An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[JamieLogical]

19 minutes ago, Babr said:

The irony is that the government intervention into Florida businesses came from the small government, pro-business bunch.

 

This is the one part I truly can't get over. Companies discriminating against employees for sexual orientation or gender identity? A-Okay! Companies "discriminating" against unvaccinated people who are a threat to public health during a public health emergency? No way!!! Why do these people rush to the defense of companies that want to infringe on freedoms that have NO IMPACT on anyone else, but attack companies that want to infringe on "freedoms" that can legitimately contribute to the spread of a global pandemic? Really not trying to get to political here, but the messaging out of this bunch is WILDLY inconsistent.

[Lmm79]

2 hours ago, colliece said:

Here you go:

National Institute of Health:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

NY TImes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/health/coronavirus-immunity-vaccines.html

 

Nature:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9#:~:text=So suggest researchers who have,will be extraordinarily long-lasting.

 

I have seen dozens of others.

I am locked out of the New York Times article but neither of the other two say that the immunity response from having had the virus is better than the vaccine which is what you originally said. Try again?

[graphicguy]

I don’t understand how ADA nor HIPPA came into this conversation.  Neither are relevant in any way, shape or form.

 

Like others have mentioned, if you don’t want to be vaccinated, don’t get vaccinated.  You are self identifying and noticeable because you’ll have to wear a mask and distance on board.  If you don’t want to do that, then wait to cruise for a few more months, and herd immunity should kick in, which will change the requirements.  But, if you want to cruise immediately after the shutdown, you’ll have to wait for the test cruises to be completed (which it doesn’t appear Celebrity is doing) and you’ll be able to book with the typical protocols of masks and distancing as we’ve been doing for the last year plus.

 

You have the freedom to get the vaccine or not.  You have the freedom to cruise or not.  Like all of cruising, via your contract, you agree to follow the cruisline’s rules.  Moreover, once you get into international waters and are in non-U.S. ports, you have to follow those local rules, too.

 

You want to see the personal information about you that the cruise lines keep?  Go to book with your past passenger number.  That’s what the cruise line keeps.  You want to sail in a disabled equipped cabin?  You’re going to have to prove your disability.  You want to cruise initially without the vaccine because of some medical condition?  Be prepared to have a note from your physician saying so.  What you won’t be able to do is to cruise if you test positive for COVID, and yes, they’ll test you..embarking and disembarking.

 

There’s some crazy information being bandied about in here.  And, I don’t know where this crazy information comes from.

[wrk2cruise]

On the news last night in Raleigh was a business owner who has been shutdown since the beginning of the pandemic even though it was allowable for him to reopen months ago.  He is now restarting with the requirement that you have to register as being full vaccinated to come indoors, you can eat outdoors if unvaccinated.   He said his wife has COPD and he has not been willing to risk their health.  I fully support his right to run his business this way for what I feel are vary valid reasons.

[coffeebean]

On 6/1/2021 at 4:09 PM, graphicguy said:

This is what you posted....

 

Fortunately in this country we have the American Disabilities Act which keeps people from being discriminated against for medical reasons. 

 

That's incorrect.  People are protected because of their disability.  Anyone can be refused entrance or participation in any privately run facility or service because the owner(s) deem the person/people in question to be a threat to the health of others.  You will be tested for COVID.  You will be asked for your COVID vaccine card (much in the same way you provide your passport).

 

I am certain, like all other questionnaires and contracts you sign before being allowed to cruise, they'll craft a clause stating the request for the COVID information is solely used for the health of those sailing, and will not be used for any other purpose.

 

Besides, I can't for the live of me understand why people will turn over every other detail in the book about themselves, but be some vehement in their unwillingness to provide their COVID vaccine info.  Your vaccine provider has it.  I know my GP and Cardiologist has it.  My pharmacy has it (and they're in the grocery store where I shop, so the computers in the grocery store has it, too).  My family has it.  

 

But to protect yourself and those around you, it's somehow an issue to provide whether you've had a COVID vaccine or not?

IMHO, people who unwilling to provide their Covid vaccine information are usually those people who have not had the Covid vaccine. Those are the people who are making all the noise about having to show proof of vaccination. Why? Because they don't have any proof.

[abbydancer2003]

21 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

IMHO, people who unwilling to provide their Covid vaccine information are usually those people who have not had the Covid vaccine. Those are the people who are making all the noise about having to show proof of vaccination. Why? Because they don't have any proof.

Absolutely.

[coffeebean]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:25 PM, LGW59 said:

Also 154,000+ Floridians have jobs directly with the cruise industry and/or related to.  Just shy of $8billion is pumped in to Florida’s economy.  

You are shy with your billions. It is more like $9 Billion.

[Nymich]

Everyone should win here.  I personally would rather the cruise be vaccinated but this is how I see it shaking out at this point.

 

1)  the Governor wins because he pushed the CDC and now after the CDC doing NOTHING from Oct to March we have quite a few test cruises.  Don't forget the Cruise Lines CEO's were cheering him when they filed the lawsuit back in March because they were so frustrated with the CDC.  

