Cruising affordability

[jtwind]

6 hours ago, Roz said:

 

That's a very elitist attitude.  Travel expands our horizons, and IMO should be available to as many people as possible.

One mosh pit at the Mona Lisa for Roz.

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, jtwind said:

One mosh pit at the Mona Lisa for Roz.

It's sort of like Venice being loved to death.

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps the “college for everyone” model is not the best in the long run— for students or for the economy as a whole.  A several year technical or trade school can do a lot more for many individuals , while upgrading our work force.  Spending four years and many tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree without some notion of how that learning is to be applied is simply a costly long shot.   Countries with free, or close to free, higher education do not make it available for everyone - testing takes place at several levels - which essentially determine which students are fit for academic, or occupational, programs.

Why am I not surprised that that the person who wrote that like me is a former school board member. I know when I was on our local school board one of the problems we faced was how to get the time available for those students whose interest and talents were more aligned with fields like auto mechanic, plumbing etc. when we were being mandated to force a higher academic standard on all.

 

I am agreeing with your post with the caveat that I would extend on down to a high school level. I am not degrading a high level academic education, but rather saying one size does not fit all. And where would our society be without auto mechanics, plumbers, et al?

[gerryuk]

Seems to me that there are 2 good reasons prices are up, and its not because of "pent up demand".

Cruise lines are putting up prices hoping that seasoned cruisers (many on this board) will pay up. If they then cancel the cruise they will do everything to get those who have paid up to transfer to a later cruise.

Another reason for price hikes is occupancy. Cruise lines know that when they start up they will only be able to sell cabins with much reduced occupancy, hence hike the prices and get those who pay up to part pay for all those empty cabins. 

[Mary229]

I consider post-covid cruising like a brand new Apple iPhone.  If you want the newest version you need to pay.  If you don't want to pay for the new version then wait a year and prices moderate.  The cruise lines have much catching up to do, improvements to pay for and new regulations to deal with.  As in any business the customer pays for all of that, that is how the world works.  

[iancal]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I consider post-covid cruising like a brand new Apple iPhone.  If you want the newest version you need to pay.  If you don't want to pay for the new version then wait a year and prices moderate.  The cruise lines have much catching up to do, improvements to pay for and new regulations to deal with.  As in any business the customer pays for all of that, that is how the world works.  

Absolutely.  Plus, in the longer term cruises will have to compete with other travel options.  Especially those cruise lines that want to attract families.

 

No doubt some of the strategy around attractive FCC's and gift cards during the no sail period was predicted/ built in on higher prices through to when those FCC expire.

 

We are in no rush to cruise.  Uncompetitive offerings(to other travel options) in the short term will push us to other travel options. 

 

 Alternatively we could be pushed away from the mass market lines towards  premium or luxury product because we perceive that the difference in price is greatly outweighed by the increase in value to us.   We do care about the logo on the funnel or the color of the hull.  For us it is all about the product today.

Edited June 17, 2021 by iancal

[DirtyDawg]

5 hours ago, gerryuk said:

Seems to me that there are 2 good reasons prices are up, and its not because of "pent up demand".

Cruise lines are putting up prices hoping that seasoned cruisers (many on this board) will pay up. If they then cancel the cruise they will do everything to get those who have paid up to transfer to a later cruise.

Another reason for price hikes is occupancy. Cruise lines know that when they start up they will only be able to sell cabins with much reduced occupancy, hence hike the prices and get those who pay up to part pay for all those empty cabins. 

Reduced capacity due to reduced occupancy is a reduction in supply. Couple that with "pent up demand" = higher prices. Cruise lines, or any other business which has pricing power, doesn't set prices and 'hope' the consumer will pay that price. They consider the demand and supply factors, do marketing research, and then act accordingly. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[SelectSys]

14 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Reduced capacity due to reduced occupancy is a reduction in supply. Couple that with "pent up demand" = higher prices. Cruise lines, or any other business which has pricing power, doesn't set prices and 'hope' the consumer will pay that price. They consider the demand and supply factors, do marketing research, and then act accordingly. 

Absolutely - a redaction in supply leads to higher prices.  Likewise, an increase in demand raises prices.  Adding both factors together suggest that prices are going even higher. 

