I'm pretty sure the dress code has changed

[Victoria2]

9 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

One wishes that were the true case. Sadly there are those who want to "experience" the fine dining in the main dining rooms while not contributing to the overall ambiance which makes the main dining room what it is. A place for fine people in dresses and at bare minimum jacket, dress shirt and tie (slacks and shoes of course) Once the passengers no longer dress as such, the ambiance is lost and the fine dining rooms no longer carry the level of interest that one pays the Cunard premium for.

Smiling is always a good start to the day and I'm smiling, so thank you.🙂

 

Ambiance is an interesting word. When dining, for me it depends on the venue and usually means the atmosphere created by the background music, the surroundings   the attentive staff and with the gentle buzz of my fellow diners enjoying the evening. Being lucky enough to travel very well air, land and sea, on Cunard we get the benefit of a beautiful, more intimate restaurant and its ambiance is very much part of our enjoyment.. 

 

So why won't a jacketless person affect my enjoyment? 

 

Because I don't gauge people on their appearance. I  take people as I find them and value them for their person. I also have enough faith in my fellow diners to know they will adhere to what is acceptable but to be frank, given the choice of dining with a suited and booted but tedious fellow passenger or one who is great company but doesn't wear a jacket either for all non formal evenings or on occasions, I know which one I'd prefer to dine with. 

 

Dressing for dinner is a delight and we shall continue to keep up 'our end', whatever the dress code may change to and whether we sit with fellow diners in shirt sleeves or like my husband, a jacket with an occasional tie depending on the shirt worn, we  will enjoy all the evenings on Cunard.

 

 

 

[Victoria2]

43 minutes ago, tacticalbanjo said:

I'm 34 and my husband is 36 and we've notched up 10 trips with Cunard over the past 6 years. We've always worn our regular jeans, t-shirts, trainers during the day and never felt out of place. We've always had a great time (which is why we keep coming back for more) and met some fantastic people. Don't be put off Cunard by the dress code police because it is a fantastic line.

 

I would say that we're some of the dressier at night but not the dressiest because some people really do go for it. I wear nice dresses on smart attire nights whereas a lot of women do seem to wear more casual separates. 

I agree with your comment and as a daytime jeans wearer, would say I too dress above the required evening dress code including [very] high end separates on a couple of formal evenings as most dresses don't suit me. They are far more elegant than many dresses, just in case anyone thinks separates are  a bit of a no no. 🙂

[tacticalbanjo]

53 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I agree with your comment and as a daytime jeans wearer, would say I too dress above the required evening dress code including [very] high end separates on a couple of formal evenings as most dresses don't suit me. They are far more elegant than many dresses, just in case anyone thinks separates are  a bit of a no no. 🙂

Definitely separates aren't necessarily more casual than dresses but I've seen a lot that I would describe as being on the more casual end of the scale. I've seen more than a few dresses that I would say the same about!

[Victoria2]

10 minutes ago, tacticalbanjo said:

Definitely separates aren't necessarily more casual than dresses but I've seen a lot that I would describe as being on the more casual end of the scale. I've seen more than a few dresses that I would say the same about!

Oh I too have seen what one might term less than stylish  ladies' evening wear, both separates and dresses. Luckily, it's not a fashion parade and  we don't judge. 🙂

[Victoria2]

I agree. Respect is very important. There are no hard and fast rules to a flying dress code so I guess it's what you're used to. I have been  flying First or Business [booked, not upgraded] by choice for decades and and dress down for comfort and ease but I still respect the crew and the overall flight, just as the crew, both air and land respect me in booking said flights and providing them with an income

 

Respect works both ways. Following the 'rules' is showing current respect. Demeaning those who do so and  don't measure up to a perceived level is showing disrespect.

[jimdee3636]

3 hours ago, kohl1957 said:

Respect.

 

Not often used as a word or an act anymore. But it's one of the reasons one dresses to suit the occasion, the venue, your fellow diners or participants, and the people who work hard to provide the experience or service.

 

Like the crew.  It would follow that on all these "smart attire" nights that the crew might change into something equally less formal. Indeed polo shirts. Or end wearing white gloves to serve afternoon tea when too many folks are coming in wearing athletic shorts. Even backpacks.  It always astounds me that the very same people who think wearing a polo shirt to dinner, on a sea day, just assume the crew should still be formally attired, the tables beautifully laid with fine china, silver and linen when they look as if it's the 19th hole. And yes, that lowers the ambiance, the tone for everyone.  It says "you're not worth it". 