 

2) CDC wins because they will get vaccinated cruises and the perception that they allowed all this progress to happen and if anything goes wrong on the unvaccinated cruises they can blame the Governor.

 

3)  the Cruise Lines win because they can jack up the price on the vaccinated cruises knowing that's what most of us want. With vaccinated most expensive.  Not vaccinated better price.

[LGW59]

23 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

You are shy with your billions. It is more like $9 Billion.

Well I don’t like to toss my money around, unless for a suite.

[coffeebean]

24 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Well I don’t like to toss my money around, unless for a suite.

ROTFLMAO!

[keels81]

17 hours ago, Nymich said:

Everyone should win here.  I personally would rather the cruise be vaccinated but this is how I see it shaking out at this point.

 

1)  the Governor wins because he pushed the CDC and now after the CDC doing NOTHING from Oct to March we have quite a few test cruises.  Don't forget the Cruise Lines CEO's were cheering him when they filed the lawsuit back in March because they were so frustrated with the CDC.  

 

2) CDC wins because they will get vaccinated cruises and the perception that they allowed all this progress to happen and if anything goes wrong on the unvaccinated cruises they can blame the Governor.

 

3)  the Cruise Lines win because they can jack up the price on the vaccinated cruises knowing that's what most of us want. With vaccinated most expensive.  Not vaccinated better price.

Point 3 is so spot on ... at least with me. I have two cruises on Celebrity booked and one on the Carnival Mardi Gras (unfortunately, but its a girls trip and its what the krewe wants to do). You bet I just got an extension on my Final Pay date on the Mardi Gras for an extra 45 days -- it was originally July 4 -- because no way am I taking that cruise if its still masked or no vaccination accountability. 

 

I will never shy away from paying a little extra for that peace of mind on a cruise line that I already adore. 

[Nymich]

1 hour ago, keels81 said:

Point 3 is so spot on ... at least with me. I have two cruises on Celebrity booked and one on the Carnival Mardi Gras (unfortunately, but its a girls trip and its what the krewe wants to do). You bet I just got an extension on my Final Pay date on the Mardi Gras for an extra 45 days -- it was originally July 4 -- because no way am I taking that cruise if its still masked or no vaccination accountability. 

 

I will never shy away from paying a little extra for that peace of mind on a cruise line that I already adore. 

Wise move imo on the extension and it's nice you have that option!

[graphicguy]

3 hours ago, keels81 said:

Point 3 is so spot on ... at least with me. I have two cruises on Celebrity booked and one on the Carnival Mardi Gras (unfortunately, but its a girls trip and its what the krewe wants to do). You bet I just got an extension on my Final Pay date on the Mardi Gras for an extra 45 days -- it was originally July 4 -- because no way am I taking that cruise if its still masked or no vaccination accountability. 

 

I will never shy away from paying a little extra for that peace of mind on a cruise line that I already adore. 

I peaked over there at the Carnival threads a week or so ago.  There are some crazy posts over there.  It appears that everyone over there is a physician (given the alleged "quote du jour" from whomever supports their silliness.  It also appears there are lots of lawyers over there considering the alleged legal expertise being spewed out.

 

Smart move to hold off for a little while longer on that Mardi Gras sailing.

[keels81]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

I peaked over there at the Carnival threads a week or so ago.  There are some crazy posts over there.  It appears that everyone over there is a physician (given the alleged "quote du jour" from whomever supports their silliness.  It also appears there are lots of lawyers over there considering the alleged legal expertise being spewed out.

 

Smart move to hold off for a little while longer on that Mardi Gras sailing.

You think the Carnival threads are bad? Just dip a toe over on the RCCL boards. 🤣

[bajathree]

 

So much political drama going on. A week ago Celebrity told all TA's  that The Edge June 26th sailing (and for the rest of the summer) is a go fully vaccinated and that they have a deal worked out with DeSantis and that it's just waiting on the final verbiage of the deal. Well since DeSantis has just swore that there is no deal with Celebrity and he doesn't know why they are telling people that....he will uphold the law. I am really having a hard time on believing any of them. And honestly...in a week Celebrity has been silent on the issue.....too much political drama. If there is a deal in the works or Celebrity has figured an absolute work around the governors law with vaccine passports...they need to come forward and let everyone know what it is. Im sorry but it's time to put your money where your mouth is and let everyone know who is booking The Edge how you plan to make this work.

 

•  

Edited June 4, 2021 by bajathree

[graphicguy]

Still can’t figure Desantis’ motives.  Just come out and say….’’we’re talking and are working cooperatively towards a safe solution for passengers, the cruise lines and the state”.  Instead, he’s at war with the cruise industry, the passengers and the CDC and refusing to work anything out.

 

I do think at least Celebrity will sail with the CDC’s blessing and ignore Desantis’ temper tantrum.  They’ll appeal any fines, but that lawsuit will take so long it won’t matter.