 

Some graphs below to help visualize the phenomena of shifting supply and demand as it relates to changing prices: 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by SelectSys

[DirtyDawg]

17 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Absolutely - a redaction in supply leads to higher prices.  Likewise, an increase in demand raises prices.  Adding both factors together suggest that prices are going even higher. 

 

Some graphs below to help visualize the phenomena of shifting supply and demand as it relates to changing prices: 

Great visuals!

 

What's next? A discussion on cost push vs. demand pull inflation? 😁

 

 

 

Great visuals!

 

What's next? A discussion on cost push vs. demand pull inflation? 😁

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

Some graphs below to help visualize the phenomena of shifting supply and demand as it relates to changing prices: 

 

Good visuals.  They remind me of Econ 201.  

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

Great visuals!

The power of internet search tools!

 

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

What's next? A discussion on cost push vs. demand pull inflation? 😁

Not from me.  However, my non-professional gut suggests we are returning to the 70's with stagnant growth and high inflation.  I am waiting for the current president to bring back Jimmy Carter's sweater and tell us to expect less.

 

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Good visuals.  They remind me of Econ 201.  

That's pretty much where my economics career ended!

[rkacruiser]

13 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

That's pretty much where my economics career ended!

 

🤣🤣🤣 

 

I had a choice of 2 of three social science courses to take:  Sociology 201, Political Science 201, and Econ 201.  I took a look at the text book for Econ 201.  That was enough for me!  

 

 

Your post provided a really good laugh for me.  Thank you!  

[DirtyDawg]

14 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

🤣🤣🤣 

 

I had a choice of 2 of three social science courses to take:  Sociology 201, Political Science 201, and Econ 201.  I took a look at the text book for Econ 201.  That was enough for me!  

 

 

Your post provided a really good laugh for me.  Thank you!  

You chose Sociology or Poly Sci over Economics 201? 🤯 

Didn't you know economics were always the best and most fun courses on campus 🥳 

...... 

 

😁

 

 

 

 

 

[Joebucks]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:24 AM, gerryuk said:

Seems to me that there are 2 good reasons prices are up, and its not because of "pent up demand".

Cruise lines are putting up prices hoping that seasoned cruisers (many on this board) will pay up. If they then cancel the cruise they will do everything to get those who have paid up to transfer to a later cruise.

Another reason for price hikes is occupancy. Cruise lines know that when they start up they will only be able to sell cabins with much reduced occupancy, hence hike the prices and get those who pay up to part pay for all those empty cabins. 

 

What an interesting argument against supply and demand by explaining why it's supply and demand 

[Spif Barwunkel]

Discretionary spending, just like any other budgetary concern, is a lifetime of learning, is it not? Financial concerns require hindsight as well as foresight and the ability to recognize where, in the total pecuniary scheme of things, you will comfortably fit. Make no mistake, no matter how keen your judgement, luck and happenstance play a crucial role in your ongoing economic well-being.

 

Indeed there are folks who will have to adjust their discretionary spending, for any number of reasons. However, there are those who will not have to modify their spending at all due to financial concerns. Probably more people than you think. In all cases this is not because of an abundance of wealth. Rather, it could be due to life’s education process and how well people learned the lessons lived.

 

Prosperity is different things to different people.  All piggy banks are not equally full. But within the boundaries of where our finances place us - at any given time – we should know how to responsibly spend our money. Whether it’s more on entertainment/travel or life’s necessities, it will get spent. And, cruising will see lots of those dollars.     

[DirtyDawg]

29 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Discretionary spending, just like any other budgetary concern, is a lifetime of learning, is it not? Financial concerns require hindsight as well as foresight and the ability to recognize where, in the total pecuniary scheme of things, you will comfortably fit. Make no mistake, no matter how keen your judgement, luck and happenstance play a crucial role in your ongoing economic well-being.

 

Indeed there are folks who will have to adjust their discretionary spending, for any number of reasons. However, there are those who will not have to modify their spending at all due to financial concerns. Probably more people than you think. In all cases this is not because of an abundance of wealth. Rather, it could be due to life’s education process and how well people learned the lessons lived.