 

The last time I flew on British Airways, I got upgraded to First Class and, as always, wore a jacket and tie... the lady at check-in at LHR actually was surprised (and this was First!) and said "I just want to say thank you for dressing and respecting what we try to provide."  I hadn't even thought of that angle.  It goes back to.... Respect.

Another aspect of "respect" that I think is worth mentioning: the lack of respect that a man shows to his wife when he refuses to take the trouble to dress as well as she does in the evening. The only thing more depressing than to see a guy dressed like a bum when his wife has clearly made an effort to look nice, is knowing that she either doesn't care or has abandoned all hope.

[Windsurfboy]

You can't compare planes to cruise ships. 

 

It makes sense to dress for comfort on a plane, it makes no sense to wear a jacket and tie in business or first. Even in the day I try to lie down and get some sleep , and at night you wear the pyjamas they give you. So being  casual is not showing  lack of respect on a plane. 99% of business and first passengers are casually dressed. It seemed an odd comment from the check- in Lady. 

 

However a  cruise ship with a dress code is different. Respect is obeying the dress code. Dressing above the dress code is something anyone is entitled to do, but it doesn't mean they are beinv more respectful. 

 

Back to Cunard. 

 

Dress for a man. The vast majority of passengers who go to the bother of taking a jacket for smart attire nights , will find it easier to have more formal nights and a more casual smart attire code.  It will just mean a few extra shirts but no jackets to pack.  If  you have 4 formal nights a week, then the atmosphere of a cruise will be smart , even if the intervening nights are casual. Indeed it will be nice to have a contrast.

 

[majortom10]

I had it confirmed to me by PM from Cunard on Facebook last week that the change in dress code of lowering the number of formal nights and changing other nights to Smart Attire (no jacket required) is a permanent thing and not temporary just for the Seacations around the UK. The reason they gave was after feedback "it is what the customer wants" which were her words not mine and time will only tell if many men ditch their jackets and wear only shirts/trousers.

[Windsurfboy]

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

I had it confirmed to me by PM from Cunard on Facebook last week that the change in dress code of lowering the number of formal nights and changing other nights to Smart Attire (no jacket required) is a permanent thing and not temporary just for the Seacations around the UK. The reason they gave was after feedback "it is what the customer wants" which were her words not mine and time will only tell if many men ditch their jackets and wear only shirts/trousers.

 

Lowering  number of formal nights,  I presume means one a week down from 2. 

Not worth the bother of taking DJ. Plus if jacket  not required . Cunard no different to any carnival line.  

 

Again for the right intinerary and timing we would still use Cunard, but if there were other cruise lines offering similar, where's Cunards USP. 

 

To my mind a mistake. When Carnival/Cunard say it's what the customer wants, do they mean the niche Cunard customer,  or the mass cruise market customer.

 

 

[majortom10]

1 minute ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Lowering  number of formal nights,  I presume means one a week down from 2. 

Not worth the bother of taking DJ. Plus if jacket  not required . Cunard no different to any carnival line.  

 

Again for the right intinerary and timing we would still use Cunard, but if there were other cruise lines offering similar, where's Cunards USP. 

 

To my mind a mistake. When Carnival/Cunard say it's what the customer wants, do they mean the niche Cunard customer,  or the mass cruise market customer.

 

 

All I know is my future cruise on QE for 14nts the formal nights have now been reduced to 3 instead of 4 according to My Cunard.

[PORT ROYAL]

20 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

When Carnival/Cunard say it's what the customer wants, do they mean the niche Cunard customer,  or the mass cruise market customer.

 

 

Think you’ll it was a homogenised computer survey programme, encompassing the views of all the Carnival Group clients.  The predicted outcome would have been obvious, even to the cerebrally challenged at Carnival.

Think this may be just a COVID Carnival moment.  If the Formal Evening reductions extends into the new brochure, one will personally add additional Formal Evenings.   One declines to be dumbed down by Carnival.  

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

Think you’ll it was a homogenised computer survey programme, encompassing the views of all the Carnival Group clients.  The predicted outcome would have been obvious, even to the cerebrally challenged at Carnival.

Think this may be just a COVID Carnival moment.  If the Formal Evening reductions extends into the new brochure, one will personally add additional Formal Evenings.   One declines to be dumbed down by Carnival.  

 

I think Cunard will regret it if they abandon their USP and small loyal niche market. Even if only 5% want formal then it more than enough to fill Cunard ships. Carnival has plenty of mass market lines, why make Cunard another.

 

However I don't find the idea of wearing formal attire when everyone else is in casual  appealing. So I  will look even more seriously at other lines either smaller luxury ships, or bigger ships with the ship within a ship concept. 