[bajathree]

7 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Still can’t figure Desantis’ motives.  Just come out and say….’’we’re talking and are working cooperatively towards a safe solution for passengers, the cruise lines and the state”.  Instead, he’s at war with the cruise industry, the passengers and the CDC and refusing to work anything out.

 

I do think at least Celebrity will sail with the CDC’s blessing and ignore Desantis’ temper tantrum.  They’ll appeal any fines, but that lawsuit will take so long it won’t matter.

Well according to the last Celebrity sales call they say that the governors office is working hard with them and being cooperative....so go figure....you sure wouldn't know watching and listening to DeSantis. 

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, bajathree said:

Well according to the last Celebrity sales call they say that the governors office is working hard with them and being cooperative....so go figure....you sure wouldn't know watching and listening to DeSantis. 

To be honest that’s not what was said at all. The Forbes article totally misinterpreted  how the conversation went. All that was said was ‘the Chairman (Fain) is working with NCL and Carnival to write a letter to the governor to explain why cruises are different and why we need vaccines.” Said also said they could also work on a way to “word it” to get vaccine documentation and not fall under the new law. 
 

There was nothing said to the effect that they were actively working with the governors office and they were having successful conversations.
 

But between Celebrity’s stance and the CLIA reps stance, I could see them doing it anyway and dealing with potential ramifications later. 

[Ken the cruiser]

2 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Said also said they could also work on a way to “word it” to get vaccine documentation and not fall under the new law. 

Any idea what the latest strategy might be to not fall under the new law? I know there have been a few guesses made here on CC, but just curious if there is any hint as to what their actual plans might be?

[bajathree]

7 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

To be honest that’s not what was said at all. The Forbes article totally misinterpreted  how the conversation went. All that was said was ‘the Chairman (Fain) is working with NCL and Carnival to write a letter to the governor to explain why cruises are different and why we need vaccines.” Said also said they could also work on a way to “word it” to get vaccine documentation and not fall under the new law. 
 

There was nothing said to the effect that they were actively working with the governors office and they were having successful conversations.
 

But between Celebrity’s stance and the CLIA reps stance, I could see them doing it anyway and dealing with potential ramifications later. 

We must have been on different calls then.

 

[graphicguy]

6 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any idea what the latest strategy might be to not fall under the new law? I know there have been a few guesses made here on CC, but just curious if there is any hint as to what their actual plans might be?

I don’t think any of us know for certain.  But, Celebrity hasn’t really changed anything other than to be part of the efforts to allow COVID vaccinated passengers to sail.  Last I looked, 80% of potential passengers agree with them.  So, they’ve got their customer base on their side.

 

They also have the CDC on their side (imagine that given the CDC’s inaction in the previous 12 months).  They’ve got the business community on their side, too.  So, that’s all pretty powerful.

 

I have no basis in fact in any of this, other than I’m an avid cruiser and have had multiple sailings canceled.  I do believe Celebrity will sail vaccinated and let the courts decide somewhere down that long road in the future whether they have to pay any fines.  My guess would be they won’t.

Edited June 4, 2021 by graphicguy

[JamieLogical]

5 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any idea what the latest strategy might be to not fall under the new law? I know there have been a few guesses made here on CC, but just curious if there is any hint as to what their actual plans might be?

 

I really think the outcome will be that these ships sail, at some point, FL tries to impose the fine, the cruise lines go to court for an injunction, there is an ensuing law suit, and then it is up to DeSantis and FL whether they want to pursue the law suit. But it's so hard to guess with DeSantis being such a wild card. Would he pull some completely crazy stunt like calling out the National Guard to prevent passengers from boarding the ships? I just can't even begin to guess.

 

Note: the law does not go into effect until July 1, so the June 26 sailing on the Edge should be unaffected, possibly even a couple sailings after that if the request for proof of vaccination comes from Celebrity before June 26?

[graphicguy]

I can’t even imagine the uproar and the fallout from the National Guard being called out to block passengers, who paid for their cruise, from boarding.  That would be a PR disaster for Desantis.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by graphicguy

[JamieLogical]

Just now, graphicguy said:

I can’t even imagine the uproar and the fallout from the National Guard being called out to block passengers, who paid for their cruise, from boarding.  That would be a PR disaster for Desantis.

 

Has that stopped him yet?

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I really think the outcome will be that these ships sail, at some point, FL tries to impose the fine, the cruise lines go to court for an injunction, there is an ensuing law suit, and then it is up to DeSantis and FL whether they want to pursue the law suit. But it's so hard to guess with DeSantis being such a wild card. Would he pull some completely crazy stunt like calling out the National Guard to prevent passengers from boarding the ships? I just can't even begin to guess.

 

Note: the law does not go into effect until July 1, so the June 26 sailing on the Edge should be unaffected, possibly even a couple sailings after that if the request for proof of vaccination comes from Celebrity before June 26?

The fact that the law goes into effect July 1 is meaningless.  The Governor’s EO remains in effect through June 30, so the June 26 sailing is not out of the woods.