 

Prosperity is different things to different people.  All piggy banks are not equally full. But within the boundaries of where our finances place us - at any given time – we should know how to responsibly spend our money. Whether it’s more on entertainment/travel or life’s necessities, it will get spent. And, cruising will see lots of those dollars.     

I hope people have learned during their lives that 'life's necessities'  like food, shelter, debt payments etc. are actually non-discretionary expenses. Discretionary items like entertainment/travel, including cruising, need to be considered only if there is money left over after non-discretionary expenses are met. Sadly a lot of people have never learned that lesson. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

Good summary - however,  as shown by the sample of the cruise market which speaks up on CC,  there are a fair number who can barely afford cruising as it has been priced — and who are likely to drop out of the market, at least temporarily, when hit by tax increases (including those which pass through in their gas and heating oil and rent expenditures;  general inflation which outpaces their income; and stock market reverses.

 

p.s. We are now in an environment where tax increases are a virtual certainty, where inflation is now seen as a virtual certainty, and the stock markets are almost certainly at an unsustainable level:  meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut.

[reeinaz]

6 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

You chose Sociology or Poly Sci over Economics 201? 🤯 

Didn't you know economics were always the best and most fun courses on campus 🥳 

...... 

 

😁

 

 

 

 

 

I majored in Econ 🤓🤓

[DirtyDawg]

1 minute ago, reeinaz said:

I majored in Econ 🤓🤓

More like 🥳🥳

😉

[DirtyDawg]

15 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Good summary - however,  as shown by the sample of the cruise market which speaks up on CC,  there are a fair number who can barely afford cruising as it has been priced — and who are likely to drop out of the market, at least temporarily, when hit by tax increases (including those which pass through in their gas and heating oil and rent expenditures;  general inflation which outpaces their income; and stock market reverses.

 

p.s. We are now in an environment where tax increases are a virtual certainty, where inflation is now seen as a virtual certainty, and the stock markets are almost certainly at an unsustainable level:  meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut.

We had a Federal budget up here in Canada a couple of months ago and I was shocked that some of out taxation goodies, like no capital gains on the sale of our primary residences, and our tax free savings accounts were left alone. I'm not expecting those to survive intact next year and my marginal tax rate, already close to 50% will likely be heading north too!   I'm just hoping we don't turn into what the 1966 Beatles song, The Taxman,  referred too. (Google it.)

 

The only thing I would add would be; "meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut"  unless they take actions to manage their financial affairs appropriately. 

[iancal]

I believe that this is very simple.

 

If you believe that cruise prices are too high simply vote with your feet and with your wallet and don't buy a cruise.  Not much different than any other product or service.

[Mary229]

Just now, iancal said:

I believe that this is very simple.

 

If you believe that cruise prices are too high simply vote with your feet and with your wallet and don't buy a cruise.  Not much different than any other product or service.

Same with political action. If you don’t like the economic policy then vote the guys out. 

[Spif Barwunkel]

32 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Good summary - however,  as shown by the sample of the cruise market which speaks up on CC,  there are a fair number who can barely afford cruising as it has been priced — and who are likely to drop out of the market, at least temporarily, when hit by tax increases (including those which pass through in their gas and heating oil and rent expenditures;  general inflation which outpaces their income; and stock market reverses.

 

p.s. We are now in an environment where tax increases are a virtual certainty, where inflation is now seen as a virtual certainty, and the stock markets are almost certainly at an unsustainable level:  meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut.

Dare we ask, in some cases is cruising a necessity? Never mind the cost. For those folks who live with constant debt will a few bucks more on a monthly credit card payment make a difference? That is a lifestyle, knowing and accepting that you'll never catch-up. 

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Same with political action. If you don’t like the economic policy then vote the guys out. 

The problem with a democracy is the fact that all one has to do is convince  about 60% of the electorate that the richest 40% can be made to pay for everything that 60% wants.   This may be why very few democracies last more than 250 years without having to be substantially reorganized.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

The problem with a democracy is the fact that all one has to do is convince  about 60% of the electorate that the richest 40% can be made to pay for everything that 60% wants.   This may be why very few democracies last more than 250 years without having to be substantially reorganized.

There are a variety of voting options, a popular one is known as voting with your feet. ( this is a lighthearted off topic comment)