 

My Capetown to UK in 2022 was cancelled,  have QM Capetown to UK leg in 23 , and FCC from cancelled cruise to use. So will see how these experiences pan out before booking again with Cunard.

 

 

[foodsvcmgr]

Windsurfboy you are exactly correct, the appeal of formal dress on Cunard is that one is participating in the overall experience with the vast majority of other passengers.

Being in a tiny minority while somewhat self fulfilling is not really enjoyable.
 

[Lakesregion]

45 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Windsurfboy you are exactly correct, the appeal of formal dress on Cunard is that one is participating in the overall experience with the vast majority of other passengers.

Being in a tiny minority while somewhat self fulfilling is not really enjoyable.
 

True   for the formal nights but one can still upgrade the "not so smart" rest of the cruise with a jacket dress style shirt and tie. I always wear such when traveling as it is to me more comfortable than sticky jeans and t's and oddly enough when there is a line and few cabs or luggage haulers those that are better dressed get the nod.

 

And this solo passenger has found that being attired above the bottom line does attract a more interesting crowd. One can only gleen so much information from those who work the night shift at the pretzel factory etc.

[Victoria2]

7 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

True   for the formal nights but one can still upgrade the "not so smart" rest of the cruise with a jacket dress style shirt and tie. I always wear such when traveling as it is to me more comfortable than sticky jeans and t's and oddly enough when there is a line and few cabs or luggage haulers those that are better dressed get the nod.

 

And this solo passenger has found that being attired above the bottom line does attract a more interesting crowd. One can only gleen so much information from those who work the night shift at the pretzel factory etc.

 

I would hope your distasteful comment about a night shift worker would be ignored by everyone, but no, it's gleaned a like. Thank the Lord I have never come across anyone who would verbalise such thoughts and never on Cunard, and I speak as one who has dined with Princes [literally] and the homeless [literally]. I would never, ever prejudge or make such a statement and if a Pretzel factory night shift worker is good company, I'd be honoured to be in their company just as we would the Cunard Celebrity speakers we have dined with onboard [we must be half decent company if the Maitre'd has seated them with us for the whole trip!!].

 

We popped into a garage one day, on a whim, and test drove a rather fast car. I was in true garden scruffs as we hadn't intended to stop anywhere en route, just a country drive in a nice day.. As my husband signed the purchase form, I asked the salesman why they had let two very casually dressed people test.  His reply 'never judge people by how they look, we'd miss millions of pounds of sales if we did, everyone who walks through our showroom door, is a potential customer''. Well it worked for us and that was five very fast cars ago.

 

As I have replied to you on this subject before, Lakesregion. It's not the attire which would attract cabs or porters, it's the confidence with which one comports oneself. I expect, therefore I receive. Never fails for us, even in my jeans [I don't wear tees].

 

 

 

 

[Colin_Cameron]

14 hours ago, majortom10 said:

The reason they gave was after feedback "it is what the customer wants" ...

Odd. This was the same reason they gave when they insisted there was no demand for single cabins. There was no need for the extra expense. Then, what was the first major change to each of the ships just a few years later? Retrofitting single cabins into spaces not designed for, or with the utilities for accommodations. At a much higher cost than getting it right first time. Had they made a mistake? Of course not. They simply decided to improve the choices available to solo passengers.🙄

 

And the same reason that Queen Victoria cabins were built without drawers. "The customers don't want them." "There's no need for them." Even by the Maiden Voyage, when they finally talked to some real passengers, or the passengers talked to them (loudly), they knew they had to then spend months with shoreside workers aboard, living in passenger cabins, retrofitting drawers into every cabin on the ship. A mistake? No, just another improvement for those ever demanding passengers.

[Victoria2]

Excellent news Colin. Cunard do backtrack. There might be hope this dress code 'customer led' variation might be 'customer led' back.

 

One can only hope.🙂

[majortom10]

Noticed a lot of corporate and hospitality companies use the excuse form feedback it is what the customer wants. It is just an excuse to install changes that they as a company want and use that excuse knowing that the customer cannot argue because they dont know whether it is true or not.

[Colin_Cameron]

5 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

Excellent news Colin. Cunard do backtrack.

Oh no. They never backtrack. Management (not just Cunard) never backtrack. That would imply they had got something wrong. They just announce a further change and claim it as another improvement.

 

Best example was a former employer of mine. All staff appraisals were on a scale of 1-5. It was then decided to simplify this to 1-4. Within weeks it was clear that this wasn’t flexible enough but we couldn’t go go back to 1-5 so the solution was 1, 2+, 2, 3 and 4. See? Much better, isn’t it.

