to think that Princess is managing the dining with a fair balance where formal wear is welcome anytime along with smart casual.  Passengers can suit themselves and at the same time have multiple dining options.  If they actually changed their Clothing Recommendation to be something like Morton's, I would support it.  They could change just a few words and have this:

 

"We recommend business attire or smart casual wear in all Dining Rooms and Specialty Restaurants. For men, a collared shirt and dress pants are appropriate. While a jacket and tie are not necessary, many of our male guests will be wearing a business suit or tuxedo on Formal Nights. For women, business wear or dressy casual attire would be most comfortable.  While not necessary, many of our female guests will be wearing more formal evening attire or cocktail dresses on Formal Nights. T-shirts, shorts, and casual sandals are not accepted in any of the main dining rooms and specialty restaurants.".

 

I think the above is closer to what happens in reality on the ships versus the literal text of the Clothing Recommendations in FAQ's.  There is also another section on clothing where at least smart casual is expected.  Perhaps they are just purposely unclear to allow flexibility.  I don't pretend to understand it, but I like how it is handled in practice.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Steelers36

[Steelers36]

13 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

So far on our Princess Cruise sailing in and out of Australian waters Formal dress in not required in "Specialty Restaurants" on formal nights..... but this could be different in other parts of the world...

Doesn't matter where in the World, policies are the same.  Princess is quite clear in the Clothing Recommendations, that the request for Formal Nights applies to the MDR's only.

But, folks are always welcome to dress up for the Specialty Restaurants.  You can even dress up to go to the World Fresh Market.

 

[chrysalis]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

Doesn't matter where in the World, policies are the same.  Princess is quite clear in the Clothing Recommendations, that the request for Formal Nights applies to the MDR's only.

But, folks are always welcome to dress up for the Specialty Restaurants.  You can even dress up to go to the World Fresh Market.

 

That is absolutely incorrect....on some Princess ships, I have seen posts in the Patter, and signage that indicates that Formal Nights applies t MDR's and Specialty Restaurants, and I have posted photos here to indicate that.

[Steelers36]

56 minutes ago, chrysalis said:

That is absolutely incorrect....on some Princess ships, I have seen posts in the Patter, and signage that indicates that Formal Nights applies t MDR's and Specialty Restaurants, and I have posted photos here to indicate that.

My post could have been better worded.  The Princess.com information posted in FAQ's is quite clear as I stated, but I agree that things can vary from ship to ship from time to time.  In theory, what is printed on Princess.com should be applicable fleet-wide.  That said, I have likely seen notice as you mentioned on occasion and wondered why.  But never had an issue dining in specialty locations in smart casual wear and never been treated differently, etc.

 

[caribill]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:16 AM, iancal said:

Huge difference.  On a cruise I am a customer.  At a wedding I am a guest.

 

 

You are considered a guest at both.

For the cruise ship you pay a fare to be a guest.

For a wedding you probably bought a gift for being invited.

 

You paid in both cases.

[MissP22]

21 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

You are considered a guest at both.

For the cruise ship you pay a fare to be a guest.

For a wedding you probably bought a gift for being invited.

 

You paid in both cases.

If I'm considered a guest on the ship then perhaps I can negotiate the amount of my fare. 😉 

[john watson]

12 hours ago, stamford57 said:

  I can honestly say I’ve never looked at other tables/diners on our many previous cruises.  Each to their own but enjoy your holiday and focus on what’s important. Which is most definitely not what others are doing. 

 

Sometimes, I find there is a rowdy table, over there, you can't resist having a look.  So you do and they are the most dodgy looking bunch of irritating passengers you've ever seen.  Overall, you are just so very glad you are not with that lot over there.   Then when you chance a second look you think "Oh no, it's a mirror".

 

Lol John

[iancal]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

You are considered a guest at both.

For the cruise ship you pay a fare to be a guest.

For a wedding you probably bought a gift for being invited.

 

You paid in both cases.

You might consider me to be a guest.  Just another name for a customer.   Not much different that the term 'client'.   Why not a client, why not a guest, why not a passenger, why not a customer?

 

Money changes hands.  I cannot get on the ship without payment and without a credit card.  In some cases we negotiate the fare to a competitive level.  Guests do not do this.  They graciously accept an invitation.  For a cruise we accept an invitation....an invitation to buy and thus become a customer of the cruise line.

 

I select from a choice of offerings,  we pay our fares, we are customers.  And we remain customers throughout the bevy of sales enticements on each ship.

Edited May 24, 2021 by iancal

[d9704011]

37 minutes ago, iancal said:

Money changes hands.  I cannot get on the ship without payment and without a credit card. 

Hmmm... I’m thinking I may be fitting into the ‘cash cow’ category.

[PrincessLuver]

3 hours ago, chrysalis said:

That is absolutely incorrect....on some Princess ships, I have seen posts in the Patter, and signage that indicates that Formal Nights applies t MDR's and Specialty Restaurants, and I have posted photos here to indicate that.

Somebody is not getting the message because on every Princess ship we have been on and when eating in a speciality restaurant there appears to be no dress code enforcement and we have even seen diners with shorts.......

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, MissP22 said:

If I'm considered a guest on the ship then perhaps I can negotiate the amount of my fare. 😉 

 

I am with you and I am a customer on the ship and the customer is always right......and Princess basically knows that by the way they do things.......

 

I love how people try to spin EVERYONE has to follow the "Formal Night Dress code which is false.....even Princess does not do that......

Edited May 24, 2021 by PrincessLuver