Florida Talking Vaccine Passport For Cruises Now?

[ProgRockCruiser]

32 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

If Florida accidentally wins their lawsuit, the Alaska cruises would become illegal.

No, it would still only apply to Florida.

 

Alaska has mandated the vaccinations as part of the negotiations for the waiver/modification to the PVSA, as it their right.

[lele100]

3 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

I agree. But in the absence of a Carnival announcement, it's sure better than nothing.  Carnival is not very transparent, are they?  

No they are not.  Very fustrating especially those of us with July cruises.  I am happy I get to drive to the port if I had to fly I would be so fustrated

[BlerkOne]

Just now, Joe817 said:

I agree. But in the absence of a Carnival announcement, it's sure better than nothing.  Carnival is not very transparent, are they?  

I don't know that they have decided and may be waiting for a decision in Florida. Meanwhile they have little choice but to prepare for all options.

 

Once a decision is made, I think SEC rules require them to be transparent on matters that can have a material impact on the stock, etc.

[Radiioman46]

5 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

I agree. But in the absence of a Carnival announcement, it's sure better than nothing.  Carnival is not very transparent, are they?  

No, but Duffy has said that they are cruising with all the family. 

[lele100]

1 minute ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

No, it would still only apply to Florida.

 

Alaska has mandated the vaccinations as part of the negotiations for the waiver/modification to the PVSA, as it their right.

I think what they referring to is that Biden signed the ok with Alaska cruises to not have to go to a foreign port first only if the CDC's Conditional order stays in place.  But if Florida wins their lawsuit which is get rid of the conditional order then what Biden signed becomes voided.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

No, it would still only apply to Florida.

 

Alaska has mandated the vaccinations as part of the negotiations for the waiver/modification to the PVSA, as it their right.

If Florida gets the CSO tossed, the basis for the PVSA waiver also disappears and the Alaska cruises become illegal.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1318/text

(a) Definition of covered cruise ship.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—In this section, the term “covered cruise ship” means a vessel included on the list under paragraph (2) that—

(A) has been issued, operates in accordance with, and retains a COVID–19 Conditional Sailing Certificate of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; and

(B) operates in accordance with any restrictions or guidance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention associated with such Certificate, including any such restrictions or guidance issued after the date of enactment of this Act.

[Joebucks]

 

2 hours ago, Babr said:

 

The problem with younger people not getting the vaccine is that it allows the virus to continue to circulate. It may be at lower rate with less drastic consequences, but it allows it to mutate. So far these variants have been covered by the current vaccines, but I worry about another nasty one popping up. Viet Nam has done well until now. I think that is reminder that we still need to be cautious.

 

This is unproven, fear-mongering. As you said, the current vaccines protect against multiple variants of COVID due to the response that attacks a few parts of the spike protein. With that said, we will never stop the mutation of COVID. Period. Even then at this point, it's going to take multiple mutations for it to bypass the vaccine. Which may happen eventually. History has told us if it does, it's likely not going to be as deadly either. We don't know how long immunity lasts. We don't know how long natural immunity lasts. We don't know if we need boosters. We don't know a whole lot. So save your crap theories.

 

Sure you can say feel-good things like "it is better" for everyone vaccinated, but that data truly isn't conclusive. Hopeful words aren't enough to convince everyone they need annual injections. There is no proof out there that shows the vaccinated are at any real risk by those not vaccinated. We just accept what we are told, which for anyone keeping score, a lot has been wrong. Somehow, anyone non-vaccinated is a problem, but children who are not vaccinated are ok. Because science. We know children aren't a significant health risk. We know elderly folk with comorbidities are at significant risk. Keep pushing this crap science that the unvaccinated, health, middle-aged people are carrying a pandemic.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965703047/vaccines-could-drive-the-evolution-of-more-covid-19-mutants

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/07/coronavirus-mutation-vaccine-strength/

 

https://news.ncsu.edu/2021/01/the-mutating-sars-cov-2-virus/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/science/covid-vaccine-virus-resistance.html

 

https://www.advisory.com/en/daily-briefing/2021/01/08/virus-mutations

 

[Babr]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

This is unproven, fear-mongering. As you said, the current vaccines protect against multiple variants of COVID due to the response that attacks a few parts of the spike protein. With that said, we will never stop the mutation of COVID. Period. Even then at this point, it's going to take multiple mutations for it to bypass the vaccine. Which may happen eventually. History has told us if it does, it's likely not going to be as deadly either. We don't know how long immunity lasts. We don't know how long natural immunity lasts. We don't know if we need boosters. We don't know a whole lot. So save your crap theories.

 

Sure you can say feel-good things like "it is better" for everyone vaccinated, but that data truly isn't conclusive. Hopeful words aren't enough to convince everyone they need annual injections. There is no proof out there that shows the vaccinated are at any real risk by those not vaccinated. We just accept what we are told, which for anyone keeping score, a lot has been wrong. Somehow, anyone non-vaccinated is a problem, but children who are not vaccinated are ok. Because science. We know children aren't a significant health risk. We know elderly folk with comorbidities are at significant risk. Keep pushing this crap science that the unvaccinated, health, middle-aged people are carrying a pandemic.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965703047/vaccines-could-drive-the-evolution-of-more-covid-19-mutants

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/07/coronavirus-mutation-vaccine-strength/

 

https://news.ncsu.edu/2021/01/the-mutating-sars-cov-2-virus/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/science/covid-vaccine-virus-resistance.html

 

https://www.advisory.com/en/daily-briefing/2021/01/08/virus-mutations

 

Crap science? Fear mongering? Hold it, Bud. I said I worry about such a thing happening if younger people are not vaccinated. I’m not pushing anything, merely expressing my concern.

 

Save your insults and self-righteous indignation for someone who deserves it.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Babr

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 There is no proof out there that shows the vaccinated are at any real risk by those not vaccinated.

 

 

Fully vaccinated folks have contracted the virus and died as a result. If they could talk I think they would disagree. I consider your statement to be misinformation.

 

Some children develop severe illness

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html#:~:text=While children have been less,without underlying medical conditions.

 

Current evidence suggests that children with medical complexity, with genetic, neurologic, metabolic conditions, or with congenital heart disease can be at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19. Similar to adults, children with obesity, diabetes, asthma or chronic lung disease, sickle cell disease, or immunosuppression can also be at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

[lele100]

Looks like they did not come to an agreement.  (posted in another thread)

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-between-cdc-and-florida-lawsuit-get-cruise-ships-sailing?fbclid=IwAR22mAVqI91DGYb5S24JA7UDGyvwxUsg5AgqEK3n004svCiW_9yXcUNC_Wg

 

 

[JMKreno]

33 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Fully vaccinated folks have contracted the virus and died as a result. If they could talk I think they would disagree. I consider your statement to be misinformation.

 

Some children develop severe illness

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html#:~:text=While children have been less,without underlying medical conditions.

 

Current evidence suggests that children with medical complexity, with genetic, neurologic, metabolic conditions, or with congenital heart disease can be at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19. Similar to adults, children with obesity, diabetes, asthma or chronic lung disease, sickle cell disease, or immunosuppression can also be at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

While I agree that there is some level or risk, it is completely low-level once vaccinated. With almost 2 billion shots now administered worldwide, the amount of breakthrough infections and other "risks" are so trivial and, when compared to any other vaccines (looking at YOU anthrax vaccine!!), just astounding. 

 

This does not take away the pain from those who still got sick after vaccination. However context is key. Statistically speaking, more people died on the Concordia in relation to those who cruise every year than had complications from the Covid-19 shot. Yet, here we all are on Cruise Critic, happily looking forward to our next cruise despite the risks. 

 

FYI I am as die hard a vaccine supporter as anyone. I just live in a world of numbers and statistics which helps me keep some order in this chaotic world and try to bring that reasoning to others, to calm their nerves a bit. I argue topics on both sides of the political divide when I see something (statistically) that doesn't necessarily validate an argument.....

[d12j28]

13 minutes ago, JMKreno said:

While I agree that there is some level or risk, it is completely low-level once vaccinated. With almost 2 billion shots now administered worldwide, the amount of breakthrough infections and other "risks" are so trivial and, when compared to any other vaccines (looking at YOU anthrax vaccine!!), just astounding. 

 

This does not take away the pain from those who still got sick after vaccination. However context is key. Statistically speaking, more people died on the Concordia in relation to those who cruise every year than had complications from the Covid-19 shot. Yet, here we all are on Cruise Critic, happily looking forward to our next cruise despite the risks. 

 

FYI I am as die hard a vaccine supporter as anyone. I just live in a world of numbers and statistics which helps me keep some order in this chaotic world and try to bring that reasoning to others, to calm their nerves a bit. I argue topics on both sides of the political divide when I see something (statistically) that doesn't necessarily validate an argument.....

Great post! Life is full of risks. 

 

FYI - some people you can't reason with though......LOL

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 hour ago, lele100 said:

I think what they referring to is that Biden signed the ok with Alaska cruises to not have to go to a foreign port first only if the CDC's Conditional order stays in place.  But if Florida wins their lawsuit which is get rid of the conditional order then what Biden signed becomes voided.

 

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

If Florida gets the CSO tossed, the basis for the PVSA waiver also disappears and the Alaska cruises become illegal.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1318/text

(a) Definition of covered cruise ship.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—In this section, the term “covered cruise ship” means a vessel included on the list under paragraph (2) that—

(A) has been issued, operates in accordance with, and retains a COVID–19 Conditional Sailing Certificate of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; and

(B) operates in accordance with any restrictions or guidance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention associated with such Certificate, including any such restrictions or guidance issued after the date of enactment of this Act.

OK, I am not a lawyer, but if Florida's lawsuit should actually prevail in their favor would it negate the entire CDC CSO, or just the part about proof of vaccine being an option?  And is the new waiver "severable" - i.e. if one part is unenforceable, do the remaining portions still prevail?

 

Those are the pieces that I think would need to be evaluated by teams of lawyers, and the outcome would be likely well after all the lines start sailing again, making it somewhat of a moot point perhaps.

[BlerkOne]

31 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

OK, I am not a lawyer, but if Florida's lawsuit should actually prevail in their favor would it negate the entire CDC CSO, or just the part about proof of vaccine being an option?  And is the new waiver "severable" - i.e. if one part is unenforceable, do the remaining portions still prevail?

 

Those are the pieces that I think would need to be evaluated by teams of lawyers, and the outcome would be likely well after all the lines start sailing again, making it somewhat of a moot point perhaps.

Congress would have to start over.

[coffeebean]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:56 AM, kdr69 said:

Could you expand on the loophole as when i read the law the only exemption i could see was for medical facilities? 

Isn't there also exceptions for nursing homes and prisons?

[tqc_cruiser]

6 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

OK, I am not a lawyer, but if Florida's lawsuit should actually prevail in their favor would it negate the entire CDC CSO, or just the part about proof of vaccine being an option?  And is the new waiver "severable" - i.e. if one part is unenforceable, do the remaining portions still prevail?

 

Those are the pieces that I think would need to be evaluated by teams of lawyers, and the outcome would be likely well after all the lines start sailing again, making it somewhat of a moot point perhaps.

 

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Congress would have to start over.

I don't think congress would have to start over.  I also am not a member of the bar, but as the second section of the law actually lists the names of several vessels which are "covered vessels" by the legislation, I think the Alaska cruises could continue regardless.

The legislation basically says that a trip from Washington to Alaska counts as "foreign port" for purposes of the PVSA.  (I know it doesn't make sense logically, but it's a cute trick, otherwise they would have had to rewrite much of the PVSA.)  Because of the way the legislation was drafted, I think the Alaska Tourism Restoration Act would survive even if a judge invalidated the CSO.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1318/text

[BlerkOne]

32 minutes ago, tqc_cruiser said:

 

I don't think congress would have to start over.  I also am not a member of the bar, but as the second section of the law actually lists the names of several vessels which are "covered vessels" by the legislation, I think the Alaska cruises could continue regardless.

The legislation basically says that a trip from Washington to Alaska counts as "foreign port" for purposes of the PVSA.  (I know it doesn't make sense logically, but it's a cute trick, otherwise they would have had to rewrite much of the PVSA.)  Because of the way the legislation was drafted, I think the Alaska Tourism Restoration Act would survive even if a judge invalidated the CSO.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1318/text

We agree to disagree. The list is just a list. What defines a covered vessel disappears. The cute trick is that Congress decided that sending an email to Canada was as good as a port stop.

[deliver42]

Please, give me a 100% vaccine cruise, so that it's pretty close to pre Covid.

[firefly333]

42 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

Please, give me a 100% vaccine cruise, so that it's pretty close to pre Covid.

Oh oh. Over on the rcl lines, miami herald just broke the news that rcl will do unvaccinated cruises. I'd, why people didnt know when test cruises were announced lol. Surprise. Half the posters say they will cancel lol. It didnt come from rcl  but I have been saying this about carnival and rcl,  too many kids to go the vaccinated route. Hahahaha. Going to be some happy and some not no matter what.

[jfunk138]

Remember 1 long month ago when various posters were still demanding mandatory mask wearing on even on vaccinated cruises?  Wonder what happened to those folks?  Give this another month and I'm wondering if the folks demanding mandatory vax disappear the same way into the Internet ether...

[kdr69]

On 6/3/2021 at 7:55 PM, BlerkOne said:

I read that up to 2% of covid cases in May in Oregon were breakthrough cases.

Whats that in actual numbers? Were the breakthrough cases in people who were just vaccinated or in people who were vaccinated and followed the protocols for two weeks after innoculation to give time for the vaccine to take hold.  Some folks think its a magic pill and the  moment you have the vaccine your immune.

[Homosassa]

An FYI: On the local Tampa news yesterday (6/4) when covering the arrival of the Mardi Gras in Port Canaveral, it was stated that cruises will be fully vaccinated. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Homosassa

[lobster1313]

On 6/3/2021 at 2:58 PM, BlerkOne said:

Congress would have to start over.

No. The reason for the waiver is the Canadian borders being closed not the CSO which could go away sooner HHS decades that the emergency is over.  Just because the CDC states in a motion to the court doesn't mean it's a true statement.

[TNcruising02]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

An FYI: On the local Tampa news yesterday (6/4) when covering the arrival of the Mardi Gras in Port Canaveral, it was stated that cruises will be fully vaccinated. 

That seems to be what Carnival is stating now too, at least temporarily.  I wonder what Carnival found out before making that statement.  Also, I wonder how soon they will let the July and August cruisers know the guidelines.  If I knew my cruise was going to sail for sure, I would book my hotel.

[lobster1313]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That seems to be what Carnival is stating now too, at least temporarily.  I wonder what Carnival found out before making that statement.  Also, I wonder how soon they will let the July and August cruisers know the guidelines.  If I knew my cruise was going to sail for sure, I would book my hotel.

There was no definitive statement on anything. This is similar to what happened a few months ago when everyone was upset that Carnival said no vaccines but they didn't actually say that then or make any commitment now.