 

[PORT ROYAL]

The thought provoking postings have made one change tack on “temporary COVID”
First consider the Carnival Executives as potentially a bunch of numpties and sycophants.

As previously stated, think this is a bean saving exercise by Carnival Executives, who will receive a fat bonus for saving beans.  Therefore, they will not make “improvements” by spending beans, thereby suffering loss of bonus, then (possibly most importantly) their league position in the numpty/sycophant butt kissing line.

Is the removal of Formal nights undertaken to improve the special ambiance/experience of Cunard for current/new clients, or to save beans?  
It would be considerate and courteous for a Carnival Executive to write specifically to all repeat sailing Cunarders (not all Carnival Group cruisers), for their feedback.

Feel the price differential between a Formal and Casual evening dinner would be a few dollars, say about $20.00, so why not increase a Cunard prices by $25.00 per 7 nights?  Many will pay the additional, additional premium, as previously identified, as we are already paying a Formal price premium to sail Cunard.

The next round of Formal tinkering by Carnival will push Cunard into Princess/PO land.

 

 

 

[Yaldi]

Carnival UK executive is soon to change. Simon Palethorpe is leaving for Haven and Sture Myrmell will be taking over Carnival UK including responsibilities for Cunard in the interim. Could be a help or a hindrance regards further changes?

 

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/cruise/new-boss-to-head-carnival-uk-as-simon-palethorpe-departs

[Windsurfboy]

16 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

oddly enough when there is a line and few cabs or luggage haulers those that are better dressed get the nod.

.

 

When there is a line it is only good manners to wait for your turn never mind what you are wearing.

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Feel the price differential between a Formal and Casual evening dinner would be a few dollars, say about $20.00, so why not increase a Cunard prices by $25.00 per 7 nights? 

 

The next round of Formal tinkering by Carnival will push Cunard into Princess/PO land.

 

 

I've  never  noticed any difference in cuisine between formal and non formal nights. The food every night should be good enough to justify dressing up. So I  don't  think less formal nights saves money.

 

I just think it's  misplaced idea to attract a wider selection of people.

 

At 3 formal nights per fortnight  ,  Cunard seems to already be same as P&O ( 2 per week  on medium ships ,  1 per week on big ships) . Like you I worry it might go down further. If it drops to one per week then why bother packing DJ . On the other hand I'm  not going to pay for grills and eat in buffet. 

 

 

[PORT ROYAL]

One is going to be pragmatic and await the new brochure.  If the Cunard ambiance and experience is diminished by Carnival, then other options will be seriously considered.

One’s Cruise journey commenced with Cunard, through Princess, Celebrity, RCL et al.  All were jettisoned when the dress codes changed downwards.  So it could be only fitting to end where we started.

One knows Carnival will deem our approximately140/150 nights per year as a small raindrop in the ocean and not missed, but unfortunately our generous cash gratuities could be by the wonderful staff.   Maybe the new breed of Princess/PO clientele will be just as happy to spread the joy

[Dermotsgirl]

9 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

I would hope your distasteful comment about a night shift worker would be ignored by everyone, but no, it's gleaned a like. Thank the Lord I have never come across anyone who would verbalise such thoughts and never on Cunard, and I speak as one who has dined with Princes [literally] and the homeless [literally]. I would never, ever prejudge or make such a statement and if a Pretzel factory night shift worker is good company, I'd be honoured to be in their company just as we would the Cunard Celebrity speakers we have dined with onboard [we must be half decent company if the Maitre'd has seated them with us for the whole trip!!].

 

We popped into a garage one day, on a whim, and test drove a rather fast car. I was in true garden scruffs as we hadn't intended to stop anywhere en route, just a country drive in a nice day.. As my husband signed the purchase form, I asked the salesman why they had let two very casually dressed people test.  His reply 'never judge people by how they look, we'd miss millions of pounds of sales if we did, everyone who walks through our showroom door, is a potential customer''. Well it worked for us and that was five very fast cars ago.

 

As I have replied to you on this subject before, Lakesregion. It's not the attire which would attract cabs or porters, it's the confidence with which one comports oneself. I expect, therefore I receive. Never fails for us, even in my jeans [I don't wear tees].

 

 

 

 

I have to say, a newcomer to Cunard, this thread has been an education. Who would have thought that, if you don't wear a Homburg hat and a cravat, you are deemed to be either a gardener or a pretzel maker.

 

Also, I'm sure I've seen the term 'casual fifth columnist' used. The mind boggles about that one.

 

Fortunately, I'm taking more notice of your sensible posts, as I'm sure you are more representative of Cunard cruisers, that some of the pompous stuff I've had the misfortune